India 120/8
and more importingly Tendulkar is gone once again he showed he is not a match winner
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
Zaheer and Kumbley are playing i know they can throw their bats so lets wait and see.
[This message has been edited by Nakhrey Wali (edited July 09, 2002).]
Match is getting exciting
India lost!
Great batting from the tailenders at the end.
They started out such great fashion in this tournament and now heading towards typical Indian performance.
And once again, Sachin Tendulkur couldn't handle the pressure, eventhough he played very well.
Sehwag showing his brilliance, Indian bowlers failed compleltey today.
One more match before they play thr final.
Tendulkar's stature only grows in my eyes.
What I said at the start of this series that India is playing one bowler short plus a handicap in the shape of Agarkar. They need to sort this out.
[This message has been edited by ehsan (edited July 09, 2002).]
Uh !! the guy comes at 2 down stays there till 8th down and watches his team mates doing a ‘TU CHAL - MAI AAYA’ Number. To think of Tendulkar making 100 runs in the company of our tail is like building 8th wonder, After all it is the same tail which couldn’t score 18 runs required at the Madras Test after Sachin was out for 136 as 7th wicket.
Indian batting and bowling was pathetic today.
AK
Umair I’ll have the replay on it’ll be fun to watch some indian bowlers dhulai
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
I mean it’ll fun to watch some great shots by ENG batsmen
Thats what we were talking about, Sachin is not a match winning player. Lemme explain by your own example which you gave above in bold. If he were a match winning batsman he would have finish the match instead of getting out at 136 and depending on the tailender to score the rest. Get it?
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif
Now don’t come up with records of similar stuff made by PAK cuz we are talking about Sachin NOT PAK
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[This message has been edited by Question (edited July 09, 2002).]
Actually... each player is valuable to his team in any way or form.
Without that individual, you would be nothing.
For example, some individual scores 100, but gets out. He has done enough for the team, and should be praised apon. He has done his part evenly, now it's upto the rest of the team to contribute to best of their extent.
With that theory, Tendulkar is a match winner. He contributes, even though he gets out. His presence, helpful tactics, stradegy, experience, has played enough of a part for the team.
You whole squad is a match winner in their different ways they contribute (as long as they do their best).
I wanted India to loose badly because India was taking England for granted and everytime they have failed in the finals taking the oponents for granted. This match might give them the heart beat required for the finals.
If tendulkar is not a match winner,then no one in the world is a match winner. If one guy is expected to make all the runs, then why do we need other folks ? Have him face all the balls, give him all the money and thats it.
Why dont you tell us about some of the players who you think are match winners.
AK
^ Javed Miandad
Good that you gave his name - Check this match out
http://statserver.cricket.org/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/1970S/1976-77/N Z_IN_PAK/NZ_PAK_ODI_16OCT1976.html
Javed was playing very well, Pakistan needed to make 199 to win the match Javed was out on 191 (7th Wicket), Pakistan lost the match by 1 run. Javed should have stayed till last and won the match for Pak, Since he was not able to do so - HE IS NOT A MATCH WINNER.
AK
[This message has been edited by Asif_k (edited July 10, 2002).]
You can certainly do that if you want to. Its your teadm do what eva u like who cares.
I told you not to bring in PAK cuz we are talking about Sachin but nah you never read every single word.
I thought we are discussin PAK vs IND where the heck this NZ comes in. Oh well you have to bring in other team records against PAK to help you get by indian performance
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[This message has been edited by Question (edited July 10, 2002).]
Well ofcourse NO ONE can win EVERY SINGLE MATCH for his country so dont bring a match or two in between.
If you look at his whole carrier and compare it with Tendulkar’s he has won way more matches for Pakistan ALONE in compare with Teldulkar. Tendulkar is no way near to him in this competition
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
Now its your turn, so whats your next argument for the sake of argument ?
The discussion that one player should be overall responsible to see that the team wins a match is not feasible one in cricket as it is a team game and not an individual one. Sachin by his own standards is going through a lean period. In a batting line up like India's others should be contributing and it is Yuvraj who has been winning the matches for India by his positive contribution by both bat and ball. We dont really expect Shoaib or Waqar or Wasim to single handedly win the match each time but collectively contribute towards a win. That's what India needs to do as well when batting. Sachin alone cannot win it every time for India, even though I must admit he does not distinguish himself when it comes to playing for his team. He should have stayed at the crease yesterday and I feel he got out to a poor shot.
I can bring you at least 45 instances in ODIs where Pakistan batted second and lost (with Javed in the Team). I know one batsman can’t win all the matches, thats what I have been trying to say.
Okay Lets try that. I will assume that when a team bats second in an ODI the batsmen are unde more pressure to perform.
Javed Played total of 233 ODIs, Out of which Pak batted second 100 times, it won 55 and lost 45, so javed failed(since he wasn’t able to win the match) at least 45 % of times, Out of the remaining 55 matches pak won Javed crossed 50 - 14 times and 100 once (27 %). Assuming those scores as match winning Javed won matches for pakistan only 27 % times.
Sachin Played total of 293 ODIs, Out of which India batted 2nd 148 times, it won 80 and lost 65, so Sachin failed (Since he wasn’t able to win the match) at least 44 % times. Out of the remaining 80 matches India Won sachin crossed 50 - 19 times and 100 - 14 times (40 %). So Assuming those were match winning runs, Sachin won matches for India 40 % times.
PS :- Javed was and is a great batsman and I have great regard for his batting. In no way I mean to show Javed in a poor light. My only intent to prove here is one Player can’t win matches for his country on his own no matter how good he is.
AK
Asif, you are a genius.
On a more serious note, did you know that I have won every single match that I have played in, with my local team. Therefore, I'm a matchwinner. Right, Asif?
So, you're wrong, there does exist a matchwinner in this world and I'm the one.
BTW, please keep the sharm-o-hayaa wala lecture to yourself.
And you are a match winner.
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There is a Saying ‘Anyone can Play TABLA on his A$$’. Your case is very similar to that.
Too Bad, they didn’t select you in Paki team. Perhaps they were afraid of Pak winning all the matches.
You also keep your frustrations (which is because of the Impotence of PCB) to yourself instead of taking it out on Sachin or Indians. Everytime you do that I am gonna give you real dose of your own medicine.
AK