Muslim Scientists

Same old. Same old. Now move on and ruin some other thread. You obviously have no clue what you want to say.

For the third time, if you have any specific examples of peers vouching for the excellence of muslims scientists in the present day and age, bring them forward.

Anyway, getting past gupguppy’s distraction, a better discussion would be whether in recent times (20-21st century) there is credible progress in sciences by muslims, and if not, then the reasons for that and ways to remediate that. The following article provides a discussion, though I don’t necessarily agree with all points made there in. But its interesting, nevertheless. Some excerpts:

From Islam Online

Sure, Muslims have claimed several accolades as proof of their contribution to scientific prowess. The most recent example of that is Dr. Ahmed Zewail, who won the 1999 Nobel Prize. Others have made contributions to the field, but on a much less notable level.

He believes that the known period of monumental contributions by Muslims was that of pre-renaissance. During that period of time, Muslims contributed works to every scientific field, from biology to astronomy. “The impact of science and technology on Islamic civilization has been the recognition of the contributions of Muslim scientists in the pre-renaissance era, accelerating the renaissance by at least 100 years in Europe,” Ahmad said.

However, today we face many obstacles in our struggle to return to that eminence. One such obstacle was discussed in the dialogue dealing with the fact that the languages of the Muslim lands have not been modernized, causing a separation between those dialects and the scientific language of our times. Ahmad said, “I know that in my own studies of the writings of Islamic scholars, the words used by them particularly on concepts and results of science are highly questionable.” He continued, saying, “I am not quite sure of the reasons for this but it may stem from a lack of culture in science and technology.”

Another obstacle that stands in our way is getting started on this path. Because there is either a lack of interest or finances going towards scientific research and study on the part of Muslim countries, many scholars are strapped with inadequate instruments by which to perform their various fields of research. In the end, this has caused some of the greatest Muslim thinkers to migrate to western countries.

When asked what he thought it would take to have a reawakening of sorts amongst Muslim thinkers, Ahmad said, “It will take the Muslims what it took the early Muslims - a quest for knowledge, knowing the knowledge as it exists regardless of its source and having the drive to discover and make a contribution to civilization.”

Khawarizmi quote ..: “That fondness for science… that affability and condescension which God shows to the learned, that promptitude with which he protects and supports them in the elucidation of obscurities and in the removal of difficulties, has encouraged me to compose a short work on calculating by al-Jabr [algebra] and al-Muqabala, confining it to what is easiest and most useful in arithmetic.”

at that time arabs interacted with other cultures

Arithmeticians and Algebraists The Jewish astrologer Sahl ibn Bishr wrote a treatise on algebra. The greatest mathematician of the time, and, if one takes all circumstances into account, one of the greatest of the times was al-Khwarazmi. He combined the results obtained by the Greeks and the Hindus and thus transmitted a body of arithmetical and algebraic knowledge which exerted a deep influence upon mediaeval mathematics. His works were perhaps the main channel through which the Hindu numerals became known in the west. The philosopher al-Kind1 wrote various mathematical treatises, including four books on the use of Hindu numerals. This may have been another source of Western knowledge on the subject. In any ease, the Arabic transmission eclipsed the Hindu origin, and these numerals were finally known in the West as Arabic numerals.

http://www.levity.com/alchemy/islam13.html

You do make me laugh sometimes Faisal when you suddenly put your moderator’s hat back on (i stress: sometimes)… we were all getting on very nicely i thought until you jumped in (as usual)…

http://www.dawn.com/2004/02/14/local3.htm

How come mad-Scientist is not participating in this?

^ He's busy collecting his Nobel Prize from Faisal...

Faisal,

The last quote in your post explains it perfectly. The motivation for Muslims to excel in fields of science and maths etc is not present today.

In the past the Muslims did not suddenly decide to study the stars or mathematics because it was something good to pass the time they studied the stars so that when they were travelling they needed to know the direction of the kibla. Algebra was invented in order to solve the complex laws of inheritance.

So Islam was the driving factor behind the advances in science. The west is advancing today because the driving factor for them is benefit. The drugs companies want to produce better medicine just for the purpose of profit.

Unless we embrace Islam as an ideology we will never succeed neither in this life nor the next.

how come only cold northern countries have technology compared to
tropical south? something to do with survival insticnt?

It's funny how none figured out the science behind continuing Islam's sucess in science. I guess that happens when all the great muslims are dead.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Raihan: *
..... The motivation for Muslims to excel in fields of science and maths etc is not present today.

[/QUOTE]

Being Muslim is not the end, but the means to achieve success in this world and in the one hereafter.

Namaz is not the objective, but a way to help your mind and body to grow. A namazi can be a better scientist because he can focus better. His mind becomes tuned to the nature, to the exploration, to risk taking in ideas about this world.

Unfortunately, the followers of Islam have stopped at worship just like the old ways of Pagans. They all go through a ritualistic life filled with practice strictly approved by a priest (or Mullah). No one can challenge the established view as it is "approved by" Allah.

The result is total destruction of entrepreneurship, innovative thinking, alternative solutions and you name it.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Raihan: *
......they studied the stars so that when they were travelling they needed to know the direction of the kibla.
.....
[/QUOTE]

Yeah Right! One more M*Too theory. Why do you think those Baghdadis were trying to measure the circumference of the earth? Why did they try to figure out the relative motion of the heavenly bodies. To find Kibla direction?

Man! these Mullahs have no shame.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by antiobl: *
Yeah Right! One more M*Too theory. Why do you think those Baghdadis were trying to measure the circumference of the earth? Why did they try to figure out the relative motion of the heavenly bodies. To find Kibla direction?

Man! these Mullahs have no shame.
[/QUOTE]

Why don't you enlighten us?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by skhan: *

Why don't you enlighten us?
[/QUOTE]

Short answer: Their love of discovery

Long answer: They were free of M*Too clutches. They loved using their own brains. They stood out under the night sky and pondered the beginning of this God's great universe. They loved to figure out things like how big is the earth. Hence the use of innovative techniques to figure out the circumference. Observe and record. That's what they loved to do.

Thomas Kuhn writes in one of his books about a super Nova explosion in the medieval times. He says that he found the record of the Supernova in Baghdad, in Shanghai, even in Africa. But he didn't find the record of Supernova in Europe.

Unfortunately for Baghdad the freedom of thought was soon to disappear under different edicts of Mullah. On the other hand Europe was about to wake up and take over the lead in scientific pursuits. By 1230 English aristocrats were giving away vast tracts of land to educational institutions. The result was an enormous effort all over Europe to discover and document new things.

For the past 1000 years, European culture has evolved its base on freedom of thought that changed every aspect of life. Art, music, science, architecture every thing evolved so rapidly that very few areas were able to keep up with the pace.

Love of discovery is still prevalent in Europe and European dominated areas. Pakistanis on the other hand are busy listening and appreciating Molanas (for example Molana Tariq Jamil).

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by antiobl: *

Short answer: Their love of discovery

Long answer: They were free of M*Too clutches. They loved using their own brains. They stood out under the night sky and pondered the beginning of this God's great universe. They loved to figure out things like how big is the earth. Hence the use of innovative techniques to figure out the circumference. Observe and record. That's what they loved to do.

Thomas Kuhn writes in one of his books about a super Nova explosion in the medieval times. He says that he found the record of the Supernova in Baghdad, in Shanghai, even in Africa. But he didn't find the record of Supernova in Europe.

Unfortunately for Baghdad the freedom of thought was soon to disappear under different edicts of Mullah. On the other hand Europe was about to wake up and take over the lead in scientific pursuits. By 1230 English aristocrats were giving away vast tracts of land to educational institutions. The result was an enormous effort all over Europe to discover and document new things.

European culture has been based on freedom of thought that changed every aspect of life. Art, music, science, architecture every thing evolved so rapidly that very few areas were able to keep up with the pace.

Love of discovery is still prevalent in Europe and European dominated areas. Pakistanis on the other hand are busy listening and appreciating Molanas (for example Molana Tariq Jamil).
[/QUOTE]

I agree, but I don't see why the notion of seeking the direction of the Kibla seems so outrageous. Surely, they must have been motivated by practical problems which led to these discoveries. You can't just pull discoveries out of thin air.

All great civilizations have an expiry date. It will also happen that the present USA will one day not be the power house it is today (how difficult it does seem to believe).

When talking about "Muslim" scientists, it mainly are "Arabian" scientists and not all Muslim countries were prominent in the discoveries/sciences as mentioned in the opening statement of this thread.

Present day scientists mainly are athiests. Maybe religion can be a hinderance in the scientific community today? It would show why few Muslim scientist stand out today and so many so called "Jewish" scientists made the Nobel price list (as previously mentioned). Very few of these "Jewish" scientists are orthodox Jews (if any) and rather follow an atheist or agnostic approach to religion. I therfor think "antiobl" is correct in pointing out that freeing the intellectual minds from orthodox Christianity in the Renaiscance period opened up the European mind-factories.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by The Old Man: *
I therfor think "antiobl" is correct in pointing out that freeing the intellectual minds from orthodox Christianity in the Renaiscance period opened up the European mind-factories.
. ...
[/QUOTE]

Thank you.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by skhan: *
.... why the notion of seeking the direction of the Kibla seems so outrageous. ...
[/QUOTE]

The notion is simply a M*Too way of treating science. Kibla direction was pretty clear, centuries before Battani's work. Baghdadi scientists were much more advanced than what this "kibla direction" thingy implies. This is at best Mullahi-zation of science that won't help advance the cause of science in Pakistan.

p.s. Pinning Kibla direction theory on Battani is like Einstein trying to figure out the distance to the moon.

Wah bahei wah muslims were ---wereeee and before also wereeeee-----

Pedarum was sultan, and I am NOUKAR of arabs or america; let us do some constructive work pleaseeeeeeee for Pakistan, weeee all including army are pakistanis------muslims or-------work for pakistan, pray for pakistan during Ramzan. God would take care of rest of the things himself, he has not appointed any one of us to tell what were weeee and keep beating the drums. Every one has left us far behind in every successful path of the world. But we are far ahead in killing and decreasing our own muslims. This what is our Mottoo now.

antiobl,

Being a good scientist has nothing to do with whether you pray namaz or not.

I agree there is no concept of a clergy in Islam but it seems that everything that you can't intellectually defeat automatically becomes a 'Mullah conspiracy'.

Everything has a starting point, the problem 'kibla direction' was solved by studying the stars which led to many other discoveries. There is no limit to knowledge, with every answer comes many more questions.

Unlike Christianity which made it a part of faith to believe the sun , stars i.e. everything revolves around the Earth and that the Earth was flat, Islam never did this.

Re: Muslim Scientists

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by PakistaniDragon: *
Abu Raihan Al-Biruni - Astronomy, Mathematics. (Determined Earth's Circumference) *973-1048

Al-Idrisi (Dreses) - Geography (World Map, First Globe) 1099 - 1166
[/QUOTE]

Quite impressive.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Raihan: *
....Everything has a starting point, .....
[/QUOTE]

Yeap and M*AToos are stuck at the "starting point" for the last 1200 years. Move on Bud! Move on!.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Green & White: *
....Quite impressive .....
[/QUOTE]

for a 1st grader for sure!

This again shows M*AToos are stuck for the last 1200 years.

History is the foundation of every society, if you don't have a history, then your nothing... to me, Muslim history is lost and long forgotten, it's only upto Muslims to find it. Look at India and Pakistan, what have they got to be proud off, they were only created 56 years ago.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Green & White: *
History is the foundation of every society, if you don't have a history, then your nothing...
[/QUOTE]

Hey Bud! Go for the history to your heart's content. Go all the way to back to the dinosaur era. Just don't get stuck in the Jurassic period. The world has moved on and it doesn't make sense to live in a little cave surrounded by your imaginary dinosaurs little foot and Sara.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Green & White: *
... to me, Muslim history is lost and long forgotten, it's only upto Muslims to find it....
[/QUOTE]

I am not sure where you live. Anyone can buy zillion books on Islam and Islamic history, written by every shade and hue of writers. May be there are no bookstores close to your cave-hujra. Heck you can order stuff from Amazon or bn. com. Obviously you don't access to a credit card either.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Green & White: *
....Look at India and Pakistan, what have they got to be proud off, they were only created 56 years ago.
[/QUOTE]

Hey man! Stick to the topic of Muslim scientists, unless you are in the race to win the King-Lallu-Parsad award freshly minted in the great state of Bihar.