My debate with a Christian Evangelical in email

[Stomp]

“I would love to. Jesus Christ is the Savior of those whom God planned to save. You see, all mankind is naturally sinful. We love to sin. Because the penalty for any sin is eternal damnation in Hell, God has no choice but to throw us into Hell. That is, unless there was a substitute for us. That Substitute was Jesus Christ. He died on the cross for the sins of the elect .”

So, basically what you’re saying is that if you believe Jesus Christ (pbuh) died on the cross then, then you’re exempt from sin? So Hitler will go to heaven despite the fact that he killed 6 million Jews, but say Gandhi (who was a Hindu) who never harmed anyone, will go to hell for not believing Jesus Christ (pbuh) died on the cross for our sins (according to the bible) that seems a illogical and extreme, seems like Jesus Christ (pbuh) is not very forgiving, loving or compassionate.

" There are hundreds of prophesies in the Bible—many have already taken place. No prophesy has been disproven. In addition, the historical settings are accurate and there are even scientific references in the Bible, all of which could never be known by humans of that time (thus proving that the Bible was divinely inspired)."

Same could be said for holy Qur’an, no prophesies have been disproved in the holy Qu’ran. What about the Dead Sea scrolls? Which were discovered in 1947 which date back to the last two centuries (b.c) they seem to bring many discrepancies to light within the bible? So how can you say the bible is divinely inspired if some bits are missions from it? Also there is much to suggest that the bible has been edited over the years, again it kind of loses it credibility of it being divinely inspired if its been edited.

“The environment for salvation is in the Bible. In other words, a person who is unsure of his salvation will want to start reading the Bible. If they are in a position to be saved, God can save them, if that person is one of God’s elect .”

Many other religions say the same thing; you can’t just start believing in something, Buddhist say: “you must believe” well how can I? If something is illogical then I cannot believe init my brain has to think logically for it to open my heart.

"God (Jesus) didn’t choose everyone to be saved. If you truly are serious about Christianity, you will find that many Bible teachers or others may teach that you can ‘accept Jesus,’ or ‘ask for forgiveness,’ etc., and immediately become saved. I want to warn you that this is a false teaching. We can’t do any work to get ourselves saved. Not anything. Jesus already died on the cross for those whom He planned to save . "

So basically what you’re saying is the none “elect” people are going to hell regardless, because god wanted it that way? That seems wrong, so basically its pointless if I believe in Jesus Christ (pbuh) to be god or not? I am going to hell regardless, because “god” wanted it that way – what kind of a god is this, who can send others to hell even though they have not done anything wrong and the circumstances are beyond their control?

“That is why we need Jesus. The Bible is the most truthful document in the whole world. Every page is absolutely truthful. And when it essentially says mankind is doomed without a Savior, we know this is true .”

You seem to be contradicting yourself one minute you say we can’t do anything we are going to hell regardless, and then you say we need Jesus Christ (pbuh) I ask you for what then?

“The good news is that Jesus may also be your Savior. The very fact that you are showing some interest in Christianity means that quite possibly you may be one of God’s elect.”

You could be sure about that, because I can distinguish truth from falsehood. God doesn’t, discriminate he made all humans with clay i.e. equally and he also gave us freewill and intellect to challenge falsehood and to be able to comprehend truth.

“Also, I wanted to make it known that Jesus Christ is equal to God Almighty. Jesus is God, and is a member of a triune God. Christians have one God in three, and three in one. This is a concept we cannot possibly understand in this life .”

Jesus Christ (pbuh) acted more like a human then a god, god cannot be harmed by his own creation, god is immortal he is beyond time and space, Jesus Christ (pbuh) was not.

“Finally, it may have seemed that I went on a tangent, speaking about salvation and things of that nature. I suppose I could have told you more about Jesus’ life on earth (healing countless people, miracles, raising Lazarus from the dead, etc.). However, salvation is the essence of Christ, because Christ is the giver of salvation to whomever He wishes .”

I don’t know how much you know about Islam, or anything however let me tell you Jesus Christ (pbuh) is the most quoted prophet in the wholly Qu’ran, Muslims also believe in the miraculous virgin birth of Jesus Christ (pbuh) and there is a whole chapter on the Virgin Mary. Also a Muslim also refers to Jesus Christ (pbuh) with the (Peace Be upon Him or pbuh) a Muslim shows the utmost respect to Jesus Christ (pbuh) and the Virgin Mary.

(Jesus) is not God or Lord, nor the son of God. Muslims do not believe that Isa (A.S.), also known as Jesus by Christians and others, is dead or was ever crucified. We believe that he was raised to heaven and is there, and will descend at the appointed time, end all wars, and bring peace to the world. Like Jesus ( A.S.), Muhammad (Peace be upon him) is also a Prophet and Messenger. Muhammad (P.B.U.H.) is the last Prophet, though, and there is none after him. Hence, Islam is the last religion, complete, with the Holy Qur’an as the unchanged and perfect word of God for over 1400 years, as God promised to preserve it till the last day for all of humankind, unlike sacred texts of other religions which have multiple versions and are “revised” periodically. God, or Allah in Arabic, is Divine and Supreme Being and Creator.

Regards,

So this is what he replies back with:

You can go blindly along in your religion if you want. Simple belief does not get anyone saved. Hitler could not save himself simply by believing in Christ. God has to do all the work of saving.

To which I replied:
I can understand that, but it seems like the bible contradicts is self. One minute you say if you believe in Jesus (pbuh) then you’re forgiven for your sins, and the next you say well not really. Anyway all I would like to say to you my brother is that you can ask me anything about Islam and I will answer everything for you logically. I invite you to read the English translation of the Qu’ran. The holy Qu’ran corrects the bible, we Muslims believe the bible had been divine at some point and it was truly the word of god, however the bible had been corrupted so then Allah sent down the holy Qu’ran to the Christians as a gift to get rid of there miss understanding.

After that I never heard from him

Would any Christian like to take over from here?

[Antumul_alona]

Re: My debate with a Christian Evangelical in email

May Allah guide him to tthe right path, we can only convey, once a guy I met at St. Loius Airport chapel where I was making my maghreb prayer, arued and the end we both departed by saying " see you on the day of judgement and lets see who was right in this world..."
I felt sorry for him but don't know whether he will be guided by Allah SWT.

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: My debate with a Christian Evangelical in email

^ what i really like is that it seems u had a good mutually respecting discussion with this guy, we need more of that, even if we dont agree..too bad that such discussions either are many times started off with malicious intent, or go off in the wrong direction.. good to hear when ppl did not agree but learnt and parted ways in a civil manner.

[Stomp]

Re: My debate with a Christian Evangelical in email

@Antumul alona

May Allah guide him to tthe right path, we can only convey, once a guy I met at St. Loius Airport chapel where I was making my maghreb prayer, arued and the end we both departed by saying " see you on the day of judgement and lets see who was right in this world…"
I felt sorry for him but don’t know whether he will be guided by Allah SWT.

I have also had a similar conversation with an atheist on a train, I don’t really know why they want to talk to me about religious issues am not even the good Muslim. However, with him he told me I am believing in the sake of having a belief in the after life as I can’t face death.

And I countered this, and I told him I have nothing to fear, I don’t fear death. The issue is, you’re denying the existence of god for the reason that you can’t face reality and you do not want to be held responsible for your actions and intentions. However, this is all a big-lie for you, you’re only fooling yourself with his disbelief, believing there is not god will not make good disappear. So you for denying the existence in god will be in trouble if you die and there is a god and if you’re and there is no god then I have nothing to lose, I win both ways.

And he just looked at me and to my amazement, he said “you make a very valid point” at this point the train had stopped and I had to get off. Never saw the guy after that.