Charles Krauthammer should be congratulated for dismissing as absurd the question of whether Islam is inherently violent [op-ed, Dec. 6]. Unfortunately, he did not consider the history of Islam’s “bloody borders.” If they are bloody, it is because, over the past 200 years, they have been repeatedly violated by outsiders who sought to dominate Muslim people and appropriate their resources.
It was not Chechens who invaded and conquered Russia, nor did the Afghans, the Egyptians or the Pakistanis ever invade Britain. No Palestinians ever took over any Jewish villages in Russia, Poland or Germany. The Iranian secret police backed no military coups against Dwight D. Eisenhower, and the Egyptians did not conspire with the Colombians to reconquer the Panama Canal. No Arab corporations covet oil in Texas or Alaska; Arab forces do not maintain bases in Europe or North America; Arab aid has never supported military dictators in Spain, Peru or Cuba.
The notion that Muslim alienation is rooted in an obsession with recovering the glory of Islam’s medieval golden age – and is thus entirely “their” problem – is ludicrous. The sorry history of modern Western intrusion into the Middle East is far more relevant to our current crisis, whatever Mr. Krauthammer and the rest of the neoconservative punditry would have us believe.
comment: what can i say guy hit the nail on the head :k:
I guess the author never heard about the Ottoman Empire which for over 600 years conquered and ruled most of the Middle East and North Africa, Greece, the Balkan Mountains, and most of southeast Europe.
I guess it's still debatable then about who violated whom first.
The West's rise and Islam's fall over 600 years ago was due in a large part to the Christian Reformation. This societal revolution led to secluraism, capitalism and democracy. That led to power, wealth, prosperity, education and military dominance. But before that, it was Muslim armies expanding their empire. Until ME countries go through a similar transformation, they will not be able to compete and will continue to be at the short end of the stick.
I agree Semi-licious. Furthermore...the "conflict" is as much internal within the adherents of islam as it is external. Muslims can't agree what jihad really means and thus innocents die in ISrael, India, China, RUssia, Philippines, Indonesia, US, Africa, etc..etc..
True. However, how many muslims have been killed by muslims? For example let’s forget about the sectarian violence within Pakistan for a second, how many Bengali and West Pakistani Muslims killed each other in 1971 ( lets not even bring in all the kafir hindus that were killed in bengal then )? How does that number compare to all the deaths due to communal and religious violence in India since 1947?
How many afghani muslims have died at each others hands? How many muslims were killed in the Iran Iraq war? How many muslims have died in the civil war in Yemen? How many muslims killed each other in Somalia? Look at the truth squarely in the face, for only then a solution to where muslims find themselves can be found.
if i give impression muslims are angels then that not what i intended but if you look at all these conflicts internal or external they where caused and continue today because of legacy of colonial powers like britian and france and the modern day pharoah america.
Yes the colonial system did create many problems. However we also need to look at why the heck we don’t learn from history, and keep producing ‘traitors’. Many americans are standing up and questioning American policies. Believe it or not that is the way things are done here. Nobody dared question Pharoah in Egypt. In Pakistan there are 35% of the nation living below the poverty line. Feudalism is rampant. My parents come from the poor of the pakistan, and I am told by them that they were not treated like humans by the rich and powerful of the land of the Pure. Instead of blaming everything on America, look at Isloo and ask what have the feudals in power there have done for the nation in the last 55 years. Pakistan has not even created a simple school system where all the children of Pakistan can get an education. Is it possible that instead of solving the problems of the country it is easier to tell the people to concentrate on external wars?
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*Originally posted by OldLahori: *
Nobody dared question Pharoah in Egypt.
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you forgot Musa(pbuh) pharoah said to him i gave you everything treated you like a king and this how you repay me leading people to different belief and ideology, similar to today where people say oh we in europe or america they treat us so good how can we say anythign to them learn lesson from musa(pbuh)because when comes to halal and haram he always speak the truth even to tyrant like pharoah brilliant example for muslims anywhere.
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In Pakistan there are 35% of the nation living below the poverty line. Feudalism is rampant. My parents come from the poor of the pakistan, and I am told by them that they were not treated like humans by the rich and powerful of the land of the Pure.
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Poverty happens because of the inadequacies of the system the system in pakistan is totally bankrupt and is capitalist in nature i.e survival of the fittest. This will never help the people if it is allowed to continue, to say the colonialists have left and don't do anythign is not reality. If you look they have military bases within our lands and they have the economies totally relaiant on them via the pirate IMF and World Bank loans.
the colonial Raj may have left but they now have remote control colonialism via the puppets who we all know who they are. who don't even know which way to sneeze without asking there paymasters first.
I agree on one point the problem is mainly at doors of corrupt rulers and there system. All muslims should realise the system should be removed along with the rulers. Becuase changing a face does nothing because the corrupt system will ensure another idiot replaces the previous one so therefore the system needs to be changed not just a face. The reason america is attacked all time is because they activly support these corrupt regimes and this is a fact not even the most extreme biased americans can deny.
ak47: all good points. However, there a quite a few countries that were left by the colonials and are doing better than Pakistan. China, Malaysia, Korea, Thailand, Cambodia, and even India. Why is that? Again I agree with you that the international economic system is not fair and can be made fairer. How do we go about doing that, and what do we do in the mean time? Most people in Pakistan do not realise that in another 3 years most of the quota on Textiles (over 70% of Pakistan's export) are going to disappear under WTO, which is going to Pit Pakistan in complete and direct competition with China and India in textiles. Pakistani Govt. is doing diddley squat about preparing Pakistan for that.
how can the economic system be made fairer when in its nature it is based on concept of exploting the weak and vunerable.
Your example of india will get certain services jobs like call centre jobs from american because it cheaper, tommrow burma will offer cheaper costs those jobs from india will move to burma next day and so on you get the picture!
The countries you mentioned where colonized in one way or another i mean even today in korea they protesting against americans who preventing unification between north and south also protesting against 40,000 GI Joes based there to go home while americans saying we not going no where!
Pakistan the government is actually opening it textile sector to american companies who complaining Pakistan producing cheaper cotton than them!
ak47:
What you write is reasonable. Now consider that you are mentioning that jobs from India will move to Burma when the labor there will be cheaper and services provided the same. Where did these jobs originate in the first place? USA is going through a down turn and is losing a lot of IT jobs that have left its shores to China and India primarily. These were good jobs. These were held by Americans who are now without jobs and some of them will not find equivalent jobs in the near future. It is not a zero sum game, in that there is a fixed number of jobs. The idea is to create a situation so that everyone has jobs. Not to create a bureacracy that will dole out jobs. It does not matter whether the bureacracy is contolled by the Mullahs as in Iran, or the Military as in pakistan, or the babus as in India, for it invariably results in corruption and the poor guy getting the shaft. Think, that USA is saying if the jobs can be done better in Burma then they should be in Burma, if they can be done better in Pakistan then let them be in Pakistan. So in a way it is not a bad thing that jobs will fly to Burma but a good thing. The bad thing is if the Indians decide that are not going to educate their population, or equip them to compete for the good jobs in the global market. Then they will not be creating more jobs but will find the quality and number of jobs going down. You need to be asking if Pakistan is concentrating on providing good jobs for its citizens. Pakistan's competitor in the near future is not USA but China and India! Even Europe and USA are having a hard time competing with the education being provided by the Chinese and the Indians to their citizens.
the economies of the countries like pakistan and india etc will always be behind america and europe.
Why is this because the basis of pakistan and india economies is not industrial it is services or agriculture. they will always be rotating around the peanut services america gives them.
The industrial basis is the key if pakistan wants to progress it need to invest in industry as an example american military produced microchip this microchip spinoff include calculator, computer, micrwave etc i.e after its initial military use it became a tool to help population aswell as produce multi uses and create other businesses and creat commerce around the microchip.
In Islamic state the industrial basis is part of the military department and you will see the kind of equipment and technology spinoffs from this.
Also pakistan has so many resources and minerals what is it doing with it, its get outside companies to take these resources why don;t the invest in the thousands of unemployed graduates they have to do the jobs these outside companies are doing such as drilling the oil, research etc
america has microsoft if you want to compete what do you need to do produce your own home grown products to compete after all microsoft started off in some basement garage. I am sure china india or pakistan has capability to produce home grown products just takes investment.
The markets of asia, middle east are packed with western products the markets of west are packed with western products the asians will never be allowed a free market as the capitalist claim there you can see the flaws in capitalism it works one way only!
Yes you are absolutely correct in that Pakistan needs to invest to gainfully employ its people. The first requirement is that the people need is decent education. Second is building on its strength. If Pakistan is strong in agriculture then it should build on its strength. There are many many medical doctors from Pakistan that are here in USA. Many of them could not find a good job in Pakistan. They have been here since last 30 , 40 years. No one told them that they were no good because they are from pakistan or because they are muslim. Now some of them hold very very good positions. What has Pakistan done to help its people in the last 50 years? How much investment has gone in providing education, and work to the people? The microchip did not come over night. It required an infra structure behind it. Now the competition is going to be world wide. If Pakistan wants to compete then the students there are going to have spend a lot of time learning physics, chemistry, mathematics, engineering etc. If they will not, it is going to get harder and harder. Iranians have built a good educational system in the last 30 years. So have the Indians. So have the Sri Lankans. The point is that it is the people in Pakistan who have to decide that they want to spend time to build and make Pakistan a better place for all its people, and not only for the very few feudals and the big waderas, or big zamindars etc. Atleast everyone's kid should get clean water to drink, and a chance to go to school till he is 16! Beleive it or not I do think that economies of India and Pakistan can be as good as America and Europe within a few generation if people there really want it. Look at singapore, malaysia, thailand etc. They did it in less than 50 years!!
