Re: Muslims converting to other religouns?
Why do you people welcome people converts into Islam, but curse the people who left it? Why on the road of life should someone who found peace on another path suddenly be your enemy?
Re: Muslims converting to other religouns?
Kaleem:
I wasn't talking about your references - I'm speaking in general to the original poster and what the article is about that he posted. Things need to be taken in context - if he's upset that pple got killed - well, then one needs to look at the context - WHY did it happen (hence why I posted a separate thread on it).
For Allah will collect the hypocrites and those who defy faith - all in Hell. - Quranic verse.
I absolutely accept this. This statement does not say that "Human governments should collect hypocrites and those who defy faith and throw them in hell".
:)
Re: Muslims converting to other religouns?
because tolernace is not a virtue derived from that faith. after 1500 years if you are still arguing whether it is right to kill someone who leaves your religion, you are not going to be adding much to humanity I am afraid.
Re: Muslims converting to other religouns?
Ahh, but bombing the crap out of people adds much to humanity…right?
Re: Muslims converting to other religouns?
^ there is no divine mandate prescribing that...we are discussing religion here. America might be wrong form time to time...but is god also wrong?If God is wrong, then he betta go back to school.
Re: Muslims converting to other religouns?
There is no symmetry between the two acts. Needless to say, I think the line between treason and apostasy (in our history, it was always treason ACTS that were punished)…but long ago we decided to blur the lines.
Re: Muslims converting to other religouns?
You’re dodging the issue. How does bombing people add to humanity? Methinks you got bigger fish to fry than worry about the handful of apostates who may (or may not) get punished. Now, an analogous statement would be that the bombings imply that America has NOTHING to offer humanity (a view I don’t share). For the same reason this statement is absurd, so is yours.
God is never wrong…only His followers.
Re: Muslims converting to other religouns?
Go into world affairs open a thread on Bombing of civilians/military/.wars etc and we can discuss this. Any religion that prescribes killing of an ex-believer doesn;t garner much respect I am afraid, particularly when the adherents of the same religion carry a chip on their shoulder the size of mount rushmore about tolerance towards them. that is the crux.
If GOD prescribes death to those who leave islam, then GOD is a petulant child that needs a pacifier, and some soft music before being put to sleep.
If God's doesn;t prescribe death to those who leave islam and if the message is being corrupted by some morons from that faith, then it should be cleared up ina unified manner. It seems when there is misinterpretation of islamic tenets,innocents die. too high a cost for humanity to bear. that's why the sweeping indictment.
Re: Muslims converting to other religouns?
And yet the followers constantly use god to justify their actions despite the fact that they know they are prone to error! 
And many people actually support these people… It seems that when its convenient Muslims will say god wants us to do such and such, and when its not convenient, well then god is never wrong but his followers are…!
Re: Muslims converting to other religouns?
Why would god, who is all powerfull, all seeing, all everything, need man to do his work? If Daud converts and becomes Dave, why does god need Habib to kill Dave for the “crime” of converting?
God could simply send a lightening bolt to kill Dave himself, or let dave suffer and take it up with him. It makes no sense for God to force man to become vigalantes for his sake, when its clearly a conflict between god and Dave. I mean is god that petty?
Its sorta like making one of your kids punish one of your other kids for doing something wrong.. Just not rght!
Re: Muslims converting to other religouns?
I dont know, betrayal can be a b1tch and its painful, but I dont think its an offence punishable by death. A huge betrayal possibly, but I should think that someone who is the representative of the must loving and forgiving of entitie in the Universe could have forgiven them by giving them a far more humane punishment. I will admit that given the situation it was more convenient to simply have them killed, but wasnt the Prophet supposed to be a breath of fresh air? Couldnt he have changed the rules, couldnt he have forgiven them in the hope that they might support him for his generosity?
And regardless of how difficult it is to prove, the point is that he punishment doesnt fit the crime. And despite the fact that its so difficult to prove, how is it that people have been punished for this crime? Its something that can easily be abused.. So why in all his wisdom did god choose to allow such a barbaric punishment? Its like giving a ten year old a loaded gun!
Re: Muslims converting to other religouns?
Don’t tell me kid, tell it to your bretheren who think that killing someone who leaves islam is ordained by islam. In fact, let the fatwa mongers issue one comprehensive view on this, as I said, misinterpretation of islamic tenets causes death…not acceptable.
Re: Muslims converting to other religouns?
Betryal that causes hurt emotions is one thing. Betrayl that could lead to the execution of all your people is another. Most Jewish tribes were expelled. This one tribe was an exception because the Prophet (pbuh) didn’t decide their fate.
Eh? Sa’d had no such status. Given past history, the Prophet (pbuh) would have simly exiled the tribe. Interestingly, that would not have been strategically smart as that wouldn’t prevent the Jews from aiding their pagan allies.
Let us not forget that ALL the men were fighting men.
Re: Muslims converting to other religouns?
So basically you can’t answer the question.
Yet death for treason (depending on circumstance) is a-okay? Why the double standards for religion? The argument that it’s devinely mandated doesn’t wash…as this is in fact Muslim policy and not Islamic theology per sae.
There is no central authority, so this for ANYTHING is impossible.
Yet when other “enlightened” people make decisions where MILLIONS of innocents die, it’s NOT a high cost for humanity? There simply is no comparision.
My point is the scope and extent of your rage and rehtoric simply doesn’t jive with the nature of the offense, and when coupled with the fact that you are writing from the perspecitve of an “enlightened” civlization that has in fact killed orders of magnitudes of more innocents than Muslims have killed apostates…I just can’t take your posturing seriously.
As I said, Muslims make mistakes too…i.e. we can play this game too.
Re: Muslims converting to other religouns?
So when are we going to see the PakPatriot's testimonial or appearance on CBN flanked by Pat Robertson...
Re: Muslims converting to other religouns?
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No, I can answer you question but not here..take it WA or culture and I will do it.
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Just because you say it is muslim policy and not islamic policy makes it so?? You guys can;t even agree if wearing lipstick is haram or not…
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No central authority is no excuse for a lack of commons sense
rest of your post is drivel
Re: Muslims converting to other religouns?
Just a useless thread...unnecessary argument guys.
Those who do not want to accept will never accept.
Re: Muslims converting to other religouns?
asalaam alaikum, don't know if im on topic (it was about people converting out of islam right?) or not..but isn't this what it says?
Allah says: “Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth has been made clear from error. Whoever rejects false worship and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that never breaks. And Allah hears and knows all things.” [Sûrah al-Baqarah: 256]
so if someone decides to reject islam without giving a insulting testimony of it..aren't we supposed to keep ourselves out of it? anyways..ultimately Allah swt is the bigger judge here..so wouldn't a wrong doer get his punishment regardless of what we decide to do? so if we're this unsure and cant decide amongst ourselves of how to deal with the situation..shudn't we leave it up to Allah swt..and just go on with our lives?
Re: Muslims converting to other religouns?
Assalamualaikum wa rahmatullah,
Concerning the death of a person who leaves Islam.
I want to say, If there was a citizen in the U.S who commited treason by helping enemies of the state devise a terrorist attack on the country, no doubt would he be executed by the U.S for his betrayal. Hoewever, I do not see people arguing about that to the american goverment (because it makes sense).
Now imagine the person who believed in his Lord, and then abandons that truth. What greater treason is there than that? After having believed, you ABANDON the one who created you out of nothing! Gave you the the blessing of sight, and hearing, of being able to eat, of aqal, etc.! Look at those around you who are blind or deaf, and yet you disobey God! And Allah mentions in the Qur'an that you could not count in your lifetime his blessings that he bestows upon you. And after having believed in this truth, you abandon him?!!? What greater a betrayal in life than this? What greater sin is there in life than this? When looking at the first example, compared to this, the first is miniscule, like a drop in the ocean. So even if you tried to argue the first and succeeded- there would be no way to do so for this. This is the REALITY of Islam.
And Keep in mind, that Islam came to bring people from the worship of the creation to the worship of the creator! From falsehood to truth! It came to establish justice and wipe out injustice! This can only occur with the establishment of Islam (the religion Allah has chosen for mankind). So how can peace and tranquility be amongst the people or anyone, when they disobey GOd and do such a thing. Only by obeying his laws and being obedient to him, will anyone find true inner-peace and salvation. (And the righteous Muslims will testify to this tranquility). By the one who created you, there is not much more that is worse than this (betrayal of truth and justice).
As for those who claim, why doesnt God himself punish them. This is the talk of ignorance, without doubt. Had God wanted to do such himself, there would be no need for laws, or even our existance. He would control ALL of our affairs (which, by the way, is not out of reach of his infinite powers). Rather, unlike the angels, he gave humans and jinn the power of 'choice', as a test (refer to Quran) and this is our purpose in life- Shall we obey him who put us here or disobey him. In some ways, God does interfere and reward or punish. These are his decrees, and to question them is foolish. It is like the one who has no knowledge of the market (bazaar) and he angrily asks to the seller why do you put this item at a higher price than the other? Are they not the same thing (referring to two items that appear to be the same)? yet he does not realize the fact that they differ in quality- being the reason in their price difference. By saying this, I mean that, the one who questions the decree and commands of his lord does this out of ignorance. he does not understand their benefits or the wisdom behind it and he thinks arrogantly full of pride, and thus he usually dies in that state (a kafir).
The MAIN purpose of Islam is the call and practice of believing that Allah is one and Unique in his lordship, his names and attributes, and his right to be worshipped. So we obey him, even if we dont understand the reason for it. But to learn the reason for it is good, as it motivates the spirit to WANT to obey that command.
So those of you who don't believe in this, take the chance to read the qur'an (in context, and not out of context) and give it some thought. For anyone who really wants to learn more about Islam, you can private message me or email me at [email="[email protected]"][email protected]. If you want the explanation of an ayah, you can ask me. I am no scholar or student of knowledge, but I can ask the scholars. And give Allah his right, become Muslim (THIS IS AN OPEN INVITATION FOR ANYONE TO ACCEPT ISLAM) side note: if you disagree with anything, you have that CHOICE to do so, i am not forcing my views upon you. And if I offended you personally, it was unintentional, I only meant to convey to you a message that has been alive since the creation of Adam. Indeed, any mistakes I make in wording are of my own, and anything I have said that is true is from Allah.
And Allah knows best
Re: Muslims converting to other religouns?
Asalamualiakum:(may pease and mercy on you)
Mr. Patriot r u a Muslim? if you r a Muslim then I feel Sorry For you 
cause u r the victim of western media and the websites like answeringislam
this answeringislam and some other sites is not made to promote Islam but is made for degrade Islam by the non-Muslim. so pls do not blieve in then they want to lead u to the wrong path so do not visit these sites.
now they have injured your iiman (fath). now you have many misconceptions as a result of it.
but do not worry give you some doctors(doctors of fath) addresses(web sites)
If you want to seek the truth you should visit these sites.
may Allah give u guidense.
http://www.irf.net
http://www.islamtomorrow.com
http://www.harunyahya.com