Originally posted by clubber lang: *
**The point is Hizb is working to culture the muslim with correct understand of islam, i.e building an public opinion about islam, i.e create a burning passion in people minds and heart to implement islam in all of their daily(life) problems....(do u hav any problems with this?) *
I dont have a problem with educating at all, its a noble task. Ht for some reason acts as if it were not for HT no one will be talking about khilafah, whereas almost every school, every sunday school and every elder talks about it to the kids...atleast from what I have seen.
From the above point, the Khilafah can only be establish when the muslims understand that Islamic rules being implemnting over them r a must..
And that is where we start running into problems. rules by whose view? the various sects and schools of thought do not agree with one another. If there is a common set of rules, either it will be favoring one group or become too general and some critic can easily say hey you are not enforcing the religiosu edict here.
so there has to be a due process and there ahs to be a population which can get along even with diff sects and schools of thought, that is not the case right now.
As for ur example, i cant comment too much cuz dont know what internal problems u mean.
The strife between sects and schools of thought to start with, then you have class wars, as well as regional issues between countries, and groups of ppl.
Lets just look at pakistan, shia sunni ahmedi stuff going on and then punjabi, pathan, mohajir what nots..it has caused some real problem. multip;y it a thousand time over when more people are competing for limited resources and feel that they are right and everyone else is wrong.
BAt least wen we hav Khilafah, the intrests of da muslim will be looked after, cuz the leader wont be obeying the commands of the West rather it will obey Alllah(swt) commands, (meaning that it will be obligation to protect sisters from gettin raped)..**
and to look after the interests of its people it would need to be economically, diplomatically and martially strong, otherwise it will be unable to do what it would want to.
And indeed wen the Khilafah was at its weakest (1900's) even then it managed to scare the crap out of bristish wen they(UK) refused to stop a drama wch disrespected the Prohet(was).....
But at the same time, they had to make treaties back and forth with russia, britain and others..it was not some proud indeendent entity that did not have to negotiate or compromise.
to be strong in all these areas some basic ground work needs to be done, which is not being done..technical excellence, education, a more balanced society, and its just not there
yes when the Khilafah returns it wont mean that sun will eb shining everyday and teh grass will be green everyday. there will be problems.
right so motherhood and apple pie is all good with khilafah, but until there are real mechanisms in place to make it into a strong, viable and united entity, it will fail as it did earlier due to internal discrod and strife.
As for the weakeness of a Khilafah, i wud say that even if it was weak at the start, it wud quickly hav to build it economy,infrastructure,hav ties with other nations (nations wt wch deealings r allowed) and this wud be possible, cuz we hav da all da natural resoucres,youthfull population,engineers,doctors,sciencetists,etc....
how will you get all the engineers, doctors, scientists? where will they study, where will they work..how will they be trained in cutting edge technology. do we have the resources to edcuate, train and utilize the youth and the resources? I dont think so.
as for the problems, like i said cud u give sum expamples of wch problems u mean,if ur on abt disunite, then tell me wch pakistani was bother abt wat tribe Mushraff is from??..
oh believe me people had problems and have problems, but they cant do anything, plus it is not a religion based system..it was a martial law, a dictatorship.
.if rulers 2day come into power without sum1 sayin he is shia,sunni, etc surely wen a sincere muslims comes in2 power they wont hav a problem.
are you advocating that a khalifah comes into power like a dictator? because that is contrary to what I know. Khalifah is not only picked by the people but is answerable to the people.
....as 4 other groups, as long they r islamic groups we dont mock them,
but HT does not cooperate with other groups either, even muslim groups. it can but it has a poor track record in that arena.
** and if they hav sumthing to say with stronger evidence whcih contradicts our ideas, we will sit down n discuss like human beings.....**
but see, it does not have to be a debate, its not a competition. diff groups are pursuing different goals. why would HT want to sit down and debate with some group trying to establish schools and cottage industry in uder developed areas, or groups which are providing aid to refugees? a debate on who is wrong and right is not needed, just mobilizing resources to help each other in each other's projects.
our dealinsg with other groups is advising them, if they accept,that thats fine, if they dont then thats also fine
what about being advised?
*And as 4 ppl living the Hizb, well wats that got to do with my obliagtion of doing dawa'h?...they wont to leave 4 wateve reason, it doesnt chaneg eth fact tha i need to work wit a group in establishing Khilafah. *
but as a member of any organization your goal is also to make that organization the best it could be. if it has attritiuon problems because people get disheartened and leave then you should do something abotu it.. just not be a follower, be a leader. for a progressive, strong, united, productive, effective khilafah, the people working for it must be the same..
As I mantioned above, I am not in this discussion from a religious point of view. not a "whether to" question but a "how to" and I dont see any harm if you guys hear somethingt o help you get better organized, with more accountability to deliver on goals, it will only be good and not bad.
one a side note, could Ht cut down a little bit on the rhetoric. The articles written are very often emotionally charged which may move some people but at the same time put off other people. I am often astounded at the sheer amnount of knowledge and information in some articles and I have investigated them and they are correct but I dont like spin. articles like that put me off jsut as much as some shouting emotional mullah, or some banner waving looney on fox news. to communicate to reasonable and rational people, its better to write i a reasonable, and rational manner.
Let me recap. I have no problem with the mission of HT, I think a lot can be improved in the operations, planning, strategy and execution of the strategy.
w'salam
