This question I have asked many Muslim friends, but so far remained unanswered.
Why 70% of verses in Quran are devoted to non-believers, non-Muslims. They, non-believers, are abused and threatened.
In some of the verses Allah says that he has deliberately darken their minds.
If so, what is their guilt?
70%? How did you get that number?
Re: My question
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Originally posted by yahudi: *
**They, non-believers, are abused and threatened.*
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"People of the Book" are abused and threatened in the Quran? Really? Then why does the Quran refer to people of other monotheistic faiths, such as Judaism and Christianity, out of respect as "People of the Book" who have also received divine revelations?
Nadia, so it is ok to abuse and threaten the non-book people? Original poster used the word non-believers. Yahudi and Christians may be people of the book(by your view) but they are still non-believers in your book. Definition of a believer that comes from Quran is the person who submits to Allah and beleives in the finality of his messenger Mohammad. There is not much slack for christians and jews in that view but the phrase "people of the book" does come in handy sometimes, doesn't it?
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Originally posted by ChannMahi: *
**Nadia, so it is ok to abuse and threaten the non-book people? *
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Thank you, i would appreciate your not putting words in my mouth. When did i ever state that it is permissible to "abuse and threaten the non-book people"?
Re: the issue of 'non-believers' - for devout Christians, anyone who is not a Christian is also an unbeliever. i have heard it many times from my Christian friends. The same thing is true for any other individual who is devout to her/his faith - we always incline to believe that our faith is the 'correct' one and anyone who doesn't agree to that, is in the wrong. This is true for Muslims as it is for Jews, Christians, etc etc.
To go from the above, and jump all the way towards abusing and threatening those who don't agree with us - well, that to me is completely irrational. We can disagree with others, does not signify we have to hurl abuses at those we disagree with. And back to the original point of this thread - nowhere in the Quran does it call on us to abuse and threaten anyone, whether or not they are People of the Book.
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*Originally posted by Changez_like: *
70%? How did you get that number?
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Look at his name(Yahudi), he is just here to create Fitna. There is no proof to his statement. Just ignore him.
Its a challange. The verses devoted to non-beleivers are not less than 70%, may be more.
The devotee Muslims are escaping one question.
I think exactly in the very second chapter Allah says that he has darkened the minds of non-beleivers, of paganas.
So, what is the fault of these poor non-beleivers that in every third and fourth verse they are threatened of hell fire.
Ms Nadia, why you look for excuses? Let us talk of holy Quran!
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Originally posted by yahudi: *
**Ms Nadia, why you look for excuses? Let us talk of holy Quran!
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*
Alright, indeed - let us talk of the Holy Quran. Where would you like to begin? Shall i begin with these verses:
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Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant. {V.82}
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[quote]
Say: "O People of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah." If then they turn back, say ye: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will). {III.64}
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Yahudi asks: Why non-believers are abused and threatened in Quran.
Nadia answers: "People of the Book" are abused and threatened in the Quran? Really?
Who dit put the words in whose mouth?
Result: The subsequent discussion diverted through repeated references to "people of the book" while ignoring his original mention of "non-believers".
Nadia seems to say that look...Quran is really soft to "people of the book"..so shut up and don't be the "typical" fitna Yahudi....instead let us deal with "non-believers" first. Why you , Yahudi, as a people of book care why and how "non-believers" are condemned? We are nice to you by considering you "people of the book"...see...look look see.
yahudi that's because Islam is a religion of peace and wants all the humans on the earth to be on the right path, coz if they are not they will be punished severly in the life after death, that's y non muslims are montioned so much, so that they embrace the true faith and be able to live a life truly great here and after...
hope that helps
and we are not to force any one to convert to Islam, it's up to them, all we have to do is just to show them the right path, tell them about Islam, answer their questions and rest is upto them ...
Re: My question
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by yahudi: *
This question I have asked many Muslim friends, but so far remained unanswered.
Why 70% of verses in Quran are devoted to non-believers, non-Muslims. They, non-believers, are abused and threatened.
In some of the verses Allah says that he has deliberately darken their minds.
If so, what is their guilt?
[/QUOTE]
if u read the whole verse in which ALLAH taala has said that HE has delibrately darken thier minds then u will see that thispunishment of darkening the minds ..or put it in other words not showing the true path is due to some big sin .........like killing prophets.......denying prophets......etc...........ALLAH has given us plenty of oppurtunity to see the true path............
If I may go with the original question for a moment.. I am not sure of the percentage about/devoted to non-believers, but you are right, there is much talk in the Book about it. That is because Mohammed was a reformer. His immediate practical concerns were to deal with those found closest to him, these were primarily Jews and Christians.. for this reason many of his words (or, the words he was given) focused on instructing these people of their errors and how they may correct them in order to regain God's favor. Similarly, and quite simply, the Quran deals with non-believers (with a focus on Judeo-Christian) so much because it is revising their past instruction--it is using the existing religions as a foundation. It is not, however, solely aimed at People of the Book (and even not only at non-believers because even believers need to remember such lessons).
As to whether you believe the Quran abuses non-believers.. this is more a matter of opinion (because opinion is allowed to be absurd). Remember: this is not a matter of prejudice as our modern court systems see it. It is a matter of right and wrong. The scary parts of the Book do not condemn people simply because they don't believe "God's name is Allah and Mohammed is his messenger". They give examples of proper behavior, how to correct improper behavior, and what happens should you choose to continue to behave improperly.
If you have a problem with declarations of ethic and consequence then you do not only have a problem with Islam. All religions deal with this to varying degrees.. that would make your problem one of faith in general and wholly a different argument.
**Originally posted by yahudi: *
Its a challange. The verses devoted to non-beleivers are not less than 70%, may be more. *
Then accept my counter challenge to prove that verses devoted to non-believers are 70% or more.
*The devotee Muslims are escaping one question. *
No one is "escaping". You have to be TO THE POINT and bring out verses you want to discuss, but your beginning and style really conveys your "intentions".
I think exactly in the very second chapter Allah says that he has darkened the minds of non-beleivers, of paganas.
So, what is the fault of these poor non-beleivers that in every third and fourth verse they are threatened of hell fire.
Fault? They declined to accept the Unity of God and didn't stop worshipping idols. If one is "idolator" then why worry about a book which is for "believers/idolators"?
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Originally posted by Changez_like: *
*
Fault? They declined to accept the Unity of God and didn't stop worshipping idols. If one is "idolator" then why worry about a book which is for "believers/idolators"? **
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I think his question is if a group has accepted the Unity of God and stopped worshipping idols, why is 70% of their devoted to unbelievers?
**
:k: :k:
Yahudi, Just for the record, i couldn’t care less whether your nick is “Yahudi”, “Muslim” or “pagan”. i am sorry about my emphasis upon “People of the Book” as opposed to non-believers in general; that was an honest oversight on my part and i apologize for that. It wasn’t deliberately done, that is all i can state.
Anyhow, please believe whatsoever you wish. Cheers,
nadia
The given verse is from chapter ¹ 2/
Allâh has set a seal on their hearts and on their hearings, (i.e. they are closed from accepting Allâh's Guidance), and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be a great torment.
The given verse is from chapter ¹ 6/
And of them there are some who listen to you; but We have set veils on their hearts, so they understand it not, and deafness in their ears; if they see every one of the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) they will not believe therein; to the point that when they come to you to argue with you, the disbelievers say: "These are nothing but tales of the men of old."
Please read above verses and tell me what is the fault of poor non- believers, if Allah has played with them deliberately.
Ms, Nadia You are a Muslim by default. You cannot read Quran with an open mind. For that you may need a total revolution against your own being.
Mr Changez & Spoon, you pls read each other, answer is there.
And let us read further the word of God.
If you could but see when they will be held over the (Hell) Fire! They will say: "Would that we were but sent back (to the world)! Then we would not deny the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, revelations, etc.) of our Lord, and we would be of the believers!"
Nay, it has become manifest to them what they had been concealing before. But if they were returned (to the world), they would certainly revert to that which they were forbidden. And indeed they are liars.
Quran says that they are liars. These are the teachings of Quran to Muslims against non-Muslims.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by yahudi: *
**Ms, Nadia You are a Muslim by default. You cannot read Quran with an open mind. For that you may need a total revolution against your own being.*
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My being a Muslim makes me unable to read the Quran with an open mind? So by that analogy, Christians and Jews should be unable to read the Bible and Torah with an open mind, right? Or does your argument of a lack of intellectualism only apply to Muslims?
yahudi, I'm so glad you selected those two verses. The first one speaking of God setting a seal over their hearts refers to the non-believer's absolute rejection of the teachings of God as given in the Quran. This rejection is an act of the non-believer's free will. To reject God in such a manner is sin. God rejects all sinners hence the setting a seal on their hearts.
The other two refer to the same principle in different ways: If a person rejects God he enters into sin and as such God will reject him. Nothing evil or sneaky here.. just have to read in context.
Yes, Ms Nadia, this applies to the devotees of all religions. Once you blindly believe in a religion, you can read it, swallow it, consume it but cannot study it. In fact, you have incorrectly used the word ‘intellectualism’.
Now, can I raise the core issue? That every one is escaping.
Why 70% of verses in Quran are devoted to non-Muslims?
What is the fault of the poor non-believers, if Allah has deliberately darkened their minds, sealed their hearts? After doing so Allah abuses them, threatens them of (hell) fire?
If the non-believers repent, Allah says not to believe them because they are liars. A total block!
I read Quran as it is written. To go for some context, in the context or out of the context, I do not appreciate. Like Spoon has tried to impress me. Pls read his reply. In fact he has said nothing.