Hi everyone,
I know that Muslims do not believe in the Trinity, but I want to know what Muslims think Christians mean when they refer to the “Trinity”. Could someone explain how this concept is interpreted?
Thanks:)
1+1+1=1 ?
it means that God is one meaning there is a God and there is Jesus and there is holy ghost but these are not three Gods but one:confused:
God is a personality
Jesus is a personality
Holy Ghost is a personality
so there are three personalities but they are not three, they are one 
Please help 
As a Muslim I believe, that all Abrahamic religions taught monotheism, that is, absolutely no sharing of the Throne of Allah :swt: with any entity…
As a Muslim I believe that these teachings with time were corrupted…
I believe that the Christians deified Jesus (as) to the point of making a Prophet into a son of God and then introducing a third entity to the throne called the Spirit…
According to Muslims, Allah :swt: said ‘kun’ or ‘be’ and Jesus :as: was…No big deal for Allah :swt: to everything out of nothing…
And the greatest and strangest part is that, since they say that they have the blood of Christ in the Vatican someplace, alongwith some samples from the Shroud of Turin…So let’s say if we were to get the DNA samples from those samples, and were able to clone Jesus (as) (nauzubillah), and Jesus being the son of God (astaghfirullah), would that mean that God had DNA (astaghfirullah)?
If Jesus :as: were cloned (nauzubillah), would that mean that God (nauzubillah) had a genetic makeup? And since genes are finite in number, would that make God finite (nauzubillah)?
Muslims absolutely and irrefutably reject the concept of trinity in all its manifestations as the highest form of sin, Shirk or attributing someone to the throne of Allah :swt:…
Allah is One and Only…
Quran 5:72-76
They surely disbelieve who say : Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said : O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden Paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evildoers there will be no helpers.
They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three; when there is no God save the One God. If they desist not from so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve.
Will they not rather turn unto Allah and seek forgiveness of Him? For Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
The Messiah, son of Mary, was no other than a messenger, messengers (the like of whom) had passed away before him. And his mother was a saintly woman. And they both used to eat (earthly) food. See how we make the revelations clear for them, and see how they are turned away!
Say: Serve ye in place of Allah that which possesseth for you neither hurt nor use? Allah it is Who is the Hearer, the Knower.
There was one of those apocalyptic sci-fi books where Jesus was accidentaly cloned or something like that.. I don’t remember? here’s the book though.
That’s a good way of debunking it though with the DNA and infinity :k:
I was always under the impression that the original concept of Christian Jesus was like how in Greek mythology the gods would sometimes take human form to teach the humans a lesson.. so that way it would still be the same single God just displaying his infinite powers or something like that. Then the Holy Spirit.. I never fully understood that one.. apparently most Catholics don’t either cuz I never got the same answer twice when asking.
if he was himself in human form, why was he praying to himself?
To teach the humans?? I dunno, it's not an easy concept. Like i said, that was my impression of some earlier manifestations of the idea.. if you ask 3 people about it you'll get 5 answers.
yeah i guess debating with you really doesnt prove anything since you're not christian (?).
Guess not.. :) oh well
But I think if it's the way I said earlier, that Jesus is simply taken as God and not a separate entity, then the problem comes in believing that God had a mother. I think the virgin birth is supposed to take care of that aspect though.. he came into our world in human form but did not actually have a mother? There's still too many other questions for it to make sense... I can explain the Passion, though :p
Lajawab.. nice scenario.. let me take it up a notch..
if they did clone Jesus and are successful.. and the 'real' Jesus as per majority Muslim beliefs returns before the Day of Judgement.. wouldn't we have .erm.. TWO jesus.. .. wouldn't we have an argument over who'd kill the swine?
not to derail the topic but Muslims who have an objection to Jesus being 'superhuman' are exhibiting contradictory beliefs themself by believing he'd descend from the heavens again.
Re: Muslim understanding of the Trinity concept?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by lyrixforu: *
Hi everyone,
I know that Muslims do not believe in the Trinity, but I want to know what Muslims think Christians mean when they refer to the "Trinity". Could someone explain how this concept is interpreted?
Thanks:)
[/QUOTE]
Once a Christian friend of mine said that is easier for one to empty the seven seas with a seashell than for a Christain to 'explain' the concept of Trinity.
[QUOTE]
1+1+1=1 ?
[/QUOTE]
That's exactly what the Muslims believe the Christain formula of Trinity is all about.
God can do anything. But in christianity, God had to create another god to do something that He was capable of doing himself by all means in the first place. Trinity has its origins in the Roman theology rather than Christian beliefs. St. Paul compromised on the basic tennents of a divinely revealed message. Real christianity had nothing to do with multiplication of Diety.
PA, sperms in reality are projectiles which carry a payload of exactly identical DNA strands…If you take a million spermatozoa from one man, you will not a find even the slightest variation in one strand from the other, hence the foolproofness of the paternity tests…
Yet we see that when one man and one woman produce multiple offsprings, none of them share the same qualities and traits, unless they be pathological twins in which case the only thing they would share would be the same features…
So if we were to take a million DNA samples of the blood of Christ and produced a million humans, those million humans will not be the same as the original, who is with Allah :swt:, and they wouldn’t even be alike…So your objection though very logical doesn’t hold much water, spiritually or scientifically…The things don’t add up…
In this I believe Christianity and Islam are unanimous in their belief that Jesus :as: will definitely descend near the end of times and I hold firm to that belief…
Re: Re: Muslim understanding of the Trinity concept?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ibn Sadique: *
Once a Christian friend of mine said that is easier for one to empty the seven seas with a seashell than for a Christain to 'explain' the concept of Trinity.
[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately many Christians do not understand the Trinity concept. This is due to a lack of comprehension by the people that should be able to teach them.
Let's look at the whole issue:
God Almighty is omnipotent - Fact. People can’t see God Almighty – Fact. If God wanted to take/change a part of Him in some shape more recognisable for mankind in order to accomplish a certain goal, He can do so – Fact. It is therefor logic that God Almighty “could” and “might” be represented to mankind through Jesus Christ.
On the DNA of Jesus: Mary was but the woman that gave birth to Jesus. Not being impregnated by any human, it is anyone’s guess as to what Jesus’ DNA could be. If Jesus is part of God, and since the entire universe stems from God, surely some part of Jesus might well be common to us humans. Interesting to theorise about it, yet it all remains just conjectures and has no real substance in the whole debate.
Mankind is made up of Body, Soul and Spirit. In Genesis 1 and 2 we are taught that God made mankind similar to himself. Body = Jesus (can be seen and life beside us), Soul = Father (the heart and mind of God), Spirit = Holy Spirit (the essence of God). As God the Father expects Jesus the Body to be submissive/obedient to the Father (or Mind of God), our bodies should be made submissive/obedient to our minds, etc.
The issue/doctrine of the Tri-une God runs through the whole Old and New Testament. Many aspects of God Almighty can only be understood through the Tri-une idea of God. It is central to Salvation as Christians understand it from the Bible.
[quote]
1+1+1=1?
That's exactly what the Muslims believe the Christain formula of Trinity is all about.
[/quote]
More like 1x1x1=1 OR Water/Ice/Vapour at the same temperature OR to bury a dead person called John while his life essence (also called John) is not there anymore.
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More like 1x1x1=1 OR Water/Ice/Vapour at the same temperature
[/QUOTE]
Now that's imposssible! In reality it is not so. At different temperatures the water adopts a appropriate form for that temperature.
Water cannot be liquid/Ice/Vapour at the same instance. If the water is in a liquid form, it will have the qualities of a liquid and will behave so. It will not have the qualities or the essence of Solid/Ice or Vapour/Steam.
If it takes form of one state it losses the 'qualities' of the 'other' two forms.
Explaining Trinity is like solving a Riddle warped up in a Enigma.
I don't think that Concept of Trinity exists in the Old Testament, though it is in the New Testament.
K,
Let me pose this question. The assumption is that God/Allaha is so powerful he does not need to have any other forms of his singular deity.
I postulate this, If God is truly all powerful. If Jesus was in fact his son. What is to stop God from doing something that makes no sense physically to man. I would also postulate that God is more powerful than any of us can imagine. I believe there is only one God. He is expressed in the form God the Father, God the Son, God the Wholy Ghost.
Yes I know this leaves some questions that are truly hard to answer, as I myself have questioned whether this is true or not many times in my life. But it seems to make more sense than 3 entirely separate individuals.
As for the question about cloning, if Jesus is the son of God. What on earth makes you believe that God in heaven would allow the cloning of his son? I would venture that this would not be looked upon highly by God. The thought is almost blasphemic. But none the less, if Jesus was a fully man, then yes he would have to have DNA.
As far as praying to himself, that is trying to apply human concepts of limits to God. My question is, how big is God? Is he limited by how you perceive him, what you think he is and is not capable of, obviously not as he created matter. Where did matter come from? It does not make sense that matter would just appear out of thin air but it did. And what of the design of the universe. Does it make sense that the Earth is exactly far enough away from the sun to sustain life. Yet God in his infinite wisdom, was able to design this and more.
Why can't a God of such great power also design a means for the people of the earth to be redemed to him, as he knows we will never be good enough to get to heaven by our own works. For man's every desires are wicked.
Ok so if God is all powerful, who is man to say "God, I do not believe that you could exist as one God, but in the forms of 3 or 1 + 1 + 1 = 1?" That is like telling God, "I know how you made the sun set." What man in his right mind would tell God how he made the sunset. I also beg the question what man in his right mind will tell God how he can and can not manifest himself.
I'm also wondering, did Muhammad personally know Jesus or those that did at the time of his existence on earth? If we have accounts of the people who were actually there that wrote down the accounts shortly after his life and what he taught. Why should one believe a man who comes along 600 yers post facto and changes everything? If his book held the same historical truths I could understand but many known facts are changed. Like for example when people physically walked on the earth. Side note about how Jesus could actually be what Christians say he is.
Peace
Mr lyrixforu,
According to you ( and I am asking your personal belief) what out of the following four, depicts your version of trinity:
They possessed different phases or aspects of one single person.
They were three different persons, sharing eternity among themselves equally.
They were three persons with some of their characteristics individual and distinct; not entirely shared by others.
They were three persons in one with completely similar characteristics and similar equal powers, merged with each other and with no functions separate from the other.
hypothetically speaking.. clones aren’t like siblings.. they’re more like ‘replicas’..
but anyway the gist of the argument was that how come Muslims have objections to Christians elevating Jesus to a ‘Godly’ status when they themself hold beliefs of him possessing extra-human qualities and expect supernatural feats from him.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by lyrixforu: *
Why should one believe a man who comes along 600 yers post facto and changes everything?
[/QUOTE]
I believe the jews would say the same about christians not following tthings including the dietary laws prescribed earlier.