[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sholay: *
Maybe for you. But not for Muslims.
Islam is not about race, it's about the whole of Mankind regardless of colour, creed etc.
Whether some people see it this way is another story.
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so what prevent iran and pakistan to merge?
The issue is not about Iran and Pakistan merging!
You seemed to have missed the whole concept. Noone is asking countries to abandon their boundaries and rename them.
In real terms, they have already 'merged'.
That is why both of them are members of the OIC.
The notion is about 'united we stand and divided we fall'.
http://www.gupistan.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=91434#post1377752
Sholay, both the examples you gave actually prove what I said and disprove what you’re saying. Neither the US nor the EU united based on religion. Show me one case where religion united nations? Yet I gave you examples of countries splitting up (whether same religion or different).
that’s why this is an invalid dream. Also how will it help human beings?
aravamudhan
You seem to forget that both America and Europe were already united on religious grounds.
What do you think was there first common denominator?
They were all either Christian or Jew. This is proven by their constitutions and law of the land. The basis of law was derived from predominant religious teachings used as a yard stick.
Unfortunately it is you that is wrong.
Secondly, a sound religious ideology will automatically include social and economic issues.
As far as the example is concerned, what do you think the OIC achieved?
It brought approximately 52 nations together solely on the basis of religion!
Please comment.
Yea agree religion didnt unite nations, even thou teh christain in teh past tried to.
BUT many different nation,race’s,cultures have been united under the banner of islam throughout history(yes islam is no religion but rather a complete ideology)
The tribes of al-aws and al-khazray were at war with each 4 generations until they were united by ISLAM and from that day on they united people of many nations.
I think you may have an imperfect definition of 'uniting'. Europe has not united based on any religion but sheer economics.
OIC is more like a conference than any kind of united political entity.
sure you'll find there are many common factors in many unions ...my point is that it takes much more than mere religion to unite poltical entitites.
muslim countries have too many disparities-of language,local cultures,economics and political systems.I don't see them uniting to form a 'Khilafa' ,atleast not in the next 50 yrs.The only thing the present generation should do is concentrate on educating the nearly 50% muslim populace that is illiterate.Othr than that chillout guys:)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by aravamudhan: *
I think you may have an imperfect definition of 'uniting'. Europe has not united based on any religion but sheer economics.
OIC is more like a conference than any kind of united political entity.
sure you'll find there are many common factors in many unions ...my point is that it takes much more than mere religion to unite poltical entitites.
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Like i said, today the muslim world is not united, because the rulers hav been placed ther to keep the muslim land's disunited (and btw OIC is a joke, like sum jouranlist said "even dogs have more honour than Arab RULERS"
What i was saying is that ISLAM demonstrated (prior to 1924) of how it was able t to unite different nations, the reason that was is cuz b4 1924 the Khilafah(the islamic state) existed.
PS: read the history even by western writers u will see how islam united different nations.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by foreverLahori: *
muslim countries have too many disparities-of language,local cultures,economics and political systems.I don't see them uniting to form a 'Khilafa' ,atleast not in the next 50 yrs.The only thing the present generation should do is concentrate on educating the nearly 50% muslim populace that is illiterate.Othr than that chillout guys:)
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Intresting, so you are saying u can see the future?...dangerous things to say!
And if Khilafah is going to come in 50 years time, how will it come if no1 works for? will it come automatically?
Did the Prophet(saw) just concentrate on perfecting namaz, n education? and assume the islamic state will come abt by itself?...NO, rather he performed practical actions which led to teh establishment of eth Khilafah.
al nasar u missed my pt.
I said i don't see it happenin atleast in the next 50 yrs,wht i meant by that is that i don't see it happenin in our lifetime atleast.I agree its not going to come about automatically,and given the current conditions it seems it might never happen,God only knows.I can't see or predict the future and i didn't mean to give that impression.
If it does come about it will happen gradually,Why do muslims assume that change has to come about dramatically and drastically,why not let it happen in steps.And I think the first step should be educating muslims.Only education can instill in them the characteristics of mature contemplation,decisionmaking and proper religious practice.They should first be able to 'Know' wht actions to take.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by al_nasar: *
Like i said, today the muslim world is not united, because the rulers hav been placed ther to keep the muslim land's disunited (and btw OIC is a joke, like sum jouranlist said "even dogs have more honour than Arab RULERS"
What i was saying is that ISLAM demonstrated (prior to 1924) of how it was able t to unite different nations, the reason that was is cuz b4 1924 the Khilafah(the islamic state) existed.
PS: read the history even by western writers u will see how islam united different nations.
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ok atleast we agree OIC is useless. I thought I saw in your earlier post that you had cited OIC as an example for Islamic unity!
Things change with time. All this Khailifa etc may have worked at some point in time but no more. You've got ICBMs, satellites, 24 hr TV news, Internet and supersonic jets. This means it will be increasingly imposible to concentrate power or information amongst a small set of people. Khailafat, monarchies, dictatorships etc will crumble faster and faster because of these. This is the age of democracy baby!
Open world, open trade, open access, open standards
The tide of Open'ness has begun its sweep and it will cleanse all such backward ideas
It was me who said that the OIC was the best bet.
Reeeeaaaadddd and digest!
They are not only Arabs but a combination of Muslim countries from around the world!
You are anti Khilafa and I am pro Khilafa.
I 've given you a very detailed breakdown on how Muslims can reglobalise and unite.
Maybe you can give us a detailed breakdown of why Muslim unity is so 'dangerous' and shouldn't globalise.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by foreverLahori: *
al nasar u missed my pt.
I said i don't see it happenin atleast in the next 50 yrs,wht i meant by that is that i don't see it happenin in our lifetime atleast.I agree its not going to come about automatically,and given the current conditions it seems it might never happen,God only knows.I can't see or predict the future and i didn't mean to give that impression.
If it does come about it will happen gradually,Why do muslims assume that change has to come about dramatically and drastically,why not let it happen in steps.And I think the first step should be educating muslims.Only education can instill in them the characteristics of mature contemplation,decisionmaking and proper religious practice.They should first be able to 'Know' wht actions to take.*
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Question, not tryin being rude but u said we shud educate poeple. Ok so wat do u want them to educate with? u want teach them 2+2,e=mc^2,h2o, english language?...ok fair enuff teach them that but will that revive the society and bring abt the Khilafah?
If that was the case we wud hav Khilafah in Uk or USA cuz they got educated populations, from what ur saying, u r implyin that once a nations get educated it will lead to the automatic establishment of islamic rules (i.e da Khilafah).....so why not just sit around n wait 4 UK or USA to establish the Khilafah!! (in reality thats wat u r sayin)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sholay: *
It was me who said that the OIC was the best bet.
......
Maybe you can give us a detailed breakdown of why Muslim unity is so 'dangerous' and shouldn't globalise.
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Given current extent and state of Islamist fundamentalism, I shouldn't have to provide any additional reasons.
Over the long term (by when hopefully the fundamentalism and resultant violence abates), there are no compelling reasons for a large number of countries to renounce sovereignty and choose to unite as a single Islamic entity.
Further more, unless certain Shari'a Islamic laws are updated to reflect contemporary civilian culture (telecom based society, gender equality, will & rule of the people, separation of state and church etc.) I will submit that many countries who are semi-Islamic today will actually renounce the 'Islamic' character from their national definition.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by al_nasar: *
If that was the case we wud hav Khilafah in Uk or USA cuz they got educated populations, from what ur saying, u r implyin that once a nations get educated it will lead to the automatic establishment of islamic rules (i.e da Khilafah).....so why not just sit around n wait 4 UK or USA to establish the Khilafah!! (in reality thats wat u r sayin)
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well education and understanding in Uk and otyher european countries did lead to teh creation of EU. with all its economic and political power wrangling, it is still more united and tied in than it was just a decade ago.
the starting point to get some sort of union based on common interests has to start with development of society and education, right now with that much struggle between sects, provincial and linguistis groups..a union even if founded by some miracle tomorrow morning at 9 a.m. will collapse by noon at the most.
Aravamudhan
With all due respect, I asked for a detailed breakdown for your reasons and not personal half hearted opinions.
Your 'evolutionary' stance in line with manmade laws is flawed from the offset.
Please try again with substance this time.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
well education and understanding in Uk and otyher european countries did lead to teh creation of EU. with all its economic and political power wrangling, it is still more united and tied in than it was just a decade ago.
the starting point to get some sort of union based on common interests has to start with development of society and education, right now with that much struggle between sects, provincial and linguistis groups..a union even if founded by some miracle tomorrow morning at 9 a.m. will collapse by noon at the most.
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Salaam
It seems Fraudz u hav lost all hope 4 muslims and hav become defeated in ur thinkin (ur makin assumptions that muslim wil never revivi cuz of da differences).
However the fact is that which ever part of the world u go, u wont see Shia's n sunnis blasting each others heads off wit machines guns (ok ther mgt be a very few incididents which no doubt will be publicised by da media and also govt has a hand in these situation)...
Go to Pakistan n u will see so called diff sects livin togeather (apt from a tiny tiny tiny minority). And if u so intent on believing this is a massive problems, wel i cant do much abt that. May Allah(swt) guide all of us to da correct path.