Just like Lech Walesa, Polish Trade Union Leader, was given the Nobel Peace Prize in 1983.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ak47: *
Nadia you see agenda behind this women being given trophy or not!
[/QUOTE]
AK47, Sholay, and Ibn Sadique,
i don't care what the "agenda" is, even if there is one. They could have chosen Pope John Paul instead, he was also nominated. He was passed over for her. i'm sick and tired of these "agendas". i wish we would worry more about our socio-political malaise. When someone does something good, we love to throw water over it, when someone is fighting for women's and children's rights, that immediately becomes a Zionist agenda. i wonder if i join an NGO down the road, will i also be called a kufr? Will someone open up a fatwa against me?
You guys (it's always guys) love to pass judgements around against Muslims, it comes as naturally to some people as breathing. Learn to give Allah the benefit of the doubt and leave it up to Him to determine who is and isn't a Muslim. We have other social issues we can worry about. When Mr. Edhi picks up a body from a gutter to give it a decent burial, he doesn't give the dead body a shake and asks him angrily - were you a good Muslim.
jeez.
That type of response to a fellow Muslim :k: Masha’Allah. i’m sure the Quran mentions we should talk like that to our fellow Muslims. Good for you.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by yahudi: *
**It is your personal complex that you look for Muslims everywhere.
(Ps,You defend Ahamadis. Why? Ideological Islam is against them. So, you first define your status. That will be more non-hypocritical.)*
[/QUOTE]
Thanks, Yahudi, but i know what is and is not hypocritical and i'll work on my faults - i'm sure you will work on yours simultaneously. Learn to look past your hatred and prejudice against Muslims my friend before your own fears & ignorance consume you.
It is good that majority of Muslims are good people and do not follow the ideological Islam, otherwise the world could not afford millions of talibs.
Cheers for Ebadi!
Yahudi
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the majority of Muslims do follow the ideological Islam and are thus good people. It's people like you who tend to disagree with this reality.
Nadia
The fact is and you should know this, women and children have been given far more rights under Islam than any other way of life or religion. It is not as though Islam has abandoned these rights somewhere along the line, where a male or female has to champion a 'fight'. Ebadi most probably meant well but what has she really done for society that Islam didn't do. I would much rather that this manmade award stay within the ranks of it's founding fathers and their belief system.
Do Muslims need awards to confirm their contribution to society? Not in my books.
This my opinion, so please don't be offended.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Nadia_H: *
AK47, Sholay, and Ibn Sadique,
i don't care what the "agenda" is, even if there is one. They could have chosen Pope John Paul instead, he was also nominated. He was passed over for her. i'm sick and tired of these "agendas".
[/QUOTE]
If you don't care what the agenda is then you will remain blind and be fooled by the Kuffar!
This trophy was given for a very obvious reason which you choose not to highlight and that was simply pro western call in muslim land will be rewarded everytime i have even read in right wing newspapers they applauding this woman and these papers always abusing islam in there columns does'nt take a genius to work out why all of a sudden they applauding her!
Great!! Congrats to her, and lets hope in the future more Muslim women achieve such an award.
Just like how I view Dr. Abdus Salaam as my role model and with my deepest regards, I hope alot of oppressed (yet bright) women view this lady as a role model and reach for the better.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sholay: *
Nadia
The fact is and you should know this, women and children have been given far more rights under Islam than any other way of life or religion. It is not as though Islam has abandoned these rights somewhere along the line, where a male or female has to champion a 'fight'. Ebadi most probably meant well but what has she really done for society that Islam didn't do. I would much rather that this manmade award stay within the ranks of it's founding fathers and their belief system.
Do Muslims need awards to confirm their contribution to society? Not in my books.
This my opinion, so please don't be offended.
[/QUOTE]
Sholay
You miss the point completely ! Nobody's arguing whether or not Islam has been lacking in providing rights to women or whoever - it is the actual situation on the ground which this lady has been struggling against - the environment which the ruling clerics of Iran have created in the name of their interpretation of Islam. In an interview I read in one of today's paper Ms Ebadi repeated that it was not Islam that she had a problem with.
Should Muslims be awarded to confirm their contribution to society - why not ? No society is going to be perfect and there are always going to be injustices
~the different posts on this thread just show the muslims holding 2 oppossing views.
there is the one camp which does'nt trust the west like America Britain and organisations like the UN.
and there is the other camp that looks up to the west and upholds there values like democracy and man made laws.
Iranians of Southern California is a pro-Shah organization. Their website and the crap on thier website means nothing to me.
Iran has given far more rights to women than any Islamic country.
Plight of Women before Islam
During the pre-Islamic period, drinking had become a second nature with the Arabs. Wine and woman go together, and as a result of licentious drinking, fornication was very rampant. The caravans which radiated from Mecca with native merchandise to the Byzantine Empire, Syria, Persia and India, returned there from with all luxurious habits and vices and imported slave girls from Syria and Iraq who afforded vast opportunities of sensual pleasures to the rich with their dancing and singing and all corruption which usually goes with them.1
Decency and modesty had been swept away from the society by these drinking revelries, so common and so frequent, and by the absence of any social discipline; the heathen Arabs had little regard for the sanctity of matrimonial relations.
There was in fact no notion of conjugal fidelity among most of the Arab tribes. “In old Arabia, the husband was so indifferent to his wife’s infidelity, that he might send her to cohabit with another man to get himself a goodly seed.
The custom of polyandry, i.e., a custom of marriage under which a woman receives more than one man as her husband was very common in Arabia.
“Brothers have precedence over children, the kinship also and other offices of authority are filled by members of the stock in order of seniority. All the kindred have their property in common, the eldest being lord; all have on with and it is first come served, the man who enters to her leaving at the door the stick with it is usual for everyone to carry; but the night she spends with the eldest. Hence all are brothers of all (within the stock) they have also conjugal intercourse with mothers; and adulterer is punished with death; and adulterer means a man of another stock. Under such conditions when a woman is considered to the property of the whole tribe and she has no right to withhold her favors from any of the kinsfolk, “the idea of unchastity could not exist; their children were all full tribesmen, because the mother was a tribeswoman, and there was no distinction between legitimate and illegitimate offspring in our sense of the word.
Social life in Arabia is paradoxical and presents a gloomy picture of striking contrast. The Arabs, on one hand were generous and hospitable even to the point of fault, and took pride in entertaining liberally not only human beings, but also animals and beasts. On the other hand, the impending fear of poverty weighed so heavily upon them that they buried their female children alive, lest they should be impoverished by providing for them. In the same way, they had, on the one hand, little or no regard for chastity and would proudly narrate obscene accounts of their immoral exploits. On the other hand there had sprung up in them an utterly false sense of honor that impelled them to the practice of female infanticide, the underlying idea being that womenfolk, particularly daughters, were objects of disgrace.
The famous commentator Zamakhshari in his note on Sura Al-Takwir, verse 8, gives an account of how female infants were buried alive in the graves:
“When the girl attained the age of six, the husband said to the wife: “perfume her and embellish her with ornaments.” He would then carry the female babe to the relatives of his wife and set forth to the wilderness. There a pit was dig. The child was made to stand by it. The father said, “Fix your eyes on it” and then pushed her from behind so that she fell in the pit where the unfortunate soul wept bitterly in a state of utter helplessness. The ditch was covered with clay and then leveled to the ground.
It was due to the teachings of Islam the reprehensible custom of female infanticide, so prevalent amongst some of the Arab tribes came to an end.
Females were allowed no share in inheritance of their husbands, parents and other relatives. There was no check on the number of wives that a man could take. One could marry as many women as he liked and dismiss them according to his own sweet will. No restriction was imposed upon man’s lust. The pregnant woman was turned out of her husband’s house without any claim and was taken by others under agreement with her former husband.
Polygamy was an established institution of human society dating from the most ancient times. It was practiced in Biblical and Talmudic times. The Mosaic law, far from interdicting it, encouraged it. The renowned patriarchs practiced it, and so did the judges, the kinds and the spiritually-minded amongst the Jews. According to the Encyclopedia Biblica, “a common Jew could take as many as four wives and a king up to eighteen.”
In ancient India, in the age of great sages, plurality of wives was not only allowed in theory but was also commonly practiced. This can be abundantly proved by direct references to the Rig Veda and other religious texts of the Hindus. The heroes and Brahmans of the epic era are frequently represented as having several wives.8
Those who have referred to his plural marriages as evidence of his sensual nature made little mention of the fact that in the prime of his youth and adult years Muhammad remained thoroughly devoted to Khadijah and would have none other for consort. This was in an age that looked upon plural marriages with favor and in a society that in pre-biblical and post-biblical days considered polygamy an essential feature of social existence. David had six wives and numerous concubines, and Solomon was said to have had as many as 700 wives and 300 concubines. Solomon’s son Rehoboam had 18 wives and 60 concubines. The New Testament contains no specific injunction against plural marriages. It was commonplace for the nobility among Christians and Jews to contract plural marriages. Luther spoke of it with toleration.
Communities are composed of males and females. If the number of men who are fit and seeking marriage, is equal to the number of similarly fit and willing women, then polygamy becomes practically impossible; for in this case every man will not find but one available woman to marry. To have an extra wife would mean that there is an extra female who has not got a man to marry. This argument is valid whether the number of marriageable women exceeds that of marriageable men or when the number of marriageable women exceed that of men who can afford to marry.
If the number of females seeking marriage exceeds that of the males, a distortion results in the structure of the society and polygamy becomes justified. The distortion occurs quite frequently where men are more exposed to danger that women, as in case of wars. It may happen for economic or social reasons as well whereby men are materially unable to get married.
Let us, for example, examine the demographic problem which arose in Germany after the Second World War. There was one marriageable man (between 20 and 45) available for every three women of the same age group. How would the legislator solve this problem, taking into account the interests of men, women and society at the same time?15
There are three alternatives:
1. Either each man gets married to one woman only, leaving the other two women without men, children and homes all their lives, or
2. Each man gets married to one woman only, but frequents who would not enjoy a family life nor bear children. Even if they responded to their feminine instinct and bore children, they would be committing a crime as the children would be illegitimate. Mother and child would suffer the stigma of immorality and illegitimacy and live under social ostracism.
3. Or, some men would get married to more than one woman; thus allowing them the dignity of marriage, the securing of the family and the begetting of children without the taint of crime or the anxiety of sin. Polygamy under such circumstances would spare the society of *******ies and the sexual offence of adultery. Society would also have the chance to correct the imbalance through the new births and thus restore the balance as has been observed in period following wars and epidemics.
Which of these alternatives is more useful and beneficial to humanity? These are the only alternatives and we have to choose one from among them. The problem is to respond to this condition and find a practical solution. It seems that in West Germany, where polygamy is prohibited socially and religiously, people have sought an appropriate solution and could not find anything better than the Islamic solution, though they could not adopt it. It was the women there who asked for polygamy and, strangely enough, not the men.
Importance and Role of Women in Islam
With the advent of Islam, the condition of women witnessed a see-change. The Quran gave women rights of inheritance and divorce centuries before Western women were accorded such status. The women of the first of the first ummah in Medina took full part in its public life, and some, according to Arab custom, fought along side the men in battle. They did not seem to have experienced Islam as an oppressive religion, though later, as happened in Christianity, men would hijack the faith and bring it into live with the prevailing patriarchy.
Rabiatu Ammah, a Muslim doctoral student from Ghana who studied at the Selly Oak College in Birmingham, when asked whether she felt hard done by as a Muslim woman, replied:
Not at all. I am a Muslim woman who looks at the Quran and knows that the Prophet said paradise lies at the feet of women. A man came to the Prophet and asked him, ‘Of my parents, which should I give most respect?’ And the Prophet said, ‘Give it to your mother.’ And he asked again, ‘Who next?’ The Prophet said, ‘Give it to your mother.’ ’ And he asked again, ‘Who next?’ The Prophet said, ‘Give it to your mother.’
And he asked again, ‘Who next?’ And the Prophet said, ‘To your father.” So you see how important woman is in Islam. People always misunderstand and misrepresent the status of woman in Islam. We have to distinguish between in Muslim societies which have been culturally influenced in so many ways. As far as God is concerned, there is no distinction: it is your piety that counts.
Contrary to the belief that was widespread in Christendom for centuries, Islam does not assert that women have no soul. They have the same claim to a place in Paradise as men (see 40:8). However, the misogynistic elements among the pious of the first few centuries, whose numbers evidently increased after contact with Christian asceticism in particular, circulated a tradition that was frequently quoted in later years. Muhammad is reported to have said: “I stood at the gates of Paradise, most of those who entered were poor, I stood at the gates of Hell, most of those who went in there were women.” [82, V, 209f]
The Koran does not regard Eve as the seducer of Adam, as she is presented in the Old Testament--that is, as responsible for Man’s expulsion from Paradise and for his arduous existence on Earth--but considers Satan led both of them astray. (2:34; 7:19ff)
The fact that women prayed regularly along with men in the mosque is also evidence of their equality in public life during the early period Islam. Women in the early Muslim community owned and sold property, engaged in commercial transaction, and were encouraged to seek and provide educational instruction. Muhammad’s wife Aisha was one of the most important transmitters of Sunni hadith.
Sorry for the long cut and paste, but some people need to be shown that Islam truly is the greatest religion ever.
Marziyeh Dabbagh, of four women elected to Iran’s first post revolutionary Parliament. Before the revolution Marziyeh used her father’s book business as front for arms smuggling and bomb making. When the police tracked her down and tried to torture information from her, they forced electrodes into her vagina, causing an infection so severe, she says, that “the Savak chief wouldn’t come into my cell for the smell.” In a final effort to extract a confession, the police tortured her twelve-year-old daughter. But even that failed. “When I heard my daughter screaming,” she said, “I recited the Quran.” Marziyeh would probably have died in the Savak prison if a woman relative hadn’t agreed to take her place while Marziyeh crept out disguised in the woman’s chador.
After her election to Parliament, she became one of Khomeini’s two envoys to Mikhail Gorbachev when Iran restored relations with the Soviet Union. When Gorbachev extended his hand in greeting, she remembers a moment of alarm. Muslim women aren’t allowed to touch unrelated men, but she didn’t want to insult the Soviet leader at such a sensitive diplomatic moment. She solved the problem by sticking out her hand wrapped in her chador.
Feezah Harshemni, daughter of former Iranian president Hashani Rafsanjani argued that the “oppressors”, meaning Western countries, used Muslim women’s absence from the sports field as an example of women’s inferior positioning in Islamic Countries. “If Islamic countries can’t come up with their own principles for women’s competition”, she said in one widely reported speech, “ then the way dictated by western oppressing countries will be imposed on us.” Iran sent men’s team’s to international contests. Why not, she said, let those women who excelled in any of the five sports that could be done in hijab too.135In September 1990, she won her point, and when the Iranian team joined the march at the opening of the Asian Games, in Beijing, in 6 Chador clad women--the Iranian shooting team-- led the way. One of them, an 18 year old named Elham Hashemi managed to break the Iranian men’s record.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Salman: *
Iran has given far more rights to women than any Islamic country.
[/QUOTE]
Is that why Iranaian students like to riot every now and then? Maybe they have too much freedom?
I congratulate Nadia for this thread.
This thread has exposed so much inner contradiction in Islam and Islamic thought.
Sholay says that majority of Muslims follow ideological Islam, whereas Nadia says (in different threads) that the problem occurs because Muslims do not follow the teachings of Islam.
Who is more correct?
Salmann,
A great article and exposure. I wonder that Islam still discusses if a Muslim woman diplomat should shake hand with other male non-Muslim diplomat or not?
If you remove your tricks of defense, all three articles are an eye opener for all and for Muslims.
IS that why Americans riot is seattle and Europeans riot in rome every now and then maybe they have too much freedom or is that they had enough of democrohypocrisy and the oppressive capitalist system 
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by yahudi: *
Sholay says that majority of Muslims follow ideological Islam, whereas Nadia says (in different threads) that the problem occurs because Muslims do not follow the teachings of Islam.
Who is more correct?
[/QUOTE]
Majority of muslims try to follow the ideological islam, but many fail to do so because of ignorance especially fueled by supposed religious leaders at the village level who add much more cultural and societal taboos and what nots into it.
Anand, please open a diff thread, its getting a little boring to see same tangents in every thread.
If it was some Muslim man who recieved this award then I am 100% no one would have a problem with it but since it’s a woman let’s all criticize what a major sin she did by promoting women’s and children rights… I’m sure some maulvi has already declared her a kaafir…:k: 
If this Iranian woman is eligible for the Nobel prize then Asma Jahangir should also get one.
http://www.time.com/time/asia/2003/heroes/asma_jahangir.html