but why does the non muslim have to convert at all?? To them their religion is just as precious as islam is to that person's lover.
When you fall in love with a person that is not of your religion you have already given love more importance than your religion.
so the second step is to think about the human side of the issue rather than just the religious side of it or else just give up on the relationship.
** the love and sacrifice should not just be given from the nonmuslim side.
**
I have nothing against muslim+nonmuslim marriages(for me it's better than the usual riots and killings seen on the news), as long as the conversions to either religion is banned by law.
i'm sorry but i entirely disagree with you there, Niksik... there is no compulsion in Islam. you cannot force anyone to change their religion and emotionally blackmail them into doing it by telling them "if you loved me, you'd do this for me"... i'd rather be with someone who is honest to himself and his beliefs, than with someone who would simply say the words and convert to please others.
put yourself in the guy's situation... would you ever give up one of your beliefs or principles for the person you love, even if its something that you don't agree with? would you do it for society? say eating pork was fundamental to their personal beliefs. and they said, if you loved me, you'd eat pork with me. what would you do?
simply saying the shahada does not a muslim make- the process of conversion is based on what is in your dil and your niyat- not on words. i know a lot of muslim guys who were born muslim but barely practice and go out of their way to smoke, drink, and date. is it better to marry someone like that? or to marry someone who makes you happy, is a good person inside, and shares your values and principles? Allah is the one who gives "hidayat" to all of us, and Allah knows best- perhaps this is part of His plan and all we can do is pray that Allah does what is best for us. there is a lesson in everything.
perhaps marrying a non-Muslim is the way to bring both parties closer to Islam somehow? perhaps it is "meant to be"? who are we to judge? the best anyone can do is stick to their beliefs (whatever they are) as closely as possible and pray to Allah for guidance and forgiveness.
Yes, there is no compulsion in Islam. The reason for conversion is mainly so that both parents are on the same page when raising their children. I feel the home is more harmonious if everyone is doing the same thing and not confused whether to go to let's say the masjid or the mandir...or both, like many film stars are doing these days.
Love is one thing and being practical is another thing.
Now why the sacrifice must come from the non-muslim? Because let's say in an example of Hindu religion, there is no requirement in Hindus to marry only Hindus. It is highly recommended but there is nothing in the holy books. In Islam, it is clearly defined. So it is just natural to follow a clear path than a general recommendation.
At the end of the day, it is not a battle...just some basic rules that enhance a marriage. But I guess we all can have a different take on this.
i'm sorry but i entirely disagree with you there, Niksik... there is no compulsion in Islam. you cannot force anyone to change their religion and emotionally blackmail them into doing it by telling them "if you loved me, you'd do this for me"... i'd rather be with someone who is honest to himself and his beliefs, than with someone who would simply say the words and convert to please others.
put yourself in the guy's situation... would you ever give up one of your beliefs or principles for the person you love, even if its something that you don't agree with? would you do it for society? say eating pork was fundamental to their personal beliefs. and they said, if you loved me, you'd eat pork with me. what would you do?
simply saying the shahada does not a muslim make- the process of conversion is based on what is in your dil and your niyat- not on words. i know a lot of muslim guys who were born muslim but barely practice and go out of their way to smoke, drink, and date. is it better to marry someone like that? or to marry someone who makes you happy, is a good person inside, and shares your values and principles? Allah is the one who gives "hidayat" to all of us, and Allah knows best- perhaps this is part of His plan and all we can do is pray that Allah does what is best for us. there is a lesson in everything.
perhaps marrying a non-Muslim is the way to bring both parties closer to Islam somehow? perhaps it is "meant to be"? who are we to judge? the best anyone can do is stick to their beliefs (whatever they are) as closely as possible and pray to Allah for guidance and forgiveness.
Well, I never said that anything about emotional blackmail...I just said if you love some, you could certain things for them.
Now why the sacrifice must come from the non-muslim? Because let's say in an example of Hindu religion, there is no requirement in Hindus to marry only Hindus. It is highly recommended but there is nothing in the holy books. In Islam, it is clearly defined. So it is just naturalto follow a clear path than a general recommendation.
Yes there is nothing in the hindu holy books that states that a person should convert but if you're in love enough with a hindu or any non muslim, then it would be better for the marriage if religion wasn't put above love, caring and respect.
That's why I wish that there was some law that would ban conversions based on falling in love or based on marrying someone that is not of your religion.
conversions should only happen if you seriously like the religion and you want to as an individual and you are not influenced by other means(falling in love, money, pregnancy b4 marriage, etc)
Have any of you imagined what it must be like for the convertee even a willing one to change their religion and fit into another perhaps totally opposite outlook religion?
I agree with Niksik...you got to be on the same page...but in order to do that, the best way is to let time and nature take its course. If there is mutual love and respect and you believe in the goodness and power of your religion and you take the initiative to set a good example, then chances are that the spouse will follow that path. In the meantime, you need to be patient and have faith.
Conversion to a different religion or culture is easier when you assimilate into it slowly. You got to be living that way of life in order to start fitting in. The reqirement is change before we get married and that is where the difficulty may lie.
Niksik you are right there are may who have converted and are happy with their new beliefs, but there would be a lot more in that category if they were given the chance.
Well, I never said that anything about emotional blackmail...I just said if you love some, you could certain things for them.
love is an emotion and that emotion is affecting the way you see certain issues.
isn't it like emotional blackmail in a way because this non muslim loves you so much but then to a muslim the words of the quran are all that are important not the emotion of love they might feel for their significant other.
again conversions should only happen when you are not influenced by outside factors such as love
and if you're a muslim person and your religion is more important to you then I feel it is best to just give up on the relationship than the "marrying for love" thing because the marriage wouldn't succeed anyway
Well, I hope that it doesn't feel like a blackmail to the one converting. Hopefully they would have discussed religious issues and get married when they are really ready for the responsibilities that come with marriage.
*Do not marry [your daughters] to idolaters until they believer in Islam. A believering slave is better than a [free] idolater, though the latter please you. These call you to the Fire, but Allah calls you, by His will, to the Garden and to forgiveness. He makes plain His revelations to mankind, that perhaps they will think'' (Qur'an, 2:221) *
A female Muslim is not permissible for a disbeliever ---this is incontrovertible and certain !!!
on your topic .. Inno bahi ... i know couple of ladies .. born in muslim families .. now living with hindu guys ..
women sorry to disappoint you but there are some lines you just can't cross.
I mean you can cross them, but crossing them also means you are stepping out of the boundaries of faith.
I mean this the thing with women they don't do wrong things, the want to feel right all the time. Even If they doing such a thing.
I feel strongly about the issue because I know some one who is doing it.
Do it if you want to but don't try backing it up with Islam that clearly disowns people crossing this line.
Not allowed? sure..
but if someone does this do they cease to be muslim? I am not sure
could you show where it says that?
just trying to clarify it
Yeah...a condition...but it's all for the best. (Hopefully)
i don't think you should place conditions on your love, or the people you love...
if it matters so much to you, then break up. but you cannot love someone "if", you know?
also religion is not the only qualification for a stable household and raising normal, healthy, happy kids... theres a lot more to it and religion is ONE factor. if you have enough other commonalities, then i think theres an equal chance of things working out.
Not allowed? sure..
but if someone does this do they cease to be muslim? I am not sure
could you show where it says that?
just trying to clarify it
X2, if a muslim lady daoes that, she would not become non-muslim, she will still be a muslim who is commiting Zina
and before some one jumps to the guns, no she would not be subjected to stoned to death, only 100 lashes unless she was married to a muslim and without divorce, ran away with a non-muslim.
EVen a muslim guy cannnot marry a non-muslim. The only exception is Jew and Christian lady, if she agrees that kids would be raised mulims.
Converting to Islam for any reason is OK. Many people during the time of prophet converted to Islam because of fear of loosing life when they became prisoner of war