Nawaz Sharif means business to curb energy shortages..

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: Nawaz Sharif means business to curb energy shortages..

Good to see that PMLN ( guess no other opition ) is taking this issue very seriously and is determinted to tacle the problem. Just hope that their think-thank implement a long term solution and strategi. Its quite shocking to read that the big fish dont even pay their electr. Bills. Baap ka maal samjha hua hai...

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Re: Nawaz Sharif means business to curb energy shortages..

Quit all the crying.. do you have solutions to the present grave energy problems. There are good decent people working on these solutions.. instead of criticizing at this stage, it would be much better if you could give some solutions.

Let's give some time to them. There are millions presently out of work due to this problem..

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Its so funny watching 'energy experts' coming on TV these days and dishing away free advice to the new government. Most of them have been part of previous governments, WAPDA, bureaucracy, etc. who blame everything on the 'past', apparently ignoring the fact that they were part of the 'past'.

One interesting guy kept repeating that we did not do proper long term planning and that's why we are in the mess. A few mins later, anchor started his question like this... "Dr. Xyz, you have been part of planning commission......"

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(Please don’t get offended, I am busy so I rather say it the way I will tell my close friend.)

You guys are mad, high on democracy.. Playing it like a Game.. like democracy can over wrote every other code.

Here is the books I have on my bed side
The Theory of Heat Radiation: Amazon.ca: Max Planck: Books

A Heat Transfer Textbook: Fourth Edition: Amazon.ca: John H Lienhard V, John H Lienhard IV: Books

Now get this, we are so intellectually barren, that we pick up every thing from west and shove it in the country.
What we are essentially saying, we are going to live in concrete jungles, with temp over 50, turning every structure to live heater, “NOW you are the Govt COOL our concrete jungle down!!”
I have a news for you, we can suck the whole pakland out of resources, but we wont be able to keep pakland cool for too long, down the road we are going against the nature.
Do I need to tell you who wins when fight against the nature ?

To make things more interesting, the my mother’s city where we loved ground water little less then aab-y-zam-zam, in only 15 year, now you have to dig 300 feet down to get clean water.

Dude population that dumb, I can pretty much predict what is coming…
Personally I have no problem we farmers back home, we are the one who are going last the longest.

If we don’t enlighten our population + don’t plan way, way ahead, we wont have many people riding on metro buses.

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Re: Nawaz Sharif means business to curb energy shortages..

Agreed!

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dude, what are you saying? can someone please translate : (

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Re: Nawaz Sharif means business to curb energy shortages..

Check how Govt do business.

Funny thing if you take pakistani egreezi news paper economy section.
Keep the cutting and then compare the stories over few weeks months, its all written there.

Never was a secret!!

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Re: Nawaz Sharif means business to curb energy shortages..

dude dobara perh lo..

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Re: Nawaz Sharif means business to curb energy shortages..

Dude..

They say the taste of pudding is in eating.. You can read a thousand books but never learn to swim unless you get in the water.

And you think if you have read some theory books you have become an expert on energy solutions for Pakistan..

There are financial aspects. Available resources.. the unit cost of producing electricity from solar resources. I am already doing some solar solutions and have worked on bio fuels for captive requirements of my plants. As on today they are very expensive solutions which are more of a luxury than a real solution for our country’s energy problems.

And your impression that everyone is dumb and you are the enlightened one.. my be it’s true. We can only believe your impression if you post some real viable solutions with their financial impacts.. Until then these are just claims of an over confident arrogant individual who has nothing real to contribute..

We have a crisis in hand where millions are out of work due to energy shortages because the energy dependent production resources in this country are grossly under utilized. These are installed production resources.. and were giving tangible livelihood to millions. We have to make them running again.. taking concrete steps.. and we are not talking philosophy here. We are talking economics.

You can keep your predictions to yourself.. I have great faith in this country. On personal level I am doing business in this country and have found the young people very intelligent and hard working.. I have great faith in them.. I am not a sadist cult follower who thinks only messiah of my personal choice will come and do miracles in this country.

We have elected a new government recently.. I would like to give them a chance to solve this grave problem.. instead of criticizing them even before they have taken oath to govern us..!!!

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Re: Nawaz Sharif means business to curb energy shortages..

Pakistan has a bright energy future - James Trevelyan

The writer is a professor in the School of Mechanical and Chemical Engineering at The University of Western Australia. He visits Pakistan regularly.

Despite the current ongoing energy shortages and loadshedding, Pakistan has energy wealth that could be unlocked just by thinking differently about electricity distribution.

Electricity supply is capital-intensive engineering. Pakistan built the existing electricity supply network with the help of large loans on favourable terms from the World Bank and other international institutions. In addition, Pakistan has benefited from the generosity of Saudi Arabia in providing low-cost fuel. It has also had the benefit of large hydroelectric generating plants at Mangla, Tarbela and other dams: they generate electricity with no ongoing fuel costs.

As fuel and capital costs rose and the proportion of cheap hydro-power was reduced, Pakistan decided to shield its people from the real cost of electricity generation with generous subsidies. The country benefited from the temporary growth that resulted from these policies. But it could not last.

Fast forward to 2012, with a population addicted to cheap energy. Like Australia, much of Pakistan’s power-generation and distribution infrastructure was built in the 1960s and 1970s. It is now reaching the end of its operating life and needs to be replaced. The large dams have filled with river silt, reducing their water capacity for electricity and irrigation.

Now the government faces some hard choices. Unable to collect enough money even to pay for fuel, government-owned distributors have deferred maintenance and infrastructure investment needed to meet demand. Overloaded power lines burn up to 20 percent of the electricity that is generated. Influential consumers and cash-strapped government organisations refuse to pay their bills and others steal electricity, further reducing revenue. As more people connect air-conditioners, loadshedding is now endemic, and energy subsidies at around 10 percent of government spending help drive inflation.

Power prices seem to be rising fast. However, after allowing for inflation and currency devaluation, real electricity prices have fallen for most people. Even for the wealthy, real prices have remained static, discouraging efficiency. Pakistan uses twice as much electricity per unit of GDP as Australia.

The country is also running out of domestic gas supplies, further compounding electricity problems, and necessitating gas loadshedding in winter. Like electricity, gas has been priced well below international norms, encouraging wasteful consumption.

There is no easy way out. The government will have to double electricity prices, perhaps more, to cover the cost of fuel and rebuild infrastructure. Faced with similar decisions, even pro-business conservative state governments in Australia have chosen to continue subsidies. With only a slim majority, the PML-N government will be reluctant to raise power prices and put voters off-side.

Yet, there are solutions without having to raise prices. Pakistan is rich in energy but it is not where many people think. The coal reserves under the Thar desert lie deep under highly permeable aquifers, almost completely inaccessible with today’s technology, and are destined to remain there for the foreseeable future.

Pakistan’s greatest energy wealth comes from the sun, much of it absorbed by agricultural crops on some of the most fertile soil in the world. It also has large land areas suitable for solar generation. It has hydro-electric infrastructure that could be used for pumped energy storage, enabling daytime solar-generated electricity to be stored for night-time consumption. Strong and reliable winds along the Arabian Sea coast and over the Himalayas could be used for power generation. How can this vast renewable energy potential be unlocked?

The cost of photovoltaic solar panels has fallen dramatically in the last few years and solar generated electricity has now reached grid parity in many countries. That means the cost of solar electricity is around the same as their grid power prices, but not in Pakistan where current subsidies keep grid power (when it’s on) far below the cost of solar electricity. Grid power prices would need to rise to Rs25 per unit to make solar and wind power feasible. With government institutions paralysed, that’s not going to happen soon.

In reality, electricity costs in Pakistan have already exceeded this level, but few people realise that. Loadshedding forces up the cost of electricity for everyone. The real cost of a running an efficient diesel generator, the cheapest 24 hour alternative power source, is about Rs50 per unit after allowing for fuel, maintenance, labour, loan markup and depreciation. Most generators are running at low efficiency. For anyone using a generator, therefore, the average cost of power in Lahore with 12 or more hours of loadshedding is already well above Rs30 per unit.

However, the real cost is even higher because of indirect costs from loadshedding. With the power predictably off for many hours a day, illegal connections can be made in darkness with little chance of electrocution or detection, reducing revenue and imposing extra costs on everybody. The cost of lost production makes it more difficult for businesses to pay their bills. Workers earn less because their employers cannot make effective use of their labour without continuous electricity. Loadshedding increases the temptation to ignore electricity bills, particularly when you need a backup generator in any case.

Pakistan grows around three times more food than it eats, far more than an industrialised country. Much of the excess is lost due to power interruptions that cause food to deteriorate in storage and processing. Unlike in Australia, families need to buy fresh food every day and cannot keep leftovers without a reliable electric fridge. Power interruptions also damage appliances, further increasing costs for consumers. These costs are shared by everyone and, as a result, Pakistanis are actually paying much more for electricity than they think.

How can we move from the current loadshedding chaos to reliable and continuous electricity supplies? Here is one way it could be done:

The government could legislate to provide licences for qualified private ‘power wholesaler’ companies to provide a guaranteed 24-hour electricity service in special zones at a negotiated price, around Rs25-30 per unit. This would be less than the current real electricity cost that includes running a generator and other opportunity costs.

Initially, most customers would be businesses because they better understand the real cost of intermittent electricity supplies. As an incentive in the early stages, it might even be worth offering fair market value to purchase private generators that would no longer be needed. Wholesalers would sign up customers for a fixed time, after which customers could switch to another supplier if they can get a better deal.

Initially this would be implemented with local, parallel, ‘high quality’ electricity networks, using separate cables, properly engineered connections, and electronic meters with theft prevention measures designed into the network. The power wholesalers would buy their electricity from Wapda at around, say, Rs15 a unit, providing a large increase in its revenue for the power supplied. Wapda would not incur the cost of collecting revenue, nor would it suffer revenue losses. Of course, it would have to guarantee supply continuity with compensation for interruptions.

Now, here’s the exciting part. At Rs25-30 per unit, solar electricity from roof top panels becomes economically attractive. The solar panels also shade roofs, reducing the need for air-conditioning. Solar-powered chillers could refrigerate stored water, which could be used to provide night cooling with minimal electricity. The wholesalers could add to their revenue by hiring out solar panels to their customers.

Gradually the scheme could be extended to shopping centres and larger commercial districts and eventually to residential areas as consumers realise the benefits of 24-hour uninterrupted power. By being exposed to higher meter prices, consumers would be more careful with power consumption, reducing waste. Food could be stored safely, reducing processing and storage losses.

In the meantime, the government can avoid unpopular decisions to raise energy prices on the existing supply network. Savings and efficiencies would gradually allow loadshedding to be reduced. The government would be gradually freed from crippling subsidy payments, and the people would emerge from their current nightmare of wasteful underemployment caused by loadshedding.

As the savings work their way through the economy, Pakistan could be re-energised, awakening the nation to a bright and far more prosperous future based on efficient use of limitless renewable energy, backed up with responsible use of fossil fuel energy.

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Re: Nawaz Sharif means business to curb energy shortages..

:D meny to panga hi ly lia post ker ky.

like 10 6x6 solar cell sy, gher me 1/2 tubes or fan chal sakta hy...
Not too expensive.

We as nation need to know there is thing called sun, and its HOT. so don't make rooms exposed to sun 3 sided and then put AC to trying to keep it cool. Not smart.

Then engineers need know there is thing called sun, and its HOT. so make thing to use the energy. Like sterling pumps.

And as for as, govt & politics goes. All I have to say is, things don't have to be complicated to have tremendously powerful.
Simple thing like honesty would turn the thing around. So I want honest people to rule. Not too much to ask?

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its nearly impossible for pakistani consumer to get solar cell, Solar cell manufacturing machine is not too too expensive, I wonder when some businessman would
buy and manufacture it in pak.
Labour so cheap and easily available, if solar cell were available as they are in rest of the world, no one would be complaining about electricity shortage.
I bet people would go off the grid very quickly.

But as of 2013 june, its still dewany ka dream…

wind energy is only usable in karachi/quetta, rest of the country is not windy enough.

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Re: Nawaz Sharif means business to curb energy shortages..

If not already in place then they need to do three things:

Direct Debit bill payments
Smart Card Top Up style bill payments
Online bill payments

Link the activation of the energy lines to be directly linked to centralised switch houses and hold those houses responsible for any mishaps. They need proper auditors who cannot be bought too.

Also, they need to introduce tax/levy or license for use of high energy devices - 9 times out of 10 the load shedding is because of the rate of usage which too fast ... They need to restrict the rate somehow and may be put physical measures in place that trip the houses energy supply when too much is being drawn at certain times. This means a basic amount of energy will continue to be supplied.

Yeah ... Nawaz or anyone ... It can only be done in a huge concerted and organised way ...

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Re: Nawaz Sharif means business to curb energy shortages..

Pehly koi ye to btaye k ATM’S k upar jo 2 ton k split AC lgy hoty hain un ko nonstop bijli kahan sy milti hy? :hmmm:

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Re: Nawaz Sharif means business to curb energy shortages..

Peace marinakhan

ATMs are a combination of physical security and electronic security. It means when it is not being used then it conserves energy. If there are attempts to break into them then more electrical energy is drawn as well. They don’t rely on electricity to remain secure … If switched off they behave like safes.

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Re: Nawaz Sharif means business to curb energy shortages..

Absolutly Agree with ur post

I came back on 11th May after spending 2 weeks in village (Grandparents Place) near the Sargodha

We moved to Germany some 25 years ago and since 1996 i’ve been 8 times to Pakistan and that’s what i noticed sofar:

  • Ground contamination is reaching horrendous levels - PPL throwing all kind of Waste into the sewerage system and that chemical cocktail getting into the rivers which feed the irrigation networks
  • The Cities are growing at a rate that it’s impossible to maintain a halfway working municipal system
  • Air Pollution is on the lower side since a lot more CNG-Powered Vehicles are on the road but at what cost???
  • Ravi and Chenab had almost no running water - few years back almost no farmer in Sargodha Area had a Powered Waterpump installed to for irrigation but almost everyone has done - Means Ground Water Level will decrease at an alarming rate and pair this scenario with a rapidly rising population and it’s perfect recipe for Distaster
  • I’ve noticed how easy PPL waste electricity even though it’s only available for 4-6 hours - Lights r on during day time - Fans, TVs are switched on even no one sitting in the room and the absolutly don’t care one iota

I’ve installed a 1.2KW (Dail Production between 9KW-10KW) Solarenergy System with Battery Storage and requested them to use it properly but to be honest i’ve no hope for it to be maintained properly :frowning:

Things have gone from bad to worse and after so many years i’ve little to no hope for it to get any better unless PPL (not their socalled leaders) are shaken up by a Disaster of enormous propotion which i hope doesn’t happen

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Re: Nawaz Sharif means business to curb energy shortages..

Good luck to PMLN. Mian saab, hun teyaan naal.

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Re: Nawaz Sharif means business to curb energy shortages..

did you make your own solar panels? if so were you able to get solar cells in pak, easily?

I tried so much, my brother told me only way to get cells is to fly uae and buy them there, in pak only
built solar panels were available.
Not only that, solar panel dealer give run around pakistani style, if you inquire them about solar cells.

I eventually send them packing, every thing got choora choora, they only received one unbroken cell :(

It seems like, in pak, some on almost make an effort that common people don't get their hands on solar cells.

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Were they mishandled during shipment? :konfused:

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if you ever held them, they are very, very stiff and very fragile,
I put them in same packing they were shipped to me + solder iron and tabbing(connecting) tape.

So one took it for me, when they got it, every thing was broken.

:smiley: now I have a plan, I am going to buy big round shape vessel, and put them in it.