Some orthodox guppies insists on making too much of the term “Muslim Ummah”. The reality is that every region, group, country has its own priorities for a very specific set of issues.
A difference is living conditions is #1. Jordan faces a different set of problems on daily basis as compared to Bangladesh. Jordan is thirsty of water, while Bengal has too much of it.
A difference in the setup is #2: While the steppe of Kazakhstan plan the next launch of a spacecraft, Somalia may be fighting for its life in the hands of Aya-Deed-i.
Last but not least #3, differences in religious practices are the worst: Iran is strict Shia while Wahhabism rule the roost in Saudi.
It is time for Pakistan to forget about the every Ammah except its own and move on to resolve its own issues. Muslim Ammah is a psychological baggage that we can ill afford to carry around. Pakistan should also consider leaving the “Oh I See”. It is nothing but a bunch of groupies having fun drinking tea and shooting hoop-la once a year.
Let Egypt and Hosni to be an official leader of Muslim Ammah and see how quickly their leftie-Arab-cabal ruins the whole region.
>>It is time for Pakistan to forget about the every Ammah except its own and move on to resolve its own issues. Muslim Ammah is a psychological baggage that we can ill afford to carry around. Pakistan should also consider leaving the "Oh I See". It is nothing but a bunch of groupies having fun drinking tea and shooting hoop-la once a year.
Considering Pakistan is already embarked on a 'Pakistan First' road, I still fail to understand why you would recommend pulling out of OIC.
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*Originally posted by Faisal: *
....Considering Pakistan is already embarked on a 'Pakistan First' road, I still fail to understand why you would recommend pulling out of OIC.
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Following the internal stability, the next biggy for Pakistan is economics. OIC being a tea-sipping group is of no help there.
Instead, Pakistan should spend its energy building further upon an economic alliance like a Group of 4 (G-4) with Qatar, UAE, and Kuwait. These smaller areas are the only pro-business regions with a positive impact direction. Once G-4 shows a successful record for 10 years, it can add one more member. Pakistan can provide unlimited land and a big labor pool and market access to G-4.
Gawadar should be a simply extension of Dubai with similar labor rules, customs regulations and zero tariff on mutual trade.
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*Originally posted by antiobl: *
Instead, Pakistan should spend its energy building further upon an economic alliance like a Group of 4 (G-4) with Qatar, UAE, and Kuwait. These smaller areas are the only pro-business regions with a positive impact direction. Once G-4 shows a successful record for 10 years, it can add one more member. Pakistan can provide unlimited land and a big labor pool and market access to G-4.
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Although you are talking hypothetically about a G-4, still unless these are mutually exclusive organizations, I see no reason why we should pull out of one to form another. Not all organizations we join are very useful, some are more than others, and some just provide intangible benefits, that are hard to quantify, but come in useful if we get into a bad situation.
Faisal, what exactly OIC has done since it was formed some 40 odd years ago? It has members such as Gaboon (superpower) to Moro Liberation of Mindanao (a superpower in the making) and even Palestine (a country that has never existed). OIC is like a monkey collection of a Madari. Alliances should have some purpose. What’s the purpose of this impotent Org other than internal fighting and bad mouthing Jews and Israelis? It’s a MAToo org.
OBL – I disagree with forming G4. I think Pakistan should enter into an alliance with India and Bangladesh to form a separate trade block (outside of SAARC manifesto) on NAFTA Model, and we can call it SAFTA, or DAFTA - D as in Desi.
Madhanee SAFTA already exists. Right now it is called SAPTA, as it is a PTA and not an FTA. Regardless, I do not understand why people see the concept of the Ummah as impossible. Look at the European Communities, which is a perfect example of an Ummah. Different people, cultures and races working together and forming one unique, dominant identity.
ASEAN follows a very similar example. With China acting as the hub and the rest of the nations its spokes, that region is quickly moving towards an economically viable unit.
The difference between the above two examples and that of the Islamic Ummah is that these two are based on economics and inter-dependency. For the Muslims it is religion. Only the future will tell if religion can be a defining factor in linking nations together.
It is time for Pakistan to forget about the every Ammah except its own and move on to resolve its own issues. Muslim Ammah is a psychological baggage that we can ill afford to carry around.
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I like the word Ammah....Very smart wordplay...LOL......Ammah and Ummah are compatible..the only difference is that Ammah is always there when kids are in trouble and Ummah is never there when there are tough times......Ammah is never selfish and Ummah is always looking for its own benefit first.......Ammah always eats when kids are done and Ummah tries to suck you dry even when it knows that resources are scarce.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by antiobl: *
Some orthodox guppies insists on making too much of the term "Muslim Ummah". The reality is that every region, group, country has its own priorities for a very specific set of issues.
A difference is living conditions is #1. Jordan faces a different set of problems on daily basis as compared to Bangladesh. Jordan is thirsty of water, while Bengal has too much of it.
A difference in the setup is #2: While the steppe of Kazakhstan plan the next launch of a spacecraft, Somalia may be fighting for its life in the hands of Aya-Deed-i.
Last but not least #3, differences in religious practices are the worst: Iran is strict Shia while Wahhabism rule the roost in Saudi.
It is time for Pakistan to forget about the every Ammah except its own and move on to resolve its own issues. Muslim Ammah is a psychological baggage that we can ill afford to carry around. Pakistan should also consider leaving the "Oh I See". It is nothing but a bunch of groupies having fun drinking tea and shooting hoop-la once a year.
Let Egypt and Hosni to be an official leader of Muslim Ammah and see how quickly their leftie-Arab-cabal ruins the whole region.
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thats just stupid
american states differ much more than that yet they are still united..as of now..
florida has too much water but nevada lacks it...
california has the 7th largest economy and has in the world, while alaska has to hunt seals to survive....
alabama is white supremacist and fanatical christian state, while maryland allows gay marriage....
so whats your point?
mind you i just came up with these difference at this moment i m sure we can come up with many more if we try a little harder.....
Thanday yaar, they are all connected (states that is). In the ideology for one Ummah, all muslims states are spread all over the world...How exactly do you propose they gather under one Khalifah?
1)ll, pulling out of OIC won't help either. When its not doing much and is redundant, why even bother about it. But I agree with Faisal here that it would be better for Pakistan to stay in as pulling out would only bring the wrath and criticism from other muslim nations. So, i think its futile to even think about taking such a step, it does as Faisal said give us some intangible benefits that we don't realize. Besides, OIC's focus has not really been economic integeration and it focuses more on political and religious matters and good for passing resolutions on important occasions representing the Muslim world.
2)I thinkthis is a very naive argument that we should look towards the West Asians or states in the Middle East instead of focusing on our own region. Maybe it makes sense and I am unable to comprehend it but
when we have not been able to derive benefit from states closer to us where we can tap the resources and explore the market, why go all the way to a new region.
Its ironic that whether its ECO or SAARC, or Shanghai 5(ok they are following a gradual/step by step approach but are rather slow)
none seem have achieved something remarkable. If anything at all,we should try to make SAARC work and prepare purselves to embrace SAFTA (eventually we 'll have to do that whether we are prepared for it or not). There is already BIMSTEC which invloves most of the South Asian nations excluding Pakistan (Bangladesh, India, Mayanmar, Thailand, Nepal, Bhutan...why isolate ourselves from such groupings. not that any of these organisation is really successful (excluding maybe Shenghi 5) but why not show some interest in our very own region.
I believe once the problem in Afghanistan or for that matter kashmir is sorted out, these organisations have all the potential to be transformed into viable economic zones.
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*Originally posted by Minerva: *
...I thinkthis is a very naive argument that we should look towards the West Asians or states in the Middle East instead of focusing on our own region. Maybe it makes sense and I am unable to comprehend ....
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Simple. Bharat Pakistan and Bdesh have same strengths and weaknesses. Here is the problem:
You make huldi (turmeric),
I make huldi,
Jaldi Jaldi (quickly)
you make achaar (pickles),
I make achaar.
Would you buy my achaar?
Nahi Yaar! (no dear)
I am sick of my own achaar
So now you know Minerva! An economic alliance with Bharat cannot work towards a substantial advantage for Pakistan. Right-of-way for gas or oil pipelines probably is the only area of cooperation for now.
UAE, and Qatar on the other hand, offer something that compliments Pak- strengths. They have resources, but lack manpower. They have land-development skills, while we have land. They are well connected to West, and we can provide raw material and factories in Karachi and Gwader.
Dubai especially is a gem. Rulers of Dubai have been really smart to get rid of MAToo shackles and move on to serve the world. Tourists from the West just feel at home there. I wish Pakistanis could learn that art of tolerance from Dubai people.
I do talk about Ammah (or Ummah or whatever) in global context. Sure you meet good Arabs in Amreeka or other countries.
But then you also meet good Christians in Amreeka too (how many of you consider Christians as Ammahs?). Christians also help you at personal level much more than the help typically available to Rafeeks and Miskeens in the Arrrabobo lands.
Then the same Christians go on to give you or other American-Pakistanis residency, and then citizenship. Christians make you eligible to vote there, run for office there, own and operate companies there, and buy big houses too.
If Ammah concept was that strong, name a few Arrra-bobo countries where you can become citizen in 5-10 years?
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*Originally posted by antiobl: *
I do talk about Ammah (or Ummah or whatever) in global context. Sure you meet good Arabs in Amreeka or other countries.
But then you also meet good Christians in Amreeka too (how many of you consider Christians as Ammahs?). Christians also help you at personal level much more than the help typically available to Rafeeks and Miskeens in the Arrrabobo lands.
Then the same Christians go on to give you or other American-Pakistanis residency, and then citizenship. Christians make you eligible to vote there, run for office there, own and operate companies there, and buy big houses too.
If Ammah concept was that strong, name a few Arrra-bobo countries where you can become citizen in 5-10 years?
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Didnt you post the same blah blah in the other thread?!! Seems you running out of steam or just confused of so many Arabs on this board!?
