Muslim lesbian couple from Pakistan defies life threats, becomes first to get married

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Re: Muslim lesbian couple from Pakistan defies life threats, becomes first to get mar

of course, they are free to protest, there is even a legit flat earth society, who believe in the sanctity of the earth being flat and defend it passionately. but at the end of the day, these guys aren't elected representatives who make laws, nor do their sacred texts carry any weight in actual courts of law.

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Re: Muslim lesbian couple from Pakistan defies life threats, becomes first to get mar

Alright, fair enough technically.

Here's something else. Total assumption on my part, just to get a feel for the reaction: If they were to decide that they would openly discourage/stop any gay persons from entering Muslim community centers, and/or attend events for muslims because their following does not want them there. Would people still shrug their shoulders and say "Meh! They're the selected representatives who makes decisions inside mosques, churches, etc."? God's house=God's rules=Holy scriptures take precedence?

Totally theoretical. I just dislike the fact that we're so accustomed to bending views in our favor, even if our hearts testify that that our views are often hypocritical and selective. General observation; I'm guilty of it as well.

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Re: Muslim lesbian couple from Pakistan defies life threats, becomes first to get mar

teggy, even at the time of the Prophet (saw), if a non-Muslim state permitted same-sex marriage, companions of the Prophet wouldn't have been protesting and fighting that it is against the word of God. Instead, they'd be recommended to adhere steadfastly to their iman and ask for God's protection from fitnah and trials that invoke His displeasure.

Point is, the article you quoted - the whole approach of the imams comes under their civic duty - opposing laws legally. But what I find troubling is their insecurity or defensiveness in relation to the laws: Their job is to teach the right aqeedah to the Muslims in the mosques and provide guidance to the families - that's what they should be focusing on if they want to protect the Muslim community from homosexuality. And considering they are not living under a shariah jurisdiction, it's difficult to say the same-sex marriage legislation can be in any way defined as 'pushing' its views on the Muslims.

But your phrase regarding bending our views even when we know it's hypocritical - quite powerful.

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Re: Muslim lesbian couple from Pakistan defies life threats, becomes first to get mar

You're being very passive aggressive lol. Except for "because religion says so" give me one logical reason how a gay person harms you or your family. Keep in mind that no couple, homosexual or heterosexual should be publicly affectionate, so if someone behaves a certain way in the privacy of their home, and if marriage (which is just a moniker, would it be better if we called it a civil union?) gives them equal **civil **benefits, what's the issue? There have been plenty of threads on this: homosexual unions predate Abrahamic religions so your opposition to them (non religious civil unions) is irrational.

Gays are the ones being excluded because...well just because. They haven't stolen from, hurt, or harmed any religious person in any way, shape, or form, yet they are not wanted there. I believe that's discrimination. It's like old racists who say they have no problem with blacks, they just don't want them in white neighbourhoods. If gay marriage is against God's rules then let God judge them. An Imam/Rabbi/Priest has no business being in someone's private life.

I have a question for you: should mosques ban anyone who drinks? What if a thief was only sent to jail but wasn't prescribed a punishment outlined in Sharia, has their crime been properly atoned for? If not, should the mosque exclude them too?

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Re: Muslim lesbian couple from Pakistan defies life threats, becomes first to get mar

I apologize If I came across as being anything other than just curious to gain perspective on differing points of view.

People will always have views according to their beliefs, and everyone is entitled to believe and practice what they feel is right for them as individuals or as groups. I'm in no position to judge or put conditions on anyone except myself.

Masjid is the house of God. The same God we call Rab-al-Alameen (God of All Mankind/All worlds); therefore, it is logical that all creatures, all humans regardless of their ways of life/acts/beliefs belong to Him alone, and He alone is sufficient to judge our actions.

My point of sharing the article was to highlight the "other side of the spectrum" because the article was relevant to the topic being discussed. Where you have liberalism in the extreme, you will also have to account for religious extreme. The beauty is in finding the balance that neither treads on anyone's fundamental rights, nor enjoins anything that may be seen as obscene for a healthy society. (Definitions of which keep changing according to time/era).

In this case, the Imams wanted to voice their discontent with the proposed law, so as not to be seen as being voiceless, so they've raised their objections and displayed their position on it.

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Re: Muslim lesbian couple from Pakistan defies life threats, becomes first to get mar

teggy,

Allowing gay marriages in UK is more of a political issue than a religious one. Half the members of David Cameron's party are divided on this issue. And I doubt it's coz of the sacredness of marriage. Most likely, they're against it because marriages cost the government more money.

British Muslims and Christians, in this regard have no grounds to stand on. In Britain, homosexuals can freely have sexual relationships, civil partnership and they can adopt and raise children...so there's no point going gaga over them being married. It's all a bit hypocritical IMO. Besides, churches and mosques will have the right to deny leading such marriage ceremonies on their property.

Those 500 Imams should invest their time in something "productive".

As for "other side of the spectrum", a Cambridge Muslim lecturer and notable scholar was asked to step down by British neoconservatives. Why? Because he expressed his opinion (which is the opinion of majority of Muslims) regarding homosexuality. He didn't ask for any persecution of homosexuals...he simply said sodomy is not allowed in Islam.

Also, the queen banned the pictures taken by a French photographer of Kate Middleton's bosoms in UK, but did nothing in case of the controversial cartoon mocking the Prophet (PBUH).

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Re: Muslim lesbian couple from Pakistan defies life threats, becomes first to get mar

and in the photographs and cartoons, who is the homosexual involved? you are just randomly ranting about everything possible. :\

as for marriages costing the government money, it is the tax-payer's money. unless homosexuals are tax-exempt, why should they be the ones subsidizing other peoples families?

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Re: Muslim lesbian couple from Pakistan defies life threats, becomes first to get mar

We were talking about "live and let live" dilemma. Didn't know I had to find only an example with a homosexual involved.

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Re: Muslim lesbian couple from Pakistan defies life threats, becomes first to get mar

People should be able to marry whoever they wish. They should be able to have a normal happy life. So good for these ladies. But they aren't Muslims. They gave up on that claim the moment they undertook actions that violate the tenets of Islam.

What you have is a lesbian couple that got married.

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Re: Muslim lesbian couple from Pakistan defies life threats, becomes first to get mar

So once you break a tenet of Islam you are no longer a Muslim? That's news to me.

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Re: Muslim lesbian couple from Pakistan defies life threats, becomes first to get mar

^just reminded me of this verse of Quran.

"O you who have believed, enter into Islam completely [and perfectly] and do not follow the footsteps of Satan. Indeed, he is to you a clear enemy." 2:28

wonder what "enter into Islam completely" mean?

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Re: Muslim lesbian couple from Pakistan defies life threats, becomes first to get mar

Wouldn't it mean to believe sincerely? Because otherwise you're implying that "entering into Islam" means not breaking any rules, which is a bit far fetched since everyone breaks some rules at some point in their life.

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Re: Muslim lesbian couple from Pakistan defies life threats, becomes first to get mar

Of course, there's a huge difference between "breaking" and "totally denying" a rule. As far as I understand, by breaking a rule knowingly you are committing a sin (fasq) and by denying a rule altogether openly you are disbelieving (kufr).

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Re: Muslim lesbian couple from Pakistan defies life threats, becomes first to get mar

Many Muslim women live their whole lives without covering their hair. Are they totally denying a rule? Have you ever downloaded a song for free? Streamed a tv show for free? Is that knowingly stealing? Or are we talking about degrees of sinning now?

Who cares what someone does, it's up to Allah, not you and me, to judge that person. I'd rather have a peaceful lesbian couple as a Muslim than that psycho who beheaded that British soldier. When those incidents happen we start talking about how the Muslim world is wronged, we never deny that someone is a Muslim. When something like this happens, well they're not really Muslim anymore.

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Re: Muslim lesbian couple from Pakistan defies life threats, becomes first to get mar

I don't know where the idea of choosing one out of the two (lesbo and beheader) come from? I seriously don't know.

I think Quran's message is very clear regarding fasq and kufar. If you think it's okay to steal according to Quran then it's kufar. If you think stealing is a sin but you do it anyway then it's fasq. Take the Friday prayer's example, rejecting it is kufar, and missing it without a valid excuse is fasq.

I don't wanna repeat myself again and again. yawns

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Re: Muslim lesbian couple from Pakistan defies life threats, becomes first to get mar

The beheading was used to highlight that people never questioned their faith, but do question the lesbians'. Which person do you think is worse?

I would imagine that most gay people don't think it's okay to be gay, but realize that they're are committing a sin. That would make it fasq. No one is suggesting that Islam permits homosexuality, what I am saying was that their lifestyle is their choice, and it's up to Allah to decide whether they are Muslim or not, or good people or not. This was in response to someone saying that it's all fine because they are not Muslim anyway. It's probably a personal struggle for them. It would be pretty hard to just turn off your sexual urges.

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Re: Muslim lesbian couple from Pakistan defies life threats, becomes first to get mar

Peace Ghost14

If a gay/lesbian couple who want to be married in a Muslim matrimony they are declaring their opinion that Islam allows them to be in their gay state ... Which is Kufr ...

There is nothing wrong in having the tendency of the attraction to the same gender so long as it is not acted upon ... Marriage means that the other person is now halal for you to consumate it ... I.e. have sex.

Looking at the main article those girls have Muslim names, but no where does it say their marriage was a nikkah ... It was just a civil marriage recognised by the UK government and no one else.

BTW ... It is also the opinion of the ulema that when a murderer is doing the murder he is not in the state of Iman, but in the state of Kufr ... The difference between a murder and a marriage is that a murder is an act ... And marriage is a state of being.

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Re: Muslim lesbian couple from Pakistan defies life threats, becomes first to get mar

leave the girls alone and let them enjoy at the end of the day it's their personal matter if they did wrong according to Islam then they will get punished on the day of the judgment just worry about your self and stop being extremist.

i'm surprised those who are involving ISLAM have not given their thoughts about MUSLIMS Death threatening these girls

Is that ok to do according to islam?

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Re: Muslim lesbian couple from Pakistan defies life threats, becomes first to get mar

This.

ghost...I know what you were asking when you compared the murderer and the homosexual. I think I really wanted to say what psyah said.

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Re: Muslim lesbian couple from Pakistan defies life threats, becomes first to get mar

so are you, psyah je?