i was really disturbed by a comment i read in this Forum that stated, outright, that Muslims don’t have anything to learn from nonMuslims - by the simple virtue of being a Muslim, one is intellectually more superior.
In my opinion, that is a rubbish statement (i respect everyone’s beliefs, but this statement is not accurate IMHO). There is no such thing as being superior to someone else simply by your religion. It is by piety, your acts of charity, your goodness, your morals, your love and respect for elders and young 'uns, that one becomes superior to someone else.
Don’t even think of Muslims like Saddam Hussein, bin Laden - think of Muslims within your own community, people who are miserly, greedy, rude, racist… how are they any superior to God-fearing, law-abiding nonMuslims? Reflect back on how many times you’ve been helped by some nonMuslim when you needed someone’s help… i’ve been helped more times than i can count.. whether it’s a nonMuslim prof, or being stranded somewhere in the middle of nowhere, out in the boonies as they say, and a total stranger comes out to help you with a map or something.
Allah Alone decides who is superior and who is not. Why do we always judge each other - for the life of me, i will never comprehend why we do this. Allah is omnipotent, we are not. How do we know who is going to heaven and who is not? There’s an ahadith to the effect that someone will be an arm’s length away from jannat and Allah will Will him to do something so bad that his sins will accumulate and he will go to dozakh; there will also be someone an arm’s length away from hell, and Allah will Will him to do something so noble that he will be granted access to paradise. So - at the end of the day, we don’t really know upon whom Allah will cast His Grace and Mercy. So why judge each other when we are so completely lacking in that particular type of knowledge ?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Nadia_H: *
i was really disturbed by a comment i read in this Forum that stated, outright, that Muslims don't have anything to learn from nonMuslims - by the simple virtue of being a Muslim, one is intellectually more superior.
....
[/QUOTE]
^ So ? That doesn’t mean we should imitate them ? Infact, if we consider our religion to be the best religion, our standards of behaviour should be even more exemplary. No?
Yes, my point was that people with right set of mind won’t think that being of a particular race/religion will imply that you have a high IQ. None should say/believe in that, be it Muslim, Jew, Nazi, Brown, Black or White (or whatever).
No. Your superiority doesn’t come because you are Muslim. Your superiority manifests itself ONLY and ONLY when you attempt to strive to lead your life like Prophet Muhammad [may Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him]. Those morals, that love, that generosity, that compassion, the piety - that’s superior. Not every Muslim leads their life like that; if someone is Muslim by name, bahir sai apnay aap ko Musulman kahtay hain, andar sai they’re drunk half the time, commit all types of sins, curse, use profanity, never give charity - are they still superior to nonMuslims ?
[QUOTE] Originally posted by Nadia_H: *
**StrongMan*,
...Your superiority doesn't come because you are Muslim. Your superiority manifests itself ONLY and ONLY when you attempt to strive to lead your life like Prophet Muhammad [may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him]. Those morals, that love, that generosity, that compassion - that's superior. ...
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That should not be taken as "intellectually superior". It may be taken as "superior" for "balance of good deeds" only, but even that should be discouraged, as only those will be superior who go to "Heaven", until then we all are competing.
Nadia, ofcourse!..I agree.
But think about your comment “if we consider our religion to be the best religion…” and the concept of superiority you brought up. I am not disagreeing with you. I Agree with you :k:
Who is superior to Allah? a good muslim, or an EQUALLY good non-muslim?
[QUOTE] Originally posted by STRONGMAN: *
**Who is superior to Allah? a good muslim, or an EQUALLY good non-muslim?
[/QUOTE]
*
Aha! Now i am on slippery grounds, aren't i?
How about i say that i feel as though Allah is better equipped than me to answer that question. Recall the dua for Istikhara - i am paraphrasing, it goes something like, Guide me and show the right decision, Allah, because verily You know and I do not, You are wise and I am not, [etc]. A Being Who is aware of every leaf that flutters onto the ground, of every insect that is born, of every type of life - microscopic or nonmicroscopic, a Being that has Created every single thing in this universe - how can i even pretend to know something that only He would know ? i mean, how can we even begin to pretend that our knowledge is anything remotely similar to Allah's ? Why not just humbly back off and say, To Allah Alone belongs that knowledge. Who knows - maybe the Muslim could do something at the very last moment of his life that Allah would despise, and the nonMuslim does something at the very last moment of his life, that Allah is Pleased with.
i mean, Allah has Created everything in this universe! Surely He, and no mortal, is better equipped to judge amongst us humans. That's my whole point for posting up this thread. Why do we always try to match our actions with Allah's [Nauzubillah]. He is the ultimate Judge. Period.
The arrogance of the Jahill and Takfiri's is not unique to Muslims..but in our case, when it happens it ensures we remain stuck with those who want to drag us into a World that will lead to our destruction. Whenever anyone coats Jahillat with religion it becomes a very destructive force in society. In the end all human beings are children of Hazrat Adam..and believing that by being Muslim you can get away with being cruel to your own people..is just sad..in my humble opinion God doesn't forgive cruelty towards human beings irrespective of whether the perpetrator is Muslim or Non Muslim.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by STRONGMAN: *
...
Who is superior to Allah? a good muslim, or an EQUALLY good non-muslim?
[/QUOTE]
Bro, the question is being a Muslim automatically makes you "intellectually" superior to others. It does not. It may make you "faith"wise superior, but not intellectually.
Nadia Bibi, I didn’t say anywhere that non-Muslim women are intellectually inferior to Muslim women.
I just found the idea of someone who comes from a society where women think freedom and equality means dressing like a prostitute and where women are respected for bust size and looks instead of personality telling Muslim women they need liberating quite amusing. It’s like pot calling the kettle black.
:k: Zakk, your comments are always refreshingly sincere and honest.
Stu, i could state a lot about the average intelligence also of people from diverse countries, especially my neighbours to the south, but then that would be taking cheap political potshots and i’m not really into that. So let’s not start a world war in this Forum, please.
Dhulfiqar, Anyways jo bhi tha - let’s not start an argument please in my thread. i really hate that. Let’s try not to respond to each other if we have nothing nice to say.
I'll just state this then, the notion that members of any religion are superior to the members of another in any way is ridiculous and part/most of the problem to the world's ills instead of part of the solution.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Nadia_H: *
i was really disturbed by a comment i read in this Forum that stated, outright, that Muslims don't have anything to learn from nonMuslims - by the simple virtue of being a Muslim, one is intellectually more superior.
In my opinion, that is a rubbish statement (i respect everyone's beliefs, but this statement is not accurate IMHO). There is no such thing as being superior to someone else simply by your religion. It is by piety, your acts of charity, your goodness, your morals, your love and respect for elders and young 'uns, that one becomes superior to someone else.
Don't even think of Muslims like Saddam Hussein, bin Laden - think of Muslims within your own community, people who are miserly, greedy, rude, racist.... how are they any superior to God-fearing, law-abiding nonMuslims? Reflect back on how many times you've been helped by some nonMuslim when you needed someone's help... i've been helped more times than i can count.. whether it's a nonMuslim prof, or being stranded somewhere in the middle of nowhere, out in the boonies as they say, and a total stranger comes out to help you with a map or something.
Allah Alone decides who is superior and who is not. Why do we always judge each other - for the life of me, i will never comprehend why we do this. Allah is omnipotent, we are not. How do we know who is going to heaven and who is not? There's an ahadith to the effect that someone will be an arm's length away from jannat and Allah will Will him to do something so bad that his sins will accumulate and he will go to dozakh; there will also be someone an arm's length away from hell, and Allah will Will him to do something so noble that he will be granted access to paradise. So - at the end of the day, we don't really know upon whom Allah will cast His Grace and Mercy. So why judge each other when we are so completely lacking in that particular type of knowledge ?
[/QUOTE]
Maybe this is inappropriate but this is something for muslims to reflect upon:
Surah Al-'Imran: 3:55
And (remember) when Allah said: "O 'Iesa (Jesus)! I will take you and raise you to Myself and clear you [of the forged statement that 'Iesa (Jesus) is Allah's son] of those who disbelieve, and I will make those who follow you (Monotheists, who worship none but Allah) superior to those who disbelieve [in the Oneness of Allah, or disbelieve in some of His Messengers, e.g. Muhammad , 'Iesa (Jesus), Musa (Moses), etc., or in His Holy Books, e.g. the Taurat (Torah), the Injeel (Gospel), the Qur'an] till the Day of Resurrection. Then you will return to Me and I will judge between you in the matters in which you used to dispute
and
Surah At-Taubah: 9:33
It is He Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad ) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam), to make it superior over all religions even though the Mushrikun (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) hate (it).
If someone can enlighten on the definition of superior here, would be interesting.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Munni: *
Maybe this is inappropriate but this is something for muslims to reflect upon:
Surah Al-'Imran: 3:55
And (remember) when Allah said: "O 'Iesa (Jesus)! I will take you and raise you to Myself and clear you [of the forged statement that 'Iesa (Jesus) is Allah's son] of those who disbelieve, and I will make those who follow you (Monotheists, who worship none but Allah) superior to those who disbelieve [in the Oneness of Allah, or disbelieve in some of His Messengers, e.g. Muhammad , 'Iesa (Jesus), Musa (Moses), etc., or in His Holy Books, e.g. the Taurat (Torah), the Injeel (Gospel), the Qur'an] till the Day of Resurrection. Then you will return to Me and I will judge between you in the matters in which you used to dispute
and
Surah At-Taubah: 9:33
It is He Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad ) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam), to make it superior over all religions even though the Mushrikun (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) hate (it).
If someone can enlighten on the definition of superior here, would be interesting.
[/QUOTE]
i think this shows that the religion is superior -- because it is truth. i don't think people are necessarily disagreeing with that.
i think what people are saying is that Muslims (as separate from Islam) can learn from everyone -- other Muslims as well as non-Muslims.
So ? That doesn’t mean we should imitate them ? Infact, if we consider our religion to be the best religion, our standards of behaviour should be even more exemplary. No?
