Myth of Yazid b Muawiyah's Innocence

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Myth of Yazid b Muawiyah's Innocence

I was expecting similar deviated kind of response from yuor side since I knew You cannot have guts to curse your own ancestors who were involved in the murder of Imam Hussain yet they are the reliable narrators of your principle Hadith books, that is typial Munafiqat.

Ok, you have one another chance, say amen to this if you indeed think that you have nothing to do with the murder of Imam Hussain ans his Sahaba:

“I am not from the followers of descendants of those who killed imam Hussain, may Allah’s curse by upon those and also on those authors who accepted Hadith from those killers and also on those who have faith on such books”

PS: If you want to debate on mouring then open a separate topic then I will which 'highly respected lady' of your religion conducted a majlis of beating her self along with other ladies over the death of someone.

Thats what I said, the segment of Shias which later changed their name and today are known as Ahle Sunnah wal Jamat were the killers of Imam Hussain and this can be evident from the fact thta they will die but not curse the killers of Imam Hussain!!

[QUOTE]
the prophet SAW was not doing matam, or the other practices of shias. i'd call this bidah but the quran says something else
[/QUOTE]

Who cares what you call what, you even call Prophet one having inpure blood of Kufar running into his veins, so anything is expected from your side. As for mourning, I have already made a statement to that effect above, and btw, prophet at least wept on hearing the news of Imam Hussain's and his Sahaba's murder, at least follow 'Sunnah' to that extent only then you will have some right to comment on the next stage of mourning i.e. Matam :P

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Re: Myth of Yazid b Muawiyah’s Innocence

boynice, ahul sunnah are the muslims whose religion was perfected by Allah SWT in the time of RasoolAllah.

for anyone interesting in the treachery of the shias, they should view the two links ive already provided

however they were brief, watch this it explains muslim relationship with Ali ra and the circumstances around shahadat of husein ra. also the link between them people and todays shias who claim to be the real shias. again these are known and accepted facts.

kufi hame bulaa rahe hain:

  1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-Za2br3Gik

  2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcvB0f5zHd4

  3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vrrw50ULvEA

of 8 parts total

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Re: Myth of Yazid b Muawiyah's Innocence

Good to see you Sheraz buddy :)

The Love for Ahle-bayt and respect for Sahaba is part of our *Ghutti * ( for Sunnis)

The little difference is that for shia, it is just Love for Ahl-e Bayt only.

For Sunni's we learn from early age about bravery, wisdom, and his unshakable composure for Deen Islam, Hazrat Ali Karam Allah wajhu and his family deeply loved and respected among sunni people. There is no question about it. You can check our books our gathering and discussions. You must have this info already. I never heard sunnis ever had any secret gatherings for religious discussions.

On the other hand, you said :
quote-
Yazeed and muwaiya were in the league of their own -unquote

I second that. Mostly sunnis would try to erase Muwiaya from this statement but I will not.
Muwaiya committed a crime and his followers never abolished it, up until Hazrat Umar Bin Abdul Aziz(ra).

On the other hand Khulafa-e-Rashideen were largely on right path. There might be mistakes on some occasion but overall they were open for rectification coming even from commoner. It is evident from scores of stories where common individuals ( muslim men and women) raised finger on Hazrat Umar(ra) and pointed out his mistakes/wrong rulings. He never punished them but instead corrected his footings. These stories are quite unique and we hardly ever hear about similar just ruler in other huge empires of this world.

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Re: Myth of Yazid b Muawiyah's Innocence

so we have acceptence from shia and sunni that the shias killed husein ra. for anyone that did not watch the vids - the temporary motive was to kill husein ra for the same reason the kwarij killed ali ra and suspected of killing hassan ra. husein ra was prepared at the very least to go back or give bayah, and if that happend he would insult the kwarij like ali ra insulted the kwarij (by accepting truce with muawiya ra.) also the bags of letters of invitation would get out, and thus the familly of husein ra was killed by 'shias'.

'they cry for us, then who killed us'

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Re: Myth of Yazid b Muawiyah’s Innocence

bro bring me the names of the leaders of the ashraf of kufa involved in Karabala then we can talk about this issue.As I pointed out several of them were former supporters of Ali, but these people had also supported Aisha and Muawiyah at other times.
All suporters of Ali of that time cannot be lumped togather as complicit in killing of Hussain, its quite childish to assume that

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Re: Myth of Yazid b Muawiyah's Innocence

I second ( or third) that
however biggest crime of muawiyah is destroying the caliphate as it was formed by abubakr/umar and ali.He turned the meritocracy into kingship and took bayt ul mal as his personal wealth.He killed many of the pious salaf and instituionalized oppression.

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Re: Myth of Yazid b Muawiyah’s Innocence

You agai ntactfully avoided my challenge but the challenge will follow you like curse till the day of qayamah:

Btw, bring proof of the existence of a sect ‘Ahle Sunnah wal Jama’ during the time of Holy Prophet (s). (lol, deem it yet another challenge).

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Re: Myth of Yazid b Muawiyah's Innocence

Is this the very reason you lick the feets of those killers of Imam Hussain yet its only us who send curses on those killers? Isnt it an irony?

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Re: Myth of Yazid b Muawiyah's Innocence

I will ask Maulana Ishaaq to do a detailed lecture on Kharijis.......

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Re: Myth of Yazid b Muawiyah's Innocence

Lets all pray " O ALLAH send ur curse on Killers of Imam Hussain and his family"

Now lets see how many of u will repeat it after me and we can come up with a conclusion

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Re: Myth of Yazid b Muawiyah's Innocence

^ he already did, on the last lecture of the series on caliphate of ALi b Abitalib KW
He says that they were well intentioned but misguided and if there was no clear hadith in favor of ALi and against khawarij many of Ali's loyal companions would have had serious doubts about fighting them.
You can see this in Kitab Al-Irshad as well, the incident involving Jundab b Abduallah/Zuhayr azdi r.a

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Re: Myth of Yazid b Muawiyah's Innocence

Code red, coded some very interesting points. I'll add my two cents worth.

Sunni and Shia have very negligible differences. While some of the rituals are different, the soul and the theme is same. I think it's high time for us followers of sunnat to hold onto our identity really tight. And dont let any forces (whether they are attacking from within or attacking from without) divide us Muslims into sects, and cut the roots of Muslim ummah. Muslims are stronger together, and we cannot be swayed by any ideology, no matter how righteous that ideology appears, and no matter how appealing is the veil of that adversary.

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Re: Myth of Yazid b Muawiyah's Innocence

^ fundamental difference is the institution of imamate thats an insurmountable obstacle

other things are of trivial importance

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Re: Myth of Yazid b Muawiyah's Innocence

your saying this, and i was saying this when i didnt know the differences. this shia thing is a organised attack on islam. if you stand with those who curse and make takfeer on the companions and ummul momineen radiallahu anhum, argue against the quran and ask a mythical ali for help, you are not a part of muslims (sunnah) - i didnt make this rule, but this is a rule, there is wisdom in it

if the shias merely prefered the leadership of ali ra, then what you are saying would be possible

and just look at this thread, the proven and accepted view of shias killing husein ra is infront of us. they only deflect blame by saying it was you, or it was the shias but we are better shias, our pledge is genuine. when it is clear those early kufis prayed behined ali ra and fought in his army.

theres untold amounts of corrupt shi'i beliefs, we cannot accept them as islam. you see we follow Allah SWT from the quran, sunnah of the prophet SAW, and the consensus of the true believers -the companions inc complete ahulbayt ra. anything else is falsehood. shias fall into an anti islamic category

i condemn the attackers of husein radiallahu anhu, he attained SHAHADAT and i congratulate husein ra. may Allah SWT curse the killers of huseins massoom familly rah.

tawheed teaches me that the WRATH OF ALLAH SUBHANAHUWATA'ALA IS ALREADY UPON THOSE PEOPLE

love of husein ra is from sunnah but to overdo it is falsehood and to underdo it is not haq

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Re: Myth of Yazid b Muawiyah's Innocence

Shardmanny bhai,

Sunnites are descendants and/or followers of the Companions of Prophet Mohammed (saw).

Shiites are the descendants and/or followers of the Family of Prophet Mohammed (saw).

Whichever route you choose, the Sunnat is same, the teachings are same.

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Re: Myth of Yazid b Muawiyah's Innocence

u mean until u werent exposed to the Nasibi propoganda?

[quote]
this shia thing is a organised attack on islam.
[/quote]

it is isn't it!..........we blow their mosques.......we stop them from visiting the Prophet of Islam and his progeny........we keep sending the suicide bombers their way because this is a pre-emptive "Jihad"..........

[quote]
if you stand with those who curse and make takfeer on the companions and ummul momineen radiallahu anhum,
[/quote]

search the pages of history to this day and u will find making takfeer is a speciality of certain schools within the Sunni sect and not ours...........u can not see an elephant in front of nose.....

[quote]
argue against the quran and ask a mythical ali for help, you are not a part of muslims (sunnah) -
[/quote]

it is ur najidi ilk for whom Prophet SAWW foretold that they will read the Quran like parrots but it will not go past their thorats.............ur dear ill mannered and racist caliph Umar bin Khattab's was fond of asking the same Ali AS for help and prayed not to see the day when he doesnt find Abul Hasan to help him............

[quote]
i didnt make this rule, but this is a rule, there is wisdom in it
[/quote]

and this from a follower of bin baz who said that the world is flat until a saudi prince hoped in a space ship and saw it round...........

[quote]
if the shias merely prefered the leadership of ali ra, then what you are saying would be possible
[/quote]

Ali AS is the leader and nobody could take away what Allah SWT gives............

[quote]
and just look at this thread, the proven and accepted view of shias killing husein ra is infront of us.
[/quote]

no, the only thing in front of us is the result of the filthy blood of Muawiya and his daddy..........

[quote]
they only deflect blame by saying it was you,
[/quote]

nobody has ever said it was "you"............we blame Yazid and his gang...........its a different story if u take urself to be part of Yazid...........

[quote]
or it was the shias but we are better shias, our pledge is genuine. when it is clear those early kufis prayed behined ali ra and fought in his army.
[/quote]

again u r just repeating the rants of Saudi propagandanist, terror master shahi muftis............

[quote]
theres untold amounts of corrupt shi'i beliefs, we cannot accept them as islam.
[/quote]

well nobody wants a certificate from u..............

[quote]
you see we follow Allah SWT from the quran, sunnah of the prophet SAW, and the consensus of the true believers -the companions inc complete ahulbayt ra. anything else is falsehood.
[/quote]

yes, just like the 10,000 other sects of Islam........

[quote]
shias fall into an anti islamic category
[/quote]

may Shias of Yazid and Muawiya fall where their masters fell..........i.e. the pits of Jahannum for the hideous crimes they committed and destroyed the religion of Islam and that is why we have confused kids like u..........

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Re: Myth of Yazid b Muawiyah's Innocence

they cannot take-in these verses

And the first to lead the way, of the Muhajirin and the Ansar, and those who followed them in goodness - Allah is well pleased with them and they are well pleased with Him, and He hath made ready for them Gardens underneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide for ever. That is the supreme triumph. pickthal

**And stay in your houses. Bedizen not yourselves with the bedizenment of the Time of Ignorance. Be regular in prayer, and pay the poor-due, and obey Allah and His messenger. Allah's wish is but to remove uncleanness far from you, O Folk of the Household, and cleanse you with a thorough cleansing. **pickthal

nussairi where are you?

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Re: Myth of Yazid b Muawiyah's Innocence

i think u r oversimplifying

sunnis and 12er imamis dont even agree on the defination of the "family of the prophet" or "companion"

let alone anything else !

these issues are secondary most important issue is imamate which the core belief of imami shias

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Re: Myth of Yazid b Muawiyah's Innocence

just try!

[quote]
And the first to lead the way, of the Muhajirin and the Ansar, and those who followed them in goodness - Allah is well pleased with them and they are well pleased with Him, and He hath made ready for them Gardens underneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide for ever. That is the supreme triumph. pickthal
[/quote]

-Do you know who the first Muhajireen and Ansaar are? When was the fisrt migration made during Prophet's mission?

-Notice the word 'Minn' which is translated as "of the" or "from".......i.e. certain people of Muhajireen and Ansaar and not all.

-Read the very next verse 9:101 which is suffice to shatter the point you are trying to make...
(9:100) "And from among those who are round about you of the dwellers of the desert there are hypocrites, and from among the people of Medina (also); they are stubborn in hypocrisy; you do not know them; We know them; We will chastise them twice then shall they be turned back to a grievous chastisement"

[quote]
**And stay in your houses. Bedizen not yourselves with the bedizenment of the Time of Ignorance. Be regular in prayer, and pay the poor-due, and obey Allah and His messenger. Allah's wish is but to remove uncleanness far from you, O Folk of the Household, and cleanse you with a thorough cleansing. **pickthal
[/quote]

Who do you you think this verse was revealed for? What is this verse saying?

[quote]
nussairi where are you?
[/QUOTE]

right here waiting for u my bud :)

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Re: Myth of Yazid b Muawiyah's Innocence

actually if u want to look at it that way then we r different right from the concept of Tawheed where Sahi Bukhari contains narrations that make a complete mockery of the concept of Tawheed and Prophethood......nauzobillah