My post in Hazrat Ali Roza deleted by Mod, can't post in that thread anymore

[smooth_guy]

My post is deleted too. Just because I called to rethink of these Shirkiya acts. We don’t have to be politically correct all the time to please Shias, Wahabiz, Qadiyaniz or other group.

All I did was reminded people of what Prophet SAW and ahle-bait would have said about them if these pictures were taken out in procession during Prophet or early Islamic era.

Why can’t we think about Shia, Wahabi, Sunni holes we have dug for ourselves. Why not just evaluate our deeds based on what Prophet SAW brought to us. These pictures of Imam Hussain RA and other pure souls are very offending for any Muslim. Islam is against making statues or pictures of such nature.

Why would these comments be deleted? To please a special group of people?

[Lusi]

Re: My post in Hazrat Ali Roza deleted by Mod, can't post in that thread anymore

No one is supporting special groups, we can continue the discussion in this thread. I would just request everyone to discuss the issue with cool and calm attitude. Thanks!

[autumn_leaf]

Re: My post in Hazrat Ali Roza deleted by Mod, can't post in that thread anymore

lusi u have deleted my posts too ....why?
just cause i told u making imaginary paintings of the highest people from the house of banu Hashim is haram!and hurts sentiments of wahabis and sunnis

now u definitely hold bias against non shia muslims

i have reported you to Admin too...lets see if he turns out to be anti non shia too

[Lusi]

Re: My post in Hazrat Ali Roza deleted by Mod, can't post in that thread anymore

I can not restore those posts, hence had to move them to review forum. I do not hold any biases against non shias. I will request you all to continue your discussion in this thread. If you have any question regarding your posts that have been moved from the other thread, please pm and me and I will be more then happy to address all your concerns.

Thanks!

[ramesha]

Re: My post in Hazrat Ali Roza deleted by Mod, can't post in that thread anymore

Where is the evidence that pictorial or graphical representation is against Islam? Anything in the Quran? because if you talk about hadiths then Saha Sitta forbid any form of picture at all including people and animals and certainly if these traditions were strong in their authenticity then using a camera will be haraam, which it is not clearly.

[ramesha]

Re: My post in Hazrat Ali Roza deleted by Mod, can't post in that thread anymore

My post is deleted too. Just because I called to rethink of these Shirkiya acts.

If you do not mind me asking, what is your defination of Shirk?

[autumn_leaf]

Re: My post in Hazrat Ali Roza deleted by Mod, can't post in that thread anymore

Where is the evidence that pictorial or graphical representation is against Islam? Anything in the Quran? because if you talk about hadiths then Saha Sitta forbid any form of picture at all including people and animals and certainly if these traditions were strong in their authenticity then using a camera will be haraam, which it is not clearly.

astagfirullah so now u even have nerves to endorse the imaginary paintings of the most pious people from mankind and coming from the house of Banu Hashim.......
atleast you came up honestly and not like that pagluu guy who is jumping up and down changing stances in every post

Can u answer one simple question???how can u paint someone who u have never seen??and what is the object behind and motive behind painting?like hindus make idols for concentration....do u make paintings so that u can concentrate on noha and matam(aza dari)?

you guys just pick up some lame kid from the street dress him in black and green...God knows whether he is in wuddu or not or what sort of bad habits he indulges in and u make him into a Shabeeh of Syed Imam Hussain Radi Allah......

[hanibal]

Re: My post in Hazrat Ali Roza deleted by Mod, can't post in that thread anymore

Where is the evidence that pictorial or graphical representation is against Islam? Anything in the Quran? because if you talk about hadiths then Saha Sitta forbid any form of picture at all including people and animals and certainly if these traditions were strong in their authenticity then using a camera will be haraam, which it is not clearly.

Picture, statue and any object which shall be made, purchased with the intention of praying and anything related to pray is haram as it is source of Shirk.. and shirk is strictly forbidden in Islam, taking pictures for memories and/or legal purposes has never been haram and has been in use by the muslims since the invention of such.... even before the times, paintings humans and other living creatures and scenery has been seen in the history of Islamic era...

One thing i do not understand about the SHIA.. they do remember and mourn the day their Imams died, they do have ceremonies and gatherings on the day of their birth.. but there is nothing they do to practice how the Imams have lived their lives! i wonder why? when we read about the great virtues of these Imams, the thing comes to mind is that the followers of the same would be of geat character... but all what is seen is mourning ceremonies and birth ceremonies... all they remember is the day they died, they never seem to care why they select the path of death.. as if they do, then the same death becomes the reason to live..

but maybe it is too difficult to follow Their life-style and it is 100 time easier to mourn and curse... and that is why it is practiced...

[Sehrysh]

Re: My post in Hazrat Ali Roza deleted by Mod, can’t post in that thread anymore

@hanibal

One thing i do not understand about the SHIA.. they do remember and mourn the day their Imams died, they do have ceremonies and gatherings on the day of their birth.. but there is nothing they do to practice how the Imams have lived their lives! i wonder why? when we read about the great virtues of these Imams, the thing comes to mind is that the followers of the same would be of geat character… but all what is seen is mourning ceremonies and birth ceremonies… all they remember is the day they died, they never seem to care why they select the path of death.. as if they do, then the same death becomes the reason to live..

but maybe it is too difficult to follow Their life-style and it is 100 time easier to mourn and curse… and that is why it is practiced…

And of course you can say this because you know the hearts and minds of Shias and you have taken it upon yourself to judge Shias and their aqeeda and level of ibaadat, right?

Isn’t that for Allah to do, and for someone to take on the actions that are His exclusive domain, i.e. your very act of condemnation or judgment of Shias, isn’t that an act of shirk? Yes, that’s what I thought.

But do carry on!

[KKF]

Re: My post in Hazrat Ali Roza deleted by Mod, can't post in that thread anymore

Picture, statue and any object which shall be made, purchased with the intention of praying and anything related to pray is haram as it is source of Shirk.. and shirk is strictly forbidden in Islam, taking pictures for memories and/or legal purposes has never been haram and has been in use by the muslims since the invention of such.... even before the times, paintings humans and other living creatures and scenery has been seen in the history of Islamic era...

One thing i do not understand about the SHIA.. they do remember and mourn the day their Imams died, they do have ceremonies and gatherings on the day of their birth.. but there is nothing they do to practice how the Imams have lived their lives! i wonder why? when we read about the great virtues of these Imams, the thing comes to mind is that the followers of the same would be of geat character... but all what is seen is mourning ceremonies and birth ceremonies... all they remember is the day they died, they never seem to care why they select the path of death.. as if they do, then the same death becomes the reason to live..

but maybe it is too difficult to follow Their life-style and it is 100 time easier to mourn and curse... and that is why it is practiced...

very well said. but its NOT only restricted to shi'as, i wud say the majority of muslims [all sects included] are away from deen. what saddens me more is the fact that most muslims these days do shirk without even knowing. qabr parasti, barelvism is a perfect example of that...Barelvis have exalted Prophet's [saws] position in the same manner as christians have elevated Jesus [a.s.] to the rank of God. there is stark resemblence. we'll soon hear from their pulpit, just as christians say about Jesus, that take Prophet [saws] in ur heart and ur salvation is guaranteed and will preach just to listen to qawwalsi and do miilaads. i'm really saddened to see this. qabr-parasti and peeri/mureedi has become a big business these days due to blind following.

[ramesha]

Re: My post in Hazrat Ali Roza deleted by Mod, can't post in that thread anymore

Picture, statue and any object which shall be made, purchased with the intention of praying and anything related to pray is haram as it is source of Shirk.. and shirk is strictly forbidden in Islam, .....

I absolutely agree that intetion holds the key. If its salat time and I am watching TV instead would it be shirk because I am prefering TV over my creator? Yes ONLY if my intention is that of giving glory to TV as a powerful deity that does actually have control over some or all of my affairs. But If my intention is that I am lazy to get up and pray then I may be obeying Satan but I am not making Shirk.

[quote]
....taking pictures for memories and/or legal purposes has never been haram and has been in use by the muslims since the invention of such......
[/quote]

Actually when cameras first came out they were declared haraam by many Muslim scholars. In Saudi Arab they did not start using the video cameras until much later because it was declared "eye of the devil"!

[quote]
One thing i do not understand about the SHIA.. they do remember and mourn the day their Imams died, they do have ceremonies and gatherings on the day of their birth.. but there is nothing they do to practice how the Imams have lived their lives! i wonder why? when we read about the great virtues of these Imams, the thing comes to mind is that the followers of the same would be of geat character... but all what is seen is mourning ceremonies and birth ceremonies... all they remember is the day they died, they never seem to care why they select the path of death.. as if they do, then the same death becomes the reason to live..

but maybe it is too difficult to follow Their life-style and it is 100 time easier to mourn and curse... and that is why it is practiced...
[/QUOTE]

All the religious or political groups have their ideals. You could argue that none of them fulfill their ideals 100% but that is the goal of rememberence one would think. You seem to have generalised your views of the Shia people if indeed that is your actual view.

[smooth_guy]

Re: My post in Hazrat Ali Roza deleted by Mod, can't post in that thread anymore

Are you in favour of taking fake pictures of Ahle-bait in rallies???
Are you not offended that people are taking out pictures of family of our Prophet SAW?
Its useless to go into prohibition of pictures or statues in Islam with you. Just answer, what would Prophet SAW have done to the people who would have such rallies with pictures in it? If it was seemed Islamic, why Prophet SAW didn't order zanjeer zani for Sayyedna Hamza RA death? Can we love Hz Hussain RA more then Prophet SAW for him or for Hz Hamza R.A?

Just imagine what Prophet's reaction would have been. You will find the answer from your heart.

[ramesha]

Re: My post in Hazrat Ali Roza deleted by Mod, can't post in that thread anymore

Are you in favour of taking fake pictures of Ahle-bait in rallies???

I am not in favour of making pictures however if it is for a good cause such as making a movie then I have no problem with it as long as due care and respect is shown such as in the movie The Message.

If you look at medieval times and art from that era then you will find a number portrayals of events from the life of the Prophet, such as the Miraj with and without his face being veiled, like for instance done under the Ottomans (i.e. Sunnis). It appears that one of the main purpose of such works was to teach illiterate people who couldn't read about the their religion.

[quote]
Are you not offended that people are taking out pictures of family of our Prophet SAW?
[/quote]

I will be offended if somebody told me that it is the real picture of the Ahlul Bayt (as) or Ashaab (ra). If its just an artistic impression then I am not too sure, though I will never make one myself as a precautionary measure.

[quote]
Its useless to go into prohibition of pictures or statues in Islam with you. Just answer, what would Prophet SAW have done to the people who would have such rallies with pictures in it? If it was seemed Islamic, why Prophet SAW didn't order zanjeer zani for Sayyedna Hamza RA death?
[/quote]

Where is the suggestion that such pictures or zanjeer are part of Islam or ibaadaat? I am a Shia for over 10 years and I have never painted a picture nor have seen zanjeer.

Main question is regarding the prohibition of drawing pictures and not whether they are part of Islam.

[quote]
Can we love Hz Hussain RA more then Prophet SAW for him or for Hz Hamza R.A?

Just imagine what Prophet's reaction would have been. You will find the answer from your heart.
[/QUOTE]

Prophet (saww) arranged mourning for Syedus Shohda Hamza (as), did he not? Do you not believe that Imam Hussain's sacrifice and stature is unique in many ways?

[TLK]

Re: My post in Hazrat Ali Roza deleted by Mod, can’t post in that thread anymore

Yaar tum log bandook uthaa ke eik doosary ko jaan se maar hee kyun nahi daitay. Khail khatam pisaa hazam.

We live in a country where people are getting murdered day and night, one of the exact nishaniyan of Qiyamat that Prophet gave. Nor the killer, neither the victim would know why the murder happened. Qiyamat qareeb hai bhaiyon, Astaghfaar karo, apni fikar karo, namaz parho aur allah se gunahon kee mafi maango. You will not go to jannat if you prove in this thread that Shia or sunni are good muslims or not, you will go if you do what a muslim is suppose to do.

[ramesha]

Re: My post in Hazrat Ali Roza deleted by Mod, can’t post in that thread anymore

@TLK

Yaar tum log bandook uthaa ke eik doosary ko jaan se maar hee kyun nahi daitay. Khail khatam pisaa hazam.

We live in a country where people are getting murdered day and night, one of the exact nishaniyan of Qiyamat that Prophet gave. Nor the killer, neither the victim would know why the murder happened. Qiyamat qareeb hai bhaiyon, Astaghfaar karo, apni fikar karo, namaz parho aur allah se gunahon kee mafi maango. You will not go to jannat if you prove in this thread that Shia or sunni are good muslims or not, you will go if you do what a muslim is suppose to do.

[smooth_guy]

Re: My post in Hazrat Ali Roza deleted by Mod, can't post in that thread anymore

Thanks for sharing your opinion. My opinion is that making pictures of any kind specially Prophet SAW, his companion and his ahle-bait are not acceptable, even for educational purposes. If Ottoman did it, they will answer in their graves but they cannot change the fact that it is not allowed in Islam.

As for the original post that is deleted in the original thread, the issue raised was all this procession done on streets, just today at Chehallum there were 72 coffins carried out in a huge procession (saw it on ARY news), then these pictures and child sitting on horse wearing green as Imam Zain-ul-Abideen R.A. Where this is going to end, just imagine. If its not part of Islam, why its not condemned by Shia scholars, instead they support it. This changes the face and real message of those souls. IMO.

In my opinion, I believe Prophet and his family would never have liked people make their pictures, or mourn like people do today. Prophet SAW did mourn and he showed how to mourn with respect and decency. Nor he celebrated Ameer Hamza R.A's death every year, instead Ameer's legacy lived as an inspiration for the generations of Mujahideen. This is what is required, to live by inspiration of ahle-bait and Sahaba's lives, not just make it an annual celebration. Remember them with our 'amal' every day we live, not just the rituals and traditions.

[hanibal]

Re: My post in Hazrat Ali Roza deleted by Mod, can’t post in that thread anymore

@Sehrysh

And of course you can say this because you know the hearts and minds of Shias and you have taken it upon yourself to judge Shias and their aqeeda and level of ibaadat, right?

Isn’t that for Allah to do, and for someone to take on the actions that are His exclusive domain, i.e. your very act of condemnation or judgment of Shias, isn’t that an act of shirk? Yes, that’s what I thought.

But do carry on!

Ofcourse it is Allah to Judge the intentions but we as the people can see the actions and develop certain ideas… don’t we? i just made a comment on general character of the SHIAs, as they claim to follow the People of Household (RZA)… but to me, i have seldom seen any action from them which tells that the claim is true… anyway, you can continue to live in denial and do what you think is right…

[hanibal]

Re: My post in Hazrat Ali Roza deleted by Mod, can't post in that thread anymore

very well said. but its NOT only restricted to shi'as, i wud say the majority of muslims [all sects included] are away from deen. what saddens me more is the fact that most muslims these days do shirk without even knowing. qabr parasti, barelvism is a perfect example of that...Barelvis have exalted Prophet's [saws] position in the same manner as christians have elevated Jesus [a.s.] to the rank of God. there is stark resemblence. we'll soon hear from their pulpit, just as christians say about Jesus, that take Prophet [saws] in ur heart and ur salvation is guaranteed and will preach just to listen to qawwalsi and do miilaads. i'm really saddened to see this. qabr-parasti and peeri/mureedi has become a big business these days due to blind following.

The reason i generalized the views to SHIA because the thread is related to them...

you are right, Islam have strictly prohibited QABR-PARASTI and today's Muslim believe QABR-PARASTI as an integral part of their religion... DATA SAHIB, MIAN MEER and others who have their lives spent calling people towards, sadly their graves have turned into the center of non-islamic practices...

to me this attitude is one of the main reason of our fall and we would continue to fall untill it is changed...

Blind following is something which is part of certain cults of Islam... be it brailevies, Ahl-e-Hadith, Deo-bandies,Wahabies or Shias, everyone have to follow what a certain aalim have said some hundred odd years ago...

[KKF]

Re: My post in Hazrat Ali Roza deleted by Mod, can't post in that thread anymore

@hanibal

The reason i generalized the views to SHIA because the thread is related to them...

you are right, Islam have strictly prohibited QABR-PARASTI and today's Muslim believe QABR-PARASTI as an integral part of their religion... DATA SAHIB, MIAN MEER and others who have their lives spent calling people towards, sadly their graves have turned into the center of non-islamic practices...

to me this attitude is one of the main reason of our fall and we would continue to fall untill it is changed...

Blind following is something which is part of certain cults of Islam... be it brailevies, Ahl-e-Hadith, Deo-bandies,Wahabies or Shias, everyone have to follow what a certain aalim have said some hundred odd years ago...

**exactly bro...ur msg is well received...i blame ulama for NOT teaching islam as it ought to be taught...in its purest form...the islam Prophet [saws] brought for us...he said in his last Khutba that verily he had conveyed the Allah's message in its entirety and asked those present to be his witness...Allah has promised to safeguard Qur'aan and it is pure now and will be pure till qayaama...now shaitaan started manipulating us and showed us the path of self destruction, telling su that we must interpret Qur'aan to our likings and dig out the aHaadess to justify their handiwork. i know aHaadees if contradict teachings of Qur'aan then it must be rejected. Khair...kis kis ko roiye kis kis ko samjhaaiye...

no doubt bro as u said, we have been falling to the bottomless pit by "taarik-e-Qur'aaN" ho kar. may Allah show us the right path...siraat ul mustaqeem! aameen**

[hanibal]

Re: My post in Hazrat Ali Roza deleted by Mod, can't post in that thread anymore

**exactly bro...ur msg is well received...i blame ulama for NOT teaching islam as it ought to be taught...in its purest form...the islam Prophet [saws] brought for us...he said in his last Khutba that verily he had conveyed the Allah's message in its entirety and asked those present to be his witness...Allah has promised to safeguard Qur'aan and it is pure now and will be pure till qayaama...now shaitaan started manipulating us and showed us the path of self destruction, telling su that we must interpret Qur'aan to our likings and dig out the aHaadess to justify their handiwork. i know aHaadees if contradict teachings of Qur'aan then it must be rejected. Khair...kis kis ko roiye kis kis ko samjhaaiye...

no doubt bro as u said, we have been falling to the bottomless pit by "taarik-e-Qur'aaN" ho kar. may Allah show us the right path...siraat ul mustaqeem! aameen**

History of Islam clearly tells us..

Ju Sahib-e-Quran thay, unhay un kay dusham tak izaat say daikhtay haiN
aur ju Taarék-e-Quran thay/haiN.. un key dastaaN bhi nahi dastanooN maiN