she's been an active vocal for human rights in iran for almost 20 years now. same goes for many others in other muslim countries like egypt, saudia and whole of ME. how come none of them got nobel peace prize and how come she got it now and not before. how come all of a sudden her human rights agenda became so important and significant to the west? largly bcos iran is one of axis of evil nicely put by bush and his admin. this nobel prize contains a huge political backing to over throw the current regiem in iran and everyone knows overthrowing of regeims in the past have left thousands dead and millions homeless. whether this will happen in iran or no is yet to be seen. but seeds had been planted by giving her move freedom through this nobel prize. she can try to use it in any way she likes to spread her mission and agenda but how people will interpret is the real thing.
‘Sorry teacher!’
Ibn Sadique,
If we are not casting judgements against her, then why haven't we given her the benefit of the doubt and instead of saying that this is a "kufr" award with a political agenda behind it, why don't we instead focus on the work that she is doing, using Islam as a tool in her work. Is that so problematic? Do you not agree that this practice of pointing fingers at each other, at our own selves, is dividing us? i am sure you have come across that ahadith where Prophet Muhammad, may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him, is reported to have stated that the 'ummah' is such that if one part [the allegory being made was towards the human body] feels pain, then the whole body feels pain. Similarly, instead of us jumping up and down to judge her so harshly, why don't we take a collective moment to breathe, stop, think, and ask ourselves - Is she doing something that is compatible with Islam, is she waging a jihad that Allah would be pleased with? What can be greater than helping women and children, except perhaps helping orphans ? You know the answer to this as well as i do - how much glory does Islam place upon helping those most vulnerable. If she had been offered a scientific award for some technological development she had assisted in, then would we still call it a 'kufr' invention and proclaim to say it was a political agenda? No, we would not. Infact we would praise her and say 'May this type of success continue InshaAllah'. So why the hypocrisy?
Quote of Iran's President Mohammad Khatami form your post above (quoted below) seems that he is thinking in the same lines. I think he should know better than all of us here.
Why ? Because he is male ? Those who know better, in reality, are the poverty-stricken women and children that Shirin Ebadi has helped, not President Khatami, not me, and not anyone else who has been in that position of disadvantaged financial and social circumstances. Ask the orphan Iranian child, or the Iranian widow who lost her husband and her means of financial support, whether to them Shirin Ebadi is accepting a "kufr" award or whether she is fighting for something important that Allah would be pleased with.
[quote]
she can try to use it in any way she likes to spread her mission and agenda but how people will interpret is the real thing.
[/quote]
The "real" thing, in MY personal opinion, is that we are more worried about the Zionist agenda and meanwhile, our Muslim orphans are dying by their thousands each day. i don't know which is a greater threat, sometimes - our indifference to the social welfare of others, or our obsession with political agendas genuine or not. Muslim governments could also have awarded Mr. Edhi's organization with financial aid, when was the last time we heard that the Saudi government gave Mr. Edhi's organization any money? Whether or not there is a political agenda, frankly i don't really care - trust me, i am not your typical soft-towards-US kind of person. BGJ, you know my type of posts in the World Affairs Forum, i am as (so-called) "anti-American" as they get. My concern though is that, we are worried about issues that are seemingly not as important (political agendas) as real issues affecting real people, on the ground (Iranian children and women). We should work with Shirin Ebadi, use Islam as the means of the solution to the problems today. By singling her out for criticism, all we have shown is that our condition is so weak we cannot bear to engage in constructive discussions. She is doing one of the best things, one of the best jihads, a person could do - instead of asking Allah for the opportunity that we may also get to earn that much sawaab, we're obsessed with Jewish agendas. Even if they do exist, isn't it a disproportional amount of attention.
Islamic website: http://www.iviews.com/Articles/articles.asp?ref=IV0310-2111
**Nobel Surprise **
Muslim Iranian lawyer Shirin Ebadi, a human rights and democracy activist, has been awarded the 2003 Nobel Peace Prize. Ms. Ebadi has worked tirelessly to promote the rights of women and children in Iran and worldwide. She is the first Muslim woman to win the award.
“As a lawyer, judge, lecturer, writer and activist, she has spoken out clearly and strongly in her country, Iran, far beyond its borders,” the awards committee said in the citation.
In her research and as an activist, she is known for promoting peaceful, democratic solutions to serious problems in society. She takes an active part in the public debate and is well known and admired by the general public in her country for her defense of freedom of speech and political freedom.
She is the founder and leader of the Association for Support of Children’s Rights in Iran. Ebadi has written a number of academic books and articles focused on human rights. Among her books translated into English are The Rights of the Child. A Study of Legal Aspects of Children’s Rights in Iran (Tehran, 1994), published with support from UNICEF, and History and Documentation of Human Rights in Iran (New York, 2000).
Ms. Ebadi served as Iran’s first female judge during the Shah’s era. But after the 1979 revolution, Islamic clerics ruled that women could not sit as judges. That interpretation of Sharia law is now coming under question and some clerics have called for allowing women judges.
At a news conference in Paris Ms. Ebadi said that in her view, “there is no difference between Islam and human rights.”
The newly awarded Noble Laurite also added that she opposed any foreign intervention in Iran. [Does this allay our propaganda concerns?]
“The fight for human rights is conducted in Iran by the Iranian people and we are against any foreign intervention in Iran,” she said.
In Rome the news was received with some disappointment where Pope John Paul II was being considered among the favorites to win the prize. A Vatican source said Pope John Paul II will send a message of congratulations to Ms. Shirin Ebadi.
In Washington, spokesmen at the White House and the State Department applauded the recognition for Ms. Ebadi.
European leaders appeared jubilant over the selection of an Iranian woman who works as an advocate for human rights. President Jacques Chirac of France called her an “exceptional choice,” and Chancellor Gerhard Schroder of Germany celebrated her dedication to “tolerant coexistence and an understanding between cultures.”
Conservatives in Iran who run the judiciary are cautious in recognizing this award and see it as outsiders now trying to intervene in Iranian politics. But Iran’s reformist Government says it is “happy” with the awarding of the Nobel Peace Prize.
“We are happy that an Iranian Muslim woman was qualified to be noticed by the world community for her activities in bringing about peace,” official Government spokesman Abdollah Ramazanzadeh said.
“We hope that we could use her expert views more in Iran.”
For his part, Vice President Ali Abtahi says the award highlights the active role of Iranian women in trying to shape how the Islamic republic is run.
“I am very happy that an Iranian and above all a woman has won the Nobel Peace Prize,” he said.
“The fact that a lawyer has won this prize gives us hope that the judicial system will change its methods.”
Ms. Ebadi was selected among 165 nominees for the prize which comes with award money of $1.3m.
Nadia,
[QUOTE]
“Noted for promoting the rights of women and children by seeking changes in Iran's divorce and inheritance laws, she is the first Muslim woman to be awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.”
[/QUOTE]
I am starting from the presumption that Iran compared to other Muslim countries is most stringent in implementing Islamic laws. Are the changes that she is seeking in Iran's divorce and inheritance laws is to make them more Islamic or secular? If she thinks that they are not Islamic enough and wants to Islamize them further, then I am for her. If it’s other way around, then she has come with an agenda.
[QUOTE]
“The reception committee is believed to have included a number of internationally-known film directors and the popular captain of the country's national football team. Hundreds of Mrs Ebadi's supporters, including the president of France's biggest human rights group, had gathered at Orly airport in Paris to bid her farewell.”
[/QUOTE]
Am I safe to presume that her welcome committee seems to be ‘secular’ in nature? (Not that they are not Muslims. I have to differentiate between a Muslim and an Islamist.) Why any one of Islamic Women’s Associations were not there to welcome her? Wasn’t she their heroine? Shouldn’t they be there to welcome her? I know that you can’t answer for them. Perhaps they know better than us what is better for the Muslim women of Iran.
[QUOTE]
“Before her departure, she told the BBC that the Nobel Prize had given her a new determination to defend the rights of women and children in her homeland.”
[/QUOTE]
So does it mean that there are no Islamic oriented welfare associations at all in Iran? Or if there are any then they must be under the control of women-hating & children-hating Mullahs. Leave alone Mullahs, I’m sure there must be some Islam loving MEN and WOMEN in Iran who are concerned Muslims to serve the down-trodden, right?
[QUOTE]
“The reformists have welcomed her achievements, but hardliners have condemned the award as an attempt by the West to weaken the Islamic government and promote secularism in Iran, he said”
[/QUOTE]
“The reformists have welcomed her achievements”, isn’t it the agenda of reformists to roll back the ‘Islamic revolution’ and bring back secularism.
[QUOTE]
“Is that so problematic? Do you not agree that this practice of pointing fingers at each other, at our own selves, is dividing us? i am sure you have come across that ahadith where Prophet Muhammad, may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him, is reported to have stated that the 'ummah' is such that if one part [the allegory being made was towards the human body] feels pain, then the whole body feels pain. Similarly, instead of us jumping up and down to judge her so harshly, why don't we take a collective moment to breathe, stop, think, and ask ourselves - Is she doing something that is compatible with Islam, is she waging a jihad that Allah would be pleased with? What can be greater than helping women and children, except perhaps helping orphans ? You know the answer to this as well as i do - how much glory does Islam place upon helping those most vulnerable. If she had been offered a scientific award for some technological development she had assisted in, then would we still call it a 'kufr' invention and proclaim to say it was a political agenda? No, we would not. Infact we would praise her and say 'May this type of success continue InshaAllah'. So why the hypocrisy?”
[/QUOTE]
Yes we should be unite and work for the betterment of Ummah and encourage and help those who are in the front line. But that doesn’t mean we should not keep a wary eye so that no wolf can enter amongst us in sheep’s clothing.
[QUOTE]
“Quote of Iran's President Mohammad Khatami form your post above (quoted below) seems that he is thinking in the same lines. I think he should know better than all of us here. Why ? Because he is male ?
[/QUOTE]
If Presindent Khatami had been a woman and had said what he said, then would it have okay for you? Why do you keep bring the gender into it.
I repeat again – Do you think with so many hadiths of Rasool Allah (saw) about the rewards for looking after the orphans and widows, there are no kind souls in Iran to undertake this honourable task. Surely there must be thousands of unsung heroes doing the noble work.
[QUOTE]
“In Washington, spokesmen at the White House and the State Department applauded the recognition for Ms. Ebadi.
European leaders appeared jubilant over the selection of an Iranian woman who works as an advocate for human rights. President Jacques Chirac of France called her an "exceptional choice," and Chancellor Gerhard Schroder of Germany celebrated her dedication to "tolerant coexistence and an understanding between cultures."”
[/QUOTE]
If Americans and Europeans are pleased with some ‘development’ in any Muslim country, then it is safe to say that whatever has pleased them is not in accordance with Islam.
I am going to repeat myself again:
Nobody is questioning her as a person. If she had been a 'he' my views wouldn't have changed a bit. The issue is as to why the Nobel Peace Prize allotted the prize to her as an Iranian (Just as USA is trying tighten the screws on Iran. We are questioning the motives of the Committee and not her good deeds.
“Ebadi represents Reformed Islam, and argues for a new interpretation of Islamic law which is in harmony with vital human rights such as democracy, equality before the law, religious freedom and freedom of speech. As for religious freedom, it should be noted that Ebadi also includes the rights of members of the bahai community, which has had problems in Iran ever since its foundation. “
Link http://www.payvand.com/news/03/oct/1059.html
I found this interesting bit. Note that she wants to REFORM ISLAM and ARGUES FOR A NEW INTERPRETATION OF ISLAMIC LAW WHICH IS IN HARMONY WITH VITAL HUMAN RIGHTS SUCH AS DEMOCRACY, EQUALITY BEFORE THE LAW, religious freedom and freedom of speech
Now I call that an agenda. Allah (swt) has ordained that Islam is complete. Shirin Ebadi finds it lacking!
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Ibn Sadique: *
**Now I call that an agenda. Allah (swt) has ordained that Islam is complete. Shirin Ebadi finds it lacking!
[/QUOTE]
*
Hold on a minute.
According to whom is that true? Who wrote that piece above that you quoted in bold? Some person who works on the payvand website? Excuse my language but any half twit can say anything about anyone; i've read that George Bush doesn't hate Muslims and his war is not against Islam or Muslims; does that make it true just because some individual stated it ?
Why don't you quote me a piece from the lips of Mrs. Ebadi herself. That would mean much more than some random quote you hunted out from the internet, attributed to some person who probably has never even met Shirin in his life! Now that's what i call taking over the position of being judge jury and executioner.
Like i said a million times before, leave the judging part to Allah. Please.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Ibn Sadique: *
**So does it mean that there are no Islamic oriented welfare associations at all in Iran? Or if there are any then they must be under the control of women-hating & children-hating Mullahs. Leave alone Mullahs, I’m sure there must be some Islam loving MEN and WOMEN in Iran who are concerned Muslims to serve the down-trodden, right? *
[/quote]
What do you mean, "women-hating and children-hating Mullahs"? Do you think i believe all Mullahs are like that? Please i have to ask you, do not ever make assumptions about me. Please. From this point onwards, if you make another assumption about me, you may consider that i will be ignoring those types of assuming comments in this thread. i started a thread, several months ago, regarding Mullahs - please search for it in this Forum and read my thoughts on them. i have never made public my assumptions about yourself, please extend the same basic courtesy to others.
[quote]
“The reformists have welcomed her achievements”, isn’t it the agenda of reformists to roll back the ‘Islamic revolution’ and bring back secularism.
[/quote]
So you took a survey of each single person, the thousands who came to the airport to greet her? Your survey must have been pretty exhaustive, somehow you managed to interview every single person and find out whether or not they are a "reformist".
[quote]
If Presindent Khatami had been a woman and had said what he said, then would it have okay for you? Why do you keep bring the gender into it.
[/quote]
Why ? Because she's a female and so am i! That's enough reason for me. i can't help it if i think more about females and orphans than i do about men, sorry, that's just the way i think.
[quote]
I repeat again – Do you think with so many hadiths of Rasool Allah (saw) about the rewards for looking after the orphans and widows, there are no kind souls in Iran to undertake this honourable task. Surely there must be thousands of unsung heroes doing the noble work.
[/quote]
Of course there must be, when have i ever stated otherwise ?
Yaar baba, she has built a career out of doing this type of work. Read her bio.
[quote]
If Americans and Europeans are pleased with some ‘development’ in any Muslim country, then it is safe to say that whatever has pleased them is not in accordance with Islam.
[/quote]
And what if Muslims happen to be pleased with that development? Then you will curse those Muslims and banish them from the ummah?
[quote]
*Nobody is questioning her as a person. ...] We are questioning the motives of the Committee and not her good deeds.
[/QUOTE]
*
You have just questioned her as a person in your second reply by claiming again that there is an "agenda". So therefore she is stupid and is being manipulated by the west, right ?
i'll repeat myself as well - leave the judging to Allah.
Nadia,
Did you not yourself cut & paste from the link your provided.
Islamic website: http://www.iviews.com/Articles/arti...ref=IV0310-2111
So what’s the big fuss if I did the same? I am just presenting my point of the argument, of course you and many others will not like it. But as a true democrat bear others opinions too.
I have a full right to judge a person (including myself first of all) according to my beliefs for myself whether I take that person to be Islamically motivated or not. Isn’t voting for someone for an office, a sort of judgment of a person being suitable for the office.
About that person’s inner motives and whether they are hell bound heaven bound I will leave to Allah Almighty.
[QUOTE]
You have just questioned her as a person in your second reply by claiming again that there is an "agenda". So therefore she is stupid and is being manipulated by the west, right ?
[/QUOTE]
At times the manipulation is so subtle that one being manipulated isn't aware of it. I never claimed she was in league the manipulators and came in as a willing 'agent'.
I take my words back where I have personally offended you. Sorry for that and I did not mean to.
I think I have said enough!
May be unknowingly, Nadia has revealed something important. She receives hate mongering pms by her co religious fellows for siding with other religions and people or for praising something progress worthy in Islam.
She is abused of being a kufr, just because she is a little more courageous.
This explores the inner conflicts and psycho-problems of ideological Islam. Nothing wrong if Ebadi has become a target of hate of this narrow-minded mentality.
(When I started reading of Nadia’ complain of hate pms, I thought that may be some non-Muslims send her such massages, but further it says that she is a target of Islamic mentality.)
Yahudi
Please.
All I ask is that you spare us for a couple of weeks and go on holiday or something.
Your Psycho Analysis's are getting too much even for the Pyschiatrists!!!
Ibn Sadique,
i certainly accept your apology humbly and extend my own. i think i have also stated too much in this thread. i am sure there is some truth to whatever you are stating.
Yahudi,
Don’t you get tired of repeating racist garbage. Please, enough is enough.