Re: Myth about winning 1965 War
Do not feed the troll.
This.
Didn't bother reading a single word of the OP.
Traitorous and clueless post of the highest order. Then again, this is coming from a guy who supports a party who is openly guilty of treason.
Re: Myth about winning 1965 War
Re: Myth about winning 1965 War
I know there are certain individuals in intense takleef and due to blind hatred make half-A statements. Below is a link to 1965 war with some news clips from international media at the time.
https://www.ispr.gov.pk/Indo-Pakistan%20War%201965%20-%20A%20Flashback.pdf
Bottom line whoever crossed the international border started the f…ing war.
No hard feelings but any one who has doubts or takleef please carry a tube (xtra large) of burnol… it helps 
Re: Myth about winning 1965 War
dawn made 2 big mistakes
Ist, timing is everything in life. while dawn has every right to publish any article and conduct open discussion about any controversial topic, publishing an article with such toxic heading one day before 6th of September is indeed a very cheap act. very cheap
2nd reason is actually much more serious. Dawn committed a serious breach of journalism by posting a heading which said **"Pakistan's claim of winning the 1965 Indo-Pak War, the 'biggest lie" **. Now this heading had pretty much nothing to do with with the article. The article was talking about fabricated history that is being taught in pakistan and there is only sentence about 65 war with no details provided as to why and how pak claim is a complete lie, yet dawn deliberately used that one sentence as a heading of article and demeaned and insulted pakistani nation .
Upon serious outburst from Pakistanis at twitter, dawn then changed the heading to the current one but the damage has been done. I like dawn but this is a very cheap act by dawn and needs to be investigated. there has been some serious allegations placed at dawn leadership
Re: Myth about winning 1965 War
What are you smoking. name any main city that the Indian army captured despite them heavily outnumbering Pak army both in terms of numbers and armaments. Even Lahore where they opened up the front to relive the pressure on Chamb and jorian sector they were unable to come anywhere near the outskirts. I lived 14 miles form wagah border and they never even reached my place. India's big attack on Sialkot was repulsed and they beat retreat from there as well. At best it was a draw.
badly lost? you need to read history properly.
I know it is a very sensitive issue. What was the outcome of this war? Can you explain here? What happened to economy of the country after 1965 war? Was Pakistan able to achieve what it was before war? The fact is that it was not India who started this war, but it was freedom fighters who were doing proxy war for many months before India started full war with Pakistan on western front. Some fought with velour, but in the end Pakistan did not achieve anything in this war, when dictator who started this war suddenly opt for ceasefire after 17 days. If Pakistan was winning why it had to ceasefire? We were never happy with this ceasefire then, and wanted to resolve Kashmir issue once for all. This was huge fup by the army then which paved way for breakup of the country in 1971.
Re: Myth about winning 1965 War
sach baat kehnay par itni jalti kyon hay.
The Politics of Privilege in Pakistan: Punjab’s Domination | Collateral Damage Magazine
Re: Myth about winning 1965 War
I know it is a very sensitive issue. What was the outcome of this war? Can you explain here? What happened to economy of the country after 1965 war? Was Pakistan able to achieve what it was before war? The fact is that it was not India who started this war, but it was freedom fighters who were doing proxy war for many months before India started full war with Pakistan on western front. Some fought with velour, but in the end Pakistan did not achieve anything in this war, when dictator who started this war suddenly opt for ceasefire after 17 days. If Pakistan was winning why it had to ceasefire? We were never happy with this ceasefire then, and wanted to resolve Kashmir issue once for all. This was huge fup by the army then which paved way for breakup of the country in 1971.
Ok bhai. India was and is saint and it is us who are rogue...ab khush?
Re: Myth about winning 1965 War
This.
Didn't bother reading a single word of the OP.
Traitorous and clueless post of the highest order. Then again, this is coming from a guy who supports a party who is openly guilty of treason.
hahahahahha. You seems to be a joker. :)
Re: Myth about winning 1965 War
Ok bhai. India was and is saint and it is us who are rogue...ab khush?
I am not talking about this. There should have been no war at all which could have saved Pakistan's economy, many lives and perhaps avoidance of breakup in 1971. I have yet see if any one has challenged the guy who was talking about defeat in 1965. If you think he is lying than prove it.
Re: Myth about winning 1965 War
No one here will agree with you on this topic as people are blind when they are fed up with lies for decades. They will not even listen to people who point out blunders made in East Pakistan by army and Pakistan Government over the period leading to 1971 disaster. The best they will come for 1971, it was only Bhutto who was responsible for 1971 defeat. So be ready for that.
Here comes an article, telling myths of victory from both the sides:
Are India’s plans to celebrate 1965 war ‘victory’ in ‘bad taste’? - BBC News
Here is what independent writers (including the autobiographer of Mr Jinah) said:
Retired American diplomat Dennis Kux: “Although both sides lost heavily in men and material, and neither gained a decisive military advantage, India had the better of the war. Delhi achieved its basic goal of thwarting Pakistan’s attempt to seize Kashmir by force. Pakistan gained nothing from a conflict which it had instigated.”
English historian John Keay: “The war lasted barely a month. Pakistan made gains in the Rajasthan desert but its main push against India’s Jammu-Srinagar road link was repulsed and Indian tanks advanced to within a sight of Lahore. Both sides claimed victory but India had most to celebrate.”
American author Stanley Wolpert: “The war ended in what appeared to be a draw when the embargo placed by Washington on US ammunition and replacements for both armies forced cessation of conflict before either side won a clear victory. India, however, was in a position to inflict grave damage to, if not capture, Pakistan’s capital of the Punjab when the ceasefire was called, and controlled Kashmir’s strategic Uri-Poonch bulge, much to [Pakistani president] Ayub’s chagrin.”
Re: Myth about winning 1965 War
It is not a case of lies it is the title that Pakistan lost badly that is being disputed, even the quotes you have above nowhere do they say that pak lost badly. Yes in 1971 we lost badly but to say that we lost in 1965 badly is just not true. India with all its might was not able to capture anything of significance and Pakistan defended its borders well. Remember it was BBC who broke the news from India that their army was at lahore gymkhana, that is how confident the Indian army was of capturing Lahore. 17 days later they were still at jallo moar on BRB canal having not moved an inch.
Like I said the war was a draw but considering that Pak was outnumbered and out gunned we can declare it a victory that our armed forces defended the borders well and kept India at bay.
Re: Myth about winning 1965 War
Muqawwee/Sach
you guys are confusing 2 issues.
why the wars in 65 and 71 started? what were political implications? what were repercussions? who gained how much? these topics have been discussed in detail on these pages and there any many guppies who are open minded enough to look into these debates objectively. i am the first one to admit we made many political blunders. and yes 65 war was a result of mindless military operation Gibraltar in kashmir. Kindly note that bhutto was a big supporter of operation Gibraltar.
but regardless of why the war started and what we gained out of it, another dimension is that did our army put a brave show in 65 war? now that is a totally different topic. and yes our army and brave jawans put a great show, scarified lives and stopped an enemy who was 7 times bigger. no one shd disrespect their sacrifices.
and today is a day when we are paying respect to those saheeds. do we need to discuss all blunders right today? do we need to declare maliciously today that pakistan lost the war miserably? we have 364 days to do all this…but no, for some people, you have to discuss all negative things right today.
like i said before, timing is everything, you dont go to a funeral and then start telling all bad things about the deceased one right there.
Re: Myth about winning 1965 War
Muqawwee/Sach you guys are confusing 2 issues.
why the wars in 65 and 71 started? what were political implications? what were repercussions? who gained how much? these topics have been discussed in detail on these pages and there any many guppies who are open minded enough to look into these debates objectively. i am the first one to admit we made many political blunders. and yes 65 war was a result of mindless military operation Gibraltar in kashmir. Kindly note that bhutto was a big supporter of operation Gibraltar.
but regardless of why the war started and what we gained out of it, another dimension is that did our army put a brave show in 65 war? now that is a totally different topic. and yes our army and brave jawans put a great show, scarified lives and stopped an enemy who was 7 times bigger. no one shd disrespect their sacrifices.
and today is a day when we are paying respect to those saheeds. do we need to discuss all blunders right today? do we need to declare maliciously today that pakistan lost the war miserably? we have 364 days to do all this.....but no, for some people, you have to discuss all negative things right today.
like i said before, timing is everything, you dont go to a funeral and then start telling all bad things about the deceased one right there.
phonex bhai
My objection for the mentality, who promote rosy picture of wars, when in fact no one got any benefit from any including 1965 war, which we glamourise. I was surprised to see a morning show yesterday, where an anchor was asking 6-7 years old children 'hamara dushman kon hai'? and children (in army uniform) replied 'India'. Is this justified celebration of sacrifices?
By the way, call me what anyone likes (from traitor to xenophobic to racist), but the fact is this time army is in position to glamorise this event more because finally they got balls to address fitnas created by themselves. Otherwise, you never saw such celebration (including gift of two days double sawari ban in Karachi) on Defence day. On one side you are celebrating the victory to defeat 7 times powerful enemy 50 years ago, and on other side you need to ban double sawari to celebrate the same. lols at such victories.
BTW, its more about glamourising current army chief in the name of celebrating 1965 war. The whole clifton area from Teen Talwar to Parke Tower is full of pictures of Rahil Sharif under the slogans '1965 ke heroes ko salam'. If you go ahead a little ahead, you will come to DHA where lies the disputed land for which Justice Jawad might want to sing today 'ae watan ke sajeele jawano, saare raqbe tumhar liye hain'.
Re: Myth about winning 1965 War
I know it is a very sensitive issue. What was the outcome of this war? Can you explain here? **What happened to economy of the country after 1965 war? Was Pakistan able to achieve what it was before war? **The fact is that it was not India who started this war, but it was freedom fighters who were doing proxy war for many months before India started full war with Pakistan on western front. Some fought with velour, but in the end Pakistan did not achieve anything in this war, when dictator who started this war suddenly opt for ceasefire after 17 days. If Pakistan was winning why it had to ceasefire? We were never happy with this ceasefire then, and wanted to resolve Kashmir issue once for all. This was huge fup by the army then which paved way for breakup of the country in 1971.
What did Europe achieve after Two Great Wars? All powers lost their imperial supermancy, suffered from absolutely massive economic, material and human losses. Despite huge losses and depressing legacy, Europeans nation even after 100 years still honour their brave soldiers and their sacrifices. This is what dignified nations and people do.
I'm sick and tired of some people's agenda to make Pakistanis forever feel guilty, disgraced, unhappy, defeated and undignified.
Then we have a stupid man called Imran who tells Pakistanis to look up to Germans and copy their success story. What a sick joke Immy. Pakistani and Germans in the same breath? Some Pakistanis would not be able match German sense of self respect and dignity even if they are born again. If only Germans had pathetic newspapers like Dawn and self hating intellectuals, maybe it would have driven three quarters of Germans commit mass suicide as how dare they lost both Great Wars, produced Hitler and Nazism, got divided and ruled by external powers, got bombed to oblivion. But Germans have far too much self respect and dignity to indulge in Desi style self wailing and self lamenting and self hating.
Pakistan celebrates 1965, not for winning, but successfully resisting aggression and invasion plan from an enemy 7xs their size. If Punjabi Army is so evil and bad, tell me what stopped oh so glorious and mighty Indian Army from conquering Pakistani towns and villages, and cities. They wanted to have tea in Lahore? If India was winning...why did they come to talks?
Honestly nothing ever positive is accepted from your kind. You lot probably still wail and regret the fact that Pakistan was created.
Pakistan is still an independent country.....after what what is happening in the Middle East and how external powers have wrecked colossal level of human tragedies and sheer destruction in far more prosperous regions, every Pakistani salutes Pak Army!
Re: Myth about winning 1965 War
Muqawee bhai, sariee dunya may yae hota hai. Chinese just celebrated their “victory” in the 2nd WW. indians are celebrating their victory in 65 war as we speak. UsA has its own military victory days. you do this to keep the moral of your nation high and more importantly to remember sacrifices of those (and of their families) who lost their lives. those who could have lived like us but decided to come under a tank for their motherland. one of my favorities from 65 is Major Ziauddin Ahmad Abbasi Shaheed …what a hndsome guy full of life who just got married but gave his life for his country. we need to remember our heros. it is important for any nation
In parallel, serious academic discussions should always be taking place to discuss strategic and other aspects of those wars. my only request is that we shd not confuse both.
and yes i do agree, that may allah save our country from any war… as it demands some serious blood. and lakh dee lanat on that anchor who is planting hatred in 6 years old kids.
Re: Myth about winning 1965 War
I agree to what you said and I salute those who gave sacrifices.
But my reservations remain same, those who sacrificed were exploited by someone at that time and now referring those sacrifices, the nation is being fed up with more lies to get some other objectives.
Re: Myth about winning 1965 War
Let us see objevtives of 1965 war, indian generals/ govt had to invade Western Pakistan, taking control of Lahore and Sialkot and make Pakistan choose either its cities or Kashmir.
To my best knowledge and reports and ground realities, Indian Army couldn't make that 14.2 bloody miles to capture Lahore, 100s tanks were left behind in Sialkot and no indian boots were in Pakistani cities nor India was able to push Pakistan out of Kashmir nor make Pakistan to withdraw its case about Kashmir.
The slef proclaimed intellects, who are dying to prove that indian won and Pakistan lost, please come forward and show us the un educated, and wrongfully fed minded that Lahore was in control on Indian Army and thet use to have dance parties at Lahore Gymkhana club for all the war duration..
Pakistan had golden opportunity to take Kashmir in 1962 during indo-china war..
They missed it then and it was not the objective in 1965...
But yes, pig flies, usa landed on moon, obama is gay amd india won in 1965...
Re: Myth about winning 1965 War
People like Sacheydino....who have migrated to USA, living there, do you guys have guts to say Amereeka should stop celebrating 4th of July, considering their glorious and well celebrated independence day means slaughter, massacre, ethnic cleansing of native Indians? Do you have the guts to condemn American independence Day and their extreme pride in their nationhood despite their Civil Wars like you spit venom on Pakistani national days out of racial bigotry?
Re: Myth about winning 1965 War
Let us see objevtives of 1965 war, indian generals/ govt had to invade Western Pakistan, taking control of Lahore and Sialkot and make Pakistan choose either its cities or Kashmir.
To my best knowledge and reports and ground realities, Indian Army couldn't make that 14.2 bloody miles to capture Lahore, 100s tanks were left behind in Sialkot and no indian boots were in Pakistani cities nor India was able to push Pakistan out of Kashmir nor make Pakistan to withdraw its case about Kashmir.
The slef proclaimed intellects, who are dying to prove that indian won and Pakistan lost, please come forward and show us the un educated, and wrongfully fed minded that Lahore was in control on Indian Army and thet use to have dance parties at Lahore Gymkhana club for all the war duration..
Pakistan had golden opportunity to take Kashmir in 1962 during indo-china war.. They missed it then and it was not the objective in 1965...
But yes, pig flies, usa landed on moon, obama is gay amd india won in 1965...
To some lame Indianphile intellectuals....India has every right to mark, celebrate, remember 1965 war, but Pakistanis should sob, hold their heads down in shame, wail and look like undignified and miserable buffoons with sorry existence. Why? They failed to give Lahore and Sialkot to Indians? Pathetic. May such intellectuals never find ground in Pakistan. What a nasty insult to nation's collective spirit of survival and self belief.
Yeah good thing Germans never had such self hating jerks and fools in their country. What does Imran know German sense of self respect, identity, unity and spirit of survival
Re: Myth about winning 1965 War
I guess this is why India so vigorously 'celebrates' its 'victory' every year in September.