Muslim women who refused full-body scan are barred from flight

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
81

you don't speak German or Japanese thanks to the Americans winning the world war.

It is called leadership - but for Americans coming to your aid there is good chance the Russians would have spread past Afghanistan to Pakistan by now for all you know.

I have already told you why America invaded Iraq - because Saddam Hussein was playing cat&mouse games on nuclear inspections with UN. Given his history of invading Kuwait, America and the rest of civilized world could not take a chance on this guy and give him the benefit of doubt.

Finally you do know at least why Afghanistan was invaded - 9/11 OBL Taleban etc.

So may be Pakistanis should stop objecting to American everything even while taking billions in aid from them

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Re: Muslim women who refused full-body scan are barred from flight

^I would not mind speaking German or Japanese. If japan was so pro-invasion then it wouldn't be so closed off to immigration. Same goes for Germany, it's a little more flexible I suppose. America is not showing leadership, it's bullying other countries into giving their resources to America. If you believe otherwise then congratulations, the American media got you just like it got the rest of America.

It is giving Pakistan $10 billion in aid and taking its innocent people to throw in Guantanamo bay for torture. It's buying lives now! Pakistan has no choice but to comply. Most of these suspects have nothing to do with Al-Qaeda or any terrorist organization!

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The point is, it was not necessary! Japan surrendered BEFORE it got bombed.

84

This is not true!

Japanese did not surrender until after the second bomb.

There are reports that they were planning to surrender, but no formal offer had been made by the Japanese.

Miss Noland,

Your stance of WWII is a heavily influenced by the anti-war lobby's rhetoric.

Before we cry big tears about Japanese and Germans and Italians, you gotta account for 100s of 1000s of Allied civilians and soldiers who lost everything due to a war that was clearly imposed on them by the axis of evil.

I appreciate your humanistic stance on things, but it is not good to get carried away by emotions while forgetting the atrocities committed by Japanese, Germans and Italians.

85

Says who? what more do you need to surrender when your entire military has been defeated?! Japan had nothing left to do more damage when America decided to bomb Hiroshima. The Japanese requested Soviet to help them settle the matter, why wasn't it accepted? The Japanese wanted to end the war BEFORE the two cities were bombed! It wasn't in writing, but they were willing to end the war. It was completely unnecessary.

I am not denying what the Germans and Japanese did but the point is America did a whole lot more damage and it was so inhumane. No country played a role of a saint during WWII but I can't bring myself to justify the Hiroshima Nagasaki bombings in any way possible.

86

You call them "defeated" AND defeated on a specific front!

You "Surrender" ONLY when you raise the white flag, AND when you agree to the terms of surrender.

I think you need some serious study on the "rules of war".

it is not a child's play where you setup a mock tea table, and invite your 3 year old friends and do a mock tea party.

War is a serious and REAL business, and anti-war leftie groups usually have no inkling of the reality anyways. They live in their own la la land.

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Re: Muslim women who refused full-body scan are barred from flight

^ It is as serious as you make it! I would rather live in my lala land then subject myself to this cruelty. Whatever. War, violence, injustice are all our creation. We make rules to kill our own kind but we won't make rules to work around it. Way to go humanity...

This first rule of any war is excluding unnecessary destruction, no?. So when you violate the very first law then why does the rest matter? BTW, the Geneva Conventions was made official in 1949, which then declared Genocide of an ethnic group prohibited. The Atomic Bombs were dropped in 1945.

P.S. I was in Army ROTC for 3 years. I learned nothing! War is unnecessary and so are its rules. I don't care how much you men like violence, it's inhumane.

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Japan still had military forces, including guns, ammunition, planes, torpedos, etc. Enough armaments to continue to fight against an invading force, as required by the Samurai honour code, Bushido, that its generals subscribed to.

You are right that Japan wanted to end the war. However, they wanted a negotiated surrender, where Japan would be able to have a say on the conditins of the end of the war.

The USA, UK, and China has agreed in July that the only way Japan would be allowed to surrender would be unconditionally, with Japan's military completely disbanded. Their goal was to ensure that Japan would never again be able to possess offensive weapons, and to ensure that Japan would have a pacificst goverment that would never again seek to attack another country.

Japan refused such terms, which clearly indicated they wanted to have the option to wage war again later.

Germany surrendered unconditionally when it realised it could no longer fight. Italy surrendered unconditionally when it reailsed it could no longer fighter. Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary all surrendered unconditionally when they could no longer fight.

If Japan could no longer fight, if Japan knew it was all over.... why did Japan not accept the unconditional surrender that was offered?

The Japanese cut the head off of my dadi's only brother and threw him into a mass grave from which his body has never been identified.

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Each war is different with its unique circumstances. And one can argue about them until the kingdom comes.

No one likes war. Not by a bit.

However once your homeland is threatened or attacked, then one has to have balls to get up and fight for your country.

That's all.

This discussion however is specifically about WW-II. If you don't think Allies were on the side of evil, then one can only say! Best wishes to you Miss.

However if you believe that the Allies were on the side of good, then one case discuss the options available at THAT time and if the generals and planners took the right decisions.

90

Re: Muslim women who refused full-body scan are barred from flight

:smack:

This is such a non-issue. There are bigger issues in this world, like famine, poverty etc.

Just walk through the damn thing and ask for a print-out as a souvenir. You can pin it on your fridge :smiley:

91

I see. I guess Japan didn't realize America had guts to bomb them. You are right, if Japan could no longer fight, it should have accepted the surrender. In any case, I am not denying that Japan had intentions to invade other countries, but the atomic bombs were not the solution.

[quote]
The Japanese cut the head off of my dadi's only brother and threw him into a mass grave from which his body has never been identified.
[/quote]

That's horrible. I am sorry to hear that.

92

GUESS! You guess! that Japan DIDN'T realize?

What is your documented source about this japanese thought process. Any memo? or letter? something that Japanese emperor said? or even a lowly admiral in Japanese Navy left as a note to self?

You say you were in ROTC! Did you ever get to read the WW-II history? I don't mean anti-war websites, I mean real history, like memos of Allied leaders, and the memos and letters of Axis leaders? Any thing that supports your assertion that Jpaan didn't realize that Americans had guts?

Any source?

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Re: Muslim women who refused full-body scan are barred from flight

:smack: That’s why I said “I guess” as in they didn’t really “believe” it would actually get bombed. Japan was warned, wasn’t it? But the Japanese probably didn’t think the Allies would really bomb the 2 cities. I am sure the Japanese didn’t think the Allies were talking about “Atomic” bombs. Japan was kind of stupid to just shrug it off. In a way, America misled the Japanese with deceptive warnings. The bombings were not only inhumane but so deceitful. Had Japan been told the bombs would be atomic, I am sure they would have “officially” surrendered right away.

ROTC doesn’t teach jack, so no, I learned about the Vietnam war but hardly anything about the WWII.

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So all your world history knowledge is based on “guess work”? Very good!

p.s. Bombing of civilians is inhumane. Be it via A-Bomb or the B-Bomb, or … Z-bomb.

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Re: Muslim women who refused full-body scan are barred from flight

^No just that comment. When I say "I guess" it's because I am unsure not because the rest of what I have said is based on guess work. Besides, I was born 2(?) generations later so some of it is handed down info and the rest comes from biased American history literature.

If it makes you feel any better, I am anti-war and I have nothing good to say about ANY wars that took place. Now there you go, label me with whatever stereotypes.

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Very few of those millions of people are alive now who saw the active combat in WWII.

Thus being born 2 generations ago is not a unique thingy. And it should not be an excuse either.

There are tons of books on WW-II that cover pretty much every conceivable angle. Therefore simple "guess" work cannot replace hard documentary evidence.

As I said before!

It is OK to be anti-war.

However it is not OK to ignore the realities that existed during the WW-II.

Remember! We can all do the Monday morning quarter-backing and do it very very well.

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I am not using this as an excuse and I never claimed that I had all the knowledge in the world about WWII.

[quote]
There are tons of books on WW-II that cover pretty much every conceivable angle. Therefore simple "guess" work cannot replace hard documentary evidence.
[/quote]

True, there are but most are biased. In any case, when I say "I guess" that obviously should be clear to you that I don't necessarily know that part of my comment. If I were sure I wouldn't say "I guess." This doesn't mean you dismiss everything else in my post as guess work.

[quote]
As I said before!

It is OK to be anti-war.

However it is** not OK** to ignore the realities that existed during the WW-II.

Remember! We can all do the Monday morning quarter-backing and do it very very well.
[/quote]

I never ignored any realities, I fully realize what the Japanese intended to do and stopping them was important but they did NOT deserve the atomic bombs. That's my only point.

Yes, we can all sit down to bash and criticize others and do it very well that's why I usually only see men participating in these useless threads. It's one thing to know and have an opinion about it but things quickly turn ugly when you start imposing them on others. That's why I have my opinions and that is it was wrong of America to drop the bombs. You and others can argue all night if you like but it is not going to change my opinion or any anti-war activist's opinion for that matter..

War was, is, and has always been about greed and power. It has never ever been about justice. That's why I am against it. I am not against self-defense, that's different. Men go to war to feed their ego and greed, never justice.

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Re: Muslim women who refused full-body scan are barred from flight

^^ Can you explain the reasons "Why they did not deserve the atomic bombs".

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Re: Muslim women who refused full-body scan are barred from flight

Here is another though on this subject. Would you have preferred that the Allies kept on conventional defence against the AXis powers for a prolonged decade or more? That would have ensured a lot more death and destruction and misery.

Instead, heart-wrenching bombing was done and then japan got re-built into a modern vibrant nation

100

I don't like the idea of body scan. I like the idea of getting blown to bits even less.