Away from the states but on similar topic Partner of Bush in this onslaught of muslims T Blair.
Some muslims groups in the UK i know where activly asking muslims in general to vote for Tony Blair and his Labour party.
I also remember this one guy Lord ahmed making Dua in house of parliment for the British Desert Rat army in Iraq!
These same groups called the British army “Their Boys”
I would like to know are these urinating, abusing British army still “Their Boys”
ak47
simple question, did you like the govt of john major who took part in operation desert storm?
as I see it you have the options of getting involved in the democratic process, and try to make a change that way, or you can choose to sit out and not be involved in the political process, which in essence maintains status quo and makes your views inconsequential as thet do not factor in.
so you have a few choices in UK, pick one..whichever one seems to meet your requirements the most..none are going to be 100%, i can guaranatee that, but sending a message by participation is not the same as sending a message without particpation.
now as far as the troop question goes, as bad as it is, and as systematic as it may have been, all soldiers in iraq are not to blame are they? even during desert storm, I had friends who went there, but are the most kind and sincere people you will find, they had to go because they had to go then..it did not change their outlook and personality and who they were. could I lump them with the type of people who were involved in these atrocities, not at all.
fraudia
As a muslim you fulfill your contract will allah(swt)
The muslims who always pushing to get involved in democractic hyprocritcal process cannot see even if you vote blue or red they will always do what benefits them not you.
The british army who joins the British army only the losers join the no hopers, what muslim is going to say right mum and dad i am going to join the Brit army where if you lucky you will only get shot by your own so called army and called black this and that!
You stick to what islam allows you to do even if you in Britain or US.
You say non participation is non productive it shows system does not work especially for muslims as this incident of supporting Blair or MAjor shows you lose both times whoever you choose!
*Originally posted by ak47: *
The british army who joins the British army only the losers join the no hopers, what muslim is going to say right mum and dad i am going to join the Brit army where if you lucky you will only get shot by your own so called army and called black this and that!
the people i mentioned were not muslim, they were presbytarian I believe and were part of the US army.
Now its not to say I dont know of muslims who are part of the military, some are reservists who had gone the army route to have educastional opportunities that their families would not have been able to afford, and some wanted to do it because they had an interest in military service.
Dont forget that there were many Bosnians saved by the same military.
and as far as losers/no hopers joining the british army, i suppose there are other groups which attract the loser nohoper types but i will not get into that :)
*You say non participation is non productive it shows system does not work especially for muslims as this incident of supporting Blair or MAjor shows you lose both times whoever you choose! *
Okay, but do you win by not participating in the process? and if so..how
Fraudia
Unfortunately, we seem to be in a catch 22 situation here.
We cannot win if we vote and we cannot win if don't vote. Yes, most derogatory institutions are broken from within, but then most are also broken via boycott.
Labour used to appeal to the masses of the working class and immigrants, because the alternative was a right wing Conservative part. Blair was popular because a lot of Muslims felt that he was young, dynamic, on the ball, genuine and had the best chance of defeating the Tories. However, since his blind stance with America, blatant lies and the draconian anti terrorism laws targeting strictly Islam, Muslims are starting to see differently.
The Liberals are starting to make an impact but their leader Charles Kennedy is a prat (who isn't in politics)? If they changed leader and had someone like Menzies Campbell QC take over, then they might just deserve a vote.
As it stands from me, none of them have ever got my vote and never will.
Originally posted by sholay: *
*
Unfortunately, we seem to be in a catch 22 situation here.**
indeed, but its not unique..many people have to pick from the choices they have and pick the candidate closest to their ideals, a perfect match is impossible. You have to pick from the options that exist, or to create more options, green party did that..other groups who felt that their views were not being heard did many diff things..seperate parties in stronghold areas, getting in the parties and changing from within etc.
We cannot win if we vote and we cannot win if don't vote. Yes, most derogatory institutions are broken from within, but then most are also broken via boycott.
only if the boycott is significant enough that it matters, if 3% of the population boycotts, from a pure numbers perspective is does not matter.
so there may not be a lot of good in action, atleast in the short run
but surely that is more than what one would get by inaction
*As it stands from me, none of them have ever got my vote and never will. *
so vote for someone else, liberal dem, greens, anyone..but atleast send a message. even if it does little in short term, its better than being inconsequential.
Fraudia
I hear what you're saying, but not for me at the moment.
Ironically, it was also the swearing of allegiance to the Queen that also detered me from the Legal Profession. I've always followed politics over here and in Pakistan, but refused to actively participate despite tempting offers.
Fraudia, the message was sent very loud and clear last year during the local elections. It was great to see the muslims voting enblock for the liberal party. In Birmingham Labour had controlled the local council for the last 20 years. This time round they lost their majority and the muslim vote which they took for granted deserted them. In the predominantly muslim areas the swing from Labour to Liberals in some areas was as high as 69%. Obviously muslim vote combined with the anti war group sent a loud and clear message to Labour. Next month again there are local elections and I am very hopeful that the pattern of last year will be repeated and Labour will lose further seats. One problem though is that a lot of Labour MP's are anti war as well and if you are in a constituency where there is an anti war MP, do you vote for him or do you vote for someone else because of Blair and his policies. I think the muslims need to become more active in local politics.
In the next elections one very interesting contest will be in Blackburn where the current Foreign Secretary Jack Straw will be fighting for his political life as his constituency has a large muslim population.