MYTH of Indian Secularism incompatible with HinduismILIAH

http://www.newindpress.com/Newsitems.asp?ID=IEK20020519125400&Title=Southern+News+%2D+Karnataka&rLink=0

Spiritual domain of Hinduism above law:
***************************************Iliah

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Kancha Ilaiah

UNI

BANGALORE: The Indian legal system allowed the spiritual domain of Hinduism to operate in the country above the law and the state despite proclaiming to be secular in its ideological framework, eminent political scientist Kancha Ilaiah says.

“This is where caste finds its survival base in Indian society”, he said in a paper presented during the consultations on the role of law in combating casteism and communalism at the National law school of India University. He said “Casteism is construed in the spiritual realm of Hinduism. Unless it is tackled within the sphere of Hindu religion it is difficult to eradicate it even in socio-economic spheres in the modern period.”

Ilaiah said the post capitalist modernity was intrinsically linked to establishing the supremacy of secular law that could bring all spheres of life into its governance. Though political democracy and Christian religious institutions have come to coexist with harmony, Hinduism as a religion refused to function under the supremacy of the constitatic state, he alleged that the BJP’s operations from the position of power and the systematic undermining of the secular and constitutional law by the Sangh Parivar in relation to Ram mandir issue had betrayed the theocratic designs of all of them.

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Bik Gaya Jo Woh Kharidar Nahi Ho Sakta

Kancha Ilaiah can kiss my b***.
He is just another so-called ‘Low’ Caste Scholar.
The deal is that they get seats in Engineering and Medicine for getting 10 out of 100, while a Brahmin kid doesn’t even if he gets 90 out of 100.

Why? Because we are supposed to have ‘Oppressed’ them 1,000 years ago!!!

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satavahana

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There is affirmative action in USA .Has not Collin Powell risen to the top most position to be presidential candidate almost .

I think you speak for yourself how intolerent HINDUISM is .A dalit is no less than you brahmin that we as muslim hold true as believe in the spirit of EQUALITY irrespective of ones ability colour race ethnicity.That is embodied in the American constitution also but only 1300 yrs AFTER ISLAM

I think a professor with less skill if he is able to perform his job satisfactorily is more to be commended than an A student .Its like a handicapped racer racing against perfectly healthy competition & finishes the race.

I hope you get my point that to be somebody when no one expects you to be is far greater than SURE SHOT …smartA$$

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ukh:

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ukh:


Diamonds Are Made Under Pressure

Present President of India os from Lower caste .FYI.

iNDIANS FAIL IN CONFORMING TO MODERN IDEALS OF SECULARISM,EQUALITY,TRUTHFULNESS,ONLY THING THEY HAVE BETTER IMAGE THANMUSLIMS BY HIDING THERE BIGOTERY FANATISCISM & ANCIENT VESTIGEAL PRACTICES IN REPHRASING IT IN pOLITICALLY CORRECT WORDS

“HINDUISM IS SECULAR BY DEFINITION”

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“MUSLIM DONT WANT CHANGE” THEREFORE WE CAN KEEP OURSELF FROM CHANGING

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pROBLEems to me is that Hindus in India have reached their
tolerance limit. I was just thinking if all of you have a theory on why it
has happened. I know well educated intellectual people in India, who are
associated with the RSS and VHP. They don’t agree with the violence and
killing but they do agree that the Congress has brought this on the
country
by pampering the minorities too much. These are people who beleive that
India should have a “Uniform Civil Code” - doesn’t matter what religion
youp
belong to. I have personally NEVER understood why we don’t have one. These
are people who say that even though BJP has gone too far with the temple
issue, its better than having Congress at the center. These are people who
feel that inspite of being the “majority” religion, hindus were worse off
in
India…’

Let me decode. The two main issues that preoccupy you are the ‘pampering
of minorities,’ and the absence of a Uniform civil code. First and
foremost both are pet grievances of the Hindu right, which have, through
decades of successful propaganda-mongering, has seeped into the
consciousness of ‘moderate’ Hindus. The absence of the UCC is seen as one
way in which ‘minorities are pandered/pampered’: other ways being the ‘Haj
subsidy’, article 370 which guarantees special status to Kashmir vis-a-vis
land
purchase in the state, and the cultivation of the ‘Muslim vote bank.’
Apart
from this last point, which I shall return to below, the first few
concerns are directly based on the constitution of India’s provision for
Minority Rights in a country of uneven distribution of religiously-based
groups. IMO this was a sound and humanitarian agenda, guaranteed by some
of the most compassionate and right-minded people of that generation of
freedom-fighters and nation-builders, not least of all Dr Ambedkar. The
guarantee of minority rights in a pluralistic democracy is something that
all liberal political scientists agree is a just and desirable move. When
we contextualise this against the backdrop of Partition and the trauma of
Indian Muslims who chose to make India their home but were afraid of
stigma and insecurity (something that subsequent developments have only
borne out) then we can argue, IMO, even more strongly for the necessity of
these provisions.

However, that is the theory-in practice, things may not have turned out
quite the way our ‘founding fathers’ may have envisaged. Just like we may
agree on the principle of quotas but not the results in present-day
society. The average Muslim in India is neither affected by the presence
of the Haj subsidy (I have spoken to many on this issue, and they couldn’t
care less), nor by Article 370 (and by the way that has nothing to do with
Muslims, there are similar constitutional provisions for the North East,
only no one talks about them!).

The UCC is a more complex matter. As I think I have written earlier on
Sawnet, my own views on the matter reflect these complexities. In 1992 I
was all for the UCC as any uncomplicated liberal in the country would have
been. However I remember at a scholarship interview in Delhi in 1991 I was
pulled up by my bootstraps by ‘liberal’ Delhi intellectuals wondering how
I planned to ‘force the common code down the throats of your fellow
Muslims.’ After a few years, the Right Wing has hijacked the demand for a
UCC so effectively that it has put liberals of all religious affiliations
in a quandary.

The motives for the Sangh Parivar demand for a UCC are putting it bluntly,
the erosion of all minority rights for Muslims. The liberal demand would
have been, internal progress in the Shariat laws that must come from
within Muslims through enlightened judgements and negotiations between the
representatives of Muslim interests and the State. This did NOT happen in
the case of the infamous Shah Bano controversy when the State played along
with the most patriarchal interests within Muslims rather than with the
more progressive voices (I remember, though I was quite young, all the
Muslim women in my family and lots of friends and colleagues campaigning
against the Shah Bano ruling-they were on the front pages of the Calcutta
newspapers-but today all that is remembered is that no Indian Muslims
agitated against it).

In an article written some years ago, Prof Seema Alavi from JNU eloquently
lamented the fact that while enlightened reform of Islamic law was
happening in Bangladesh and Pakistan, Muslim women in India are trapped by
the hijacking of the demand for the UCC by the Sangh Parivar. To put it
bluntly again, if I know that what I would like for myself is going to be
used against me by some other, more powerful group, this will compromise
my own desire for that thing, because it will compromise in the long term,
my safety and security. The result is confusion and ambivalence on the
issue. I hope I am clear. As for why the UCC is NOT there in the first
place, it’s a long legacy of British colonial practice of formulating laws
for different religious groups, which the post-colonial state inherited as
part of the admin and legislative baggage. That’s another post though!

As for the ‘vote bank’ complaint, I find this the most mysterious of all.
Why, in a democracy, should groups not be allowed to vote the way they
want? all other forms of demand and supply are entertained-why not in the
arena of votes? Is the power of the vote not the only voice that the
citizen has? what is so heinous in exercising it the way s/he wants?
Again, my suspicion is that the problem is with numbers-Muslims are a
minority in India, but just large enough especially in certain regions, to
tip the balance. But more on this later if people wish me to explicate.

In conclusion, I would like to say that, in the context of the recent
horrifying events in Gujarat, and the insecurities and multi-layered
trauma that the Indian Muslim has to live with on a daily basis in OUR OWN
COUNTRY, I find the phrase ‘pandering to minorities’ disgustingly
inappropriate and in extreme bad taste.


Chin-o-arab hamaara
hindostaan hamaara
muslim hai hum, vatan hai saara jahaan hamaara

Interesting to see that outsiders are teeaching us about Affirmitive action.

Boy oh boy! Can Collin Powel become the President in USA? Nah!

But in India, there have been Presidents, prime ministers, chief ministers, defence ministers, railway ministers, finance ministers, parliament speakers, purely based on affirmitive action.

Fatimahji Assalam Alaikum

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You said…

.A dalit is no less than you brahmin <<

NO indeed. I never said anybody is “LESS” than me as a human being.
If they are NOT less than why don’t they take their exams at the same standards I do?

Anyway for the same job, if both of us give the same exam and I have to get 99 out of 100 to get a job and you need to get only 10 out of 100 what does that make you, “less” or “More” ?

Yes, I am a Brahmin but I think the system is screwed.

Generation of exploitation has given you generational ADVANTAGE of everythiong by the caste system instituted by forfathers looking after your INTEREST.

Now in order to revert you need to be DALIT ,which is not happening only some help to years of exploted individuals is being given


Interesting to see that outsiders are teeaching us about Affirmitive action.

Boy oh boy! Can Collin Powel become the President in USA? Nah!

But in India, there have been Presidents, prime ministers, chief ministers, defence ministers, railway ministers, finance ministers, parliament speakers, purely based on affirmitive action.

CAN A MUSLIM NO MATTER HOW GOOD BECOME PRIME MINISTER???

THERE IS NO MECHANISM IN YOUR SECULARISM FOR THAT BASED ON BRITISH PARLIAMENTARY DE MOKERACY

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“Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards.” – Unknown

:thumbsdown:

The only good thing about indian affirmative action is that it will fk their society up.

But DAMN! dont we have the same thing called quota system in Pakistan? shoot!


Returns of The Sword…

DECCAN HERALD
\http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/jun07/top.htm

	Friday, June 7, 2002 	

THEOCRATISING AND MILITARISING THE STATE

BJP?s baneful agenda

By KANCHA ILAIAH

The way in which the Bharatiya Janata Party executed its agenda in Gujarat and now moving on to wage war with Pakistan will have deeper implications to Indian State and civil society. It is not merely the problem of communalism versus secularism and war versus peace. The whole pre and post Gujarat process points to a direction of the Indian State slowly but surely getting theocratised and militarised. BJP as a political party has an ideological allegiance to religion and war, and not to economy and development. It is also planning to make the Indian State a war-mongering one. Ever since it came to power it has been projecting Pakistan as the Islamic enemy that needs to be crushed. BJP views the Indian State as Hindu State and thinks that all tensions between India and Pakistan are also tensions between Hindus and Muslims. Within the nation, communal carnages of Gujarat type and Kautilyan-type wars on the borders do not end terrorism but will only generate more and more terrorist organisations.

To theocratise the civil society, the BJP resorted to act of vandalism and pulled down the Babri Masjid in 1992. Before that event there was hardly any presence of Islamic terrorist groups in India. By destroying Babri Masjid the BJP and Sangh Parivar organisations set an agenda of religious civil war. If minority social forces like Muslims are pushed to the wall, they will choose guerrilla methods to fight back. With Gujarat kind of brutality every Muslim thinks of turning to terrorism.

Destroying democracy

Secondly, to threaten the whole Muslim world the BJP government took the initiative of producing a nuclear bomb. Out of mere fear Pakistan produced a counter bomb. Pakistan, an already weakened theocratic State, was responding in panic to India?s act. Buddha, Gandhi and Ambedkar ? three great champions of peace ? taught us not become the source of terrorism, communalism and war. But the theocratic, communal, casteist and war-mongering Hindutva thinkers like Kautiya, Golwalkar and Hegdevar taught the opposite. BJP is following the latter.

Over a period of time, the BJP quite decisively worked out the methods of deconstruction of democratic institutions and in the process, the central administrative structure began to be theocratised quite definitely. Theocratisation of the bureaucracy is only the tip of the iceberg. Once the Prime Minister?s office and the key ministries were in the hands of religious ideologues like Vajpayee, Advani, Murali Manohar Joshi, Uma Bharati and so on, no ally could stop the process of theocratisation of the State. Above all, behind the curtain of the cabinet the RSS sanchalks, sadhus and sanyasis are now in a position to handle the affairs of the State. BJP?s idea is to take the Indian State back to pre-British stage with a cult-based spiritual ideology.

Primitive order

No Islamic theocratic State will be a match to the Hindu brahminic theocracy which has the political culture of Kautilyan craftsmanship at the back of its operations. The brahminic theocracy is more retrograde because it sustains on social hierarchy and dehumanisation of working castes/classes. It does not allow social mobility within civil society. It does not even believe in cohesion of society as the Islamic societies do.

The BJP as modern political party does not believe in dismantling the caste system and establishing harmonious relations among religions. Nor does it want to modernise the State and civil society. It wants to theocratise all structures so that the social changes that had been brought about by the modern democratic State should be set back to primitive order. When the Central government and the national executive headed by the Prime Minister justified the planned carnage in Gujjarat where people were burnt alive, women raped, fetuses removing from the wombs of women, and property looted with the total connivance of its own wing within the federal structure, the system had shown definite signs of theocratisation. When the federal government justified a genocide of the kind that took place in Gujarat, because the victims belonged to a minority religion, it can also justify similar attacks on Dalits. The justification of the federal government is more dangerous than the act of brutality in a State or in a region.

A deliberately constructed cause of building a temple in the place of a demolished masjid became the cause of all our problems. This cause is a commonly agreed cause of the nation?s Prime Minister and the Chief Minister of Gujarat. This cause is related to the constitutional right of Muslims for the protection of their identity and their institutions. This in essence means the federal government itself does not recognise the constitutional line drawn on January 26, 1950. The constitutional line is that the pre-republic issues that have the nature of tearing that republic apart should never be brought into play after that date. That is where the BJP as political party does not have faith in this Constitution. This is the reason why it does not publicly talk of equal rights of all citizens including that of Dalits-Bahujans in all spheres of life. Such an affirmation of equal rights of all citizens goes against the Hindutva ethic.

In this ideological framework, leave alone the minorities, even Scheduled Castes, Scheduled Tribes and OBCs who are asking for equality will be the definite target in any brahminic scheme of things. Because, the enmity between capital owning/rich castes and classes and lower castes is as serious as that of the Gujarati Hindu capitalists/businessmen and Muslims. If it gets expressed between parivar forces and Muslims today (it got expressed between parivar forces and Christians earlier) in Gujarat, it will get expressed as against Dalits and OBCs elsewhere tomorrow. The State run by the BJP shall justify them as easily as it justified the attacks on minorities. This is the basic characteristic of Hindu theocracy.
The Congress corrupted the institutions, committed crimes like that of 1984, twisted the arms of opposition parties and committed many other political sins like imposition of emergency, but all those are not as dangerous as theocratising the State which moves in the direction of dismantling democracy itself. This was the essential difference between post-independence Pakistan and the Congress-ruled India.

Congress and BJP

But the BJP-ruled India sets many things into motion that compete with Pakistan. One among them is theocratising the Indian State in competition with the Islamic theocracy that exists in Pakistan. The difference between the Congress and the BJP is that for the Congress, Pakistan was an inimical State but it never treated Pakistani people as its enemies. The BJP, on the other hand, treats the Pakistani people as its enemies.

The Congress never tried to emulate Pakistan in terms of State pattern. At times it tried to emulate the Soviet Union, at times the Euro-American States. But the BJP, as a theocratic (not merely communal) party, lives with an enemy image of Pakistani people, as they belong to an enemy religion, but it is in love with the mode of theocratic State that the Pakistani rulers built with a blind vision of Islamism. The BJP?s whole ideology is constructed around anti-Islam. The minority-centred political vision of the BJP sees a solution in theocratisation of Indian State in Hindu mode. But unlike a Muslim theocratic State a Hindu theocratic State means that it is essentially a caste hegemonic State.

Hidden agenda

For a Hindu theocratic State the hidden agenda is to demolish the hopes of Dalit-Bahujans. Given the organised structure of Muslims and Christians, who are their open enemies, they can find defense mechanisms. Where is such a defense mechanism for Dalit-Bahujans? In fact, the greatest sufferers in a Hindu theocratic State would be Dalit-Bahujans. While working in friendly alliance with the BJP, Kanshi Ram and Mayavati should understand this direction of the BJP.

The way the BJP handled the Ram temple is essentially theocratic and the way it is handling the terrorism question is war-mongering. It never handled national issues from the point of view of constitutional legality. That itself is strong indication of theocratic and war-mongering thinking of the social forces sitting at the top of the government. Even in handling the Ayodhya issue the central leadership used the Supreme Court?s direction as a necessary evil. During that period, the State and the larger civil society were essentially treated as Hindu.

At every stage, that definite line between secular State and the Hindu religious community was/is rubbed off. In the context of Ayodhya, the way the Sankaracharyas, sadhus and sanyasis used the chambers of the ministers of the federal government is more than enough indication of theocratisation of the Indian State. In the context of Kashmir, the way the Sangh Parivar forces are talking the language of ?two eyes for one eye? and ?jaw for a tooth? shall prove to be most dangerous for the whole nation.

They would like to handle the question of Kashmir and Muslims from a position of Hindu hegemony. Communal carnages inside India and nuclear war with neighbours will lead to the end of India as much as the end of Pakistan. We must be aware of this danger in the near future.

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“One of the characteristics of healthy cultures is that they can poke fun at themselves.”