Muslim headscarves upset Europe

Society Religion & Philosophy
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PARIS (Reuters) - Is it only a piece of innocent cloth or the thin end of a threatening wedge?

The traditional Muslim woman’s headscarf is causing such controversy in some European countries that prime ministers and supreme courts are being asked to decide when it can be worn.

The hijab, as it is called in Arabic, has offended Europe’s teachers, bureaucrats and modern-minded women for over a decade. The September 11 attacks in the United States heightened fears that the veil could be covering a head full of radical thoughts.

In France, a state commission is debating whether Paris should forbid Muslim girls from wearing a scarf to class.

Not all Muslim women in Europe wear headscarves, either. But the ones who do are increasingly teenagers and young women who have grown up in Europe and want their full rights but also consider modesty in clothing an Islamic duty.

RIGHTS, SECULARISM AND SEXISM

Fereshta Ludin’s case is the second the German supreme court has handled in as many months. In August, it ruled that Muslim shop assistants could not be fired for wearing a headscarf, despite managers’ complaints that they put off customers.

Ludin, a German citizen fully qualified to teach, argues that her constitutional right to practise her religion includes the right to cover her head at work.

In France, the militant secularism born of the church-state struggles a century ago sees the headscarf as a challenge to the modern state that ignores citizens’ religious or ethnic ties.

Lacking a clear law against it, though, teachers feel helpless as the scarf-wearing fashion spreads in the poor suburbs where Europe’s largest Muslim minority lives.

Women intellectuals also reject the head covering as a sign of a macho view of women challenging the advances Western society has made. “If we accept this symbol, the equality of the sexes is finished,” says philosopher Elisabeth Badinter.

Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin has said he was ready to pass a law banning all religious effects in schools and public offices if the state commission cannot find a compromise.

The headscarf issue is also linked to popular feelings against immigration, as clearly seen in the Netherlands last year when populist Pym Fortuyn – who was later assassinated – whipped up a following by railing against Muslim immigrants.

Even in traditionally tolerant Sweden, Nadja Jebril, an ethnic Palestinian, finally won the right to have her own cooking programme on state television after she was originally turned down for another show because of her headscarf.

Fed up with all the fuss, she told an interviewer last weekend: “I am a human being with a lot of feelings and thoughts, not just a piece of cloth.”

Muslim Headscarves upset Europe

The Tolerant west for you yet again, what a bunch of hypocrites lecturing all day and night the rest of the world about the virtues about freedom and democracy but when put to the test they get all hot and bothered about a piece of cloth on a womans head. :nono:

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Some people find it divisive. It is a cultural norm issue that people are sorting through, that's all. Just as it would be divisive and controversial in a Muslim majority country to wear certain Western clothing. You sure to like to wave your finger at other people. Please tell us what society or culture is representative of your beliefs so we will have equal opportunity to wave our finger and cry hypocrisy.

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seminole,

how is a woman "divisive" if she is wearing a scarf out of her own free will. She has the freedom of religion to observe anything that is dear to her religious identity.

is a yamuka (jewish cap) divisive ? and should you be against jewish men who wear a yamuka because it is divisive ? I am sure you won't say anything or jews will cry "anti-semitism"

If a muslim woman wants to wear a scarf, that is her choice.

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interesting ....

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Re: Muslim headscarves upset Europe

Good ending statement.

What next ? all women have to wear skirts and it is a must? They might think of a uniform for all people eventually.

If all muslims quit wearing what Islam prescribes for them, what are they going to give up next ? The way we pray ? the way we think ?

Our clothing is a part of our religion. We must adhere to it to the best of our capacity. If muslims women dont wear hijab it is their choice. But if they are wearing hijab as a religious practice, then a foreign government is telling them that they cannot practice their religion completely. And that is opression.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Seminole: *
Some people find it divisive. It is a cultural norm issue that people are sorting through, that's all...
[/QUOTE]

Since when democracy dictates what you cannot wear? Isn't it YOUR RIGHT to display tattoos on lower back? Whats wrong if women want to cover their head, at least they are not promoting nudity!

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West is always the first to point fingers at Eastern countries, especially some muslim countries, like Saoudie Arabia that women have to be covered up.

The West claims itself to represent freedom for all people. Yet it does the opposite, it's almost like forcing women to take off that peace of cloth.
If you don't , in many places you either can't work or you can't attend classes. Where is the freedom? Where is democracy in that?

The West has no right to point fingers at the East, it's no better when it concerns these issue's.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Changez_like: *

Since when democracy dictates what you cannot wear? Isn't it YOUR RIGHT to display tattoos on lower back? Whats wrong if women want to cover their head, at least they are not promoting nudity!
[/QUOTE]
If an employee's tatoos, earrings, hair style, hat or other fashion accessory were to turn away customers, the employer would have the right to not hire that person. Don't you wonder why it is the headscarf that is the issue and not the yamuka? Is it because westerners hate Muslims? Europe overwhelmingly favors the Muslim cause over the Jewish cause in Palestine. We should be asking why westerners are intimidated or afraid of Muslims. The question has to be asked if there is only something wrong with these people or maybe with those around the world who are giving Islam a bad name. Or at minimum why westerners feel that there is not a loud, moderate, Muslim majority that codemns terrorism in the name of religion.

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Do they have a thing called constitution in France? Anything that says something about freedom of speech & expression?

I heard U.K's constitution doesn't protect it (or didn't used to) so they had to create those parks/stands where Brits can vent out their frustration.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Seminole: *
If an employee's tatoos, earrings, hair style, hat or other fashion accessory were to turn away customers, the employer would have the right to not hire that person.
[/quote]

I don't think tattoo, hair fashion or something similar would turn away customer. Why does customer look at sellers outlook? Customer could look at the behavior of seller but not the outlook. Anyway, that is a different discussion (or is it not?).

[quote]
Don't you wonder why it is the headscarf that is the issue and not the yamuka? Is it because westerners hate Muslims? Europe overwhelmingly favors the Muslim cause over the Jewish cause in Palestine.
[/quote]

Is Europe's favor towards Muslim over Palestine issue because they are Muslims? or is it because of what is right?

[quote]
We should be asking why westerners are intimidated or afraid of Muslims. The question has to be asked if there is only something wrong with these people or maybe with those around the world who are giving Islam a bad name. Or at minimum why westerners feel that there is not a loud, moderate, Muslim majority that codemns terrorism in the name of religion.
[/QUOTE]

When 911 happened, US did attempt to look at "why are we hated"... now tell me if US has done anything to prevent being hated? I think it has done otherwise. How does that help bridge the gap?

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[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Seminole: *
If an employee's tatoos, earrings, hair style, hat or other fashion accessory were to turn away customers, the employer would have the right to not hire that person. Don't you wonder why it is the headscarf that is the issue and not the yamuka? Is it because westerners hate Muslims? Europe overwhelmingly favors the Muslim cause over the Jewish cause in Palestine. **We should be asking why westerners are intimidated or afraid of Muslims.* The question has to be asked if there is only something wrong with these people or maybe with those around the world who are giving Islam a bad name. Or at minimum why westerners feel that there is not a loud, moderate, Muslim majority that codemns terrorism in the name of religion.
[/QUOTE]

interesting question ..

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We should be asking why westerners are intimidated or afraid of Muslims.
Not really related to head scarf. Frankly its pretty shallow to judge a person by the way they dress.

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This is a clear case of the west being exposed as being hypocritical and practing double standards.

There are no two ways about it!

They cannot lecture the world especially africa, middle east and asia about freedom and democracy when they don't even practice it themselves.

The hypocritical west have shown there shallow system for what it is full of holes and contradictions!

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True, the West is no better then the Eastern world.

It reminds me of something in the uni, few days ago, a teacher asked a Turqish student, about the situation in Turkey, the government there forbade the headscarf/hijab in public places, like schools, courts, etc.

It then seems odd to demand from the western countries to have the right to use hijab if one wishes to, while in some muslims countries like Turqey and Tunis too I think, it's forbidden! Then what do you say to the west, if our own EAstern countries start to copy the western world?..

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Sadya

I think the situation in Turkey and Tunisia is different to Europe and America.

In Turkey and Tunisia the muslims want to live by islam and want islamic state. The governments of turkey and tunisa which are military and dictatorships are fighting islam at all levels in these countries from the mosques to the women protecting her honour.

In Europe the muslims are not calling for islamic state there they asking for there rights as muslims to live as muslims including the women protecting her honour and wearing hijab.

Because Europe can't handle a woman choosing to wear Hijab (womens islamic clothing) they have clearly shown the contradiction and weakness of there system which they call democracy and freedom because if you choose as woman to wear islamic hijab then the freedom claim goes out the window and you will be victimised by the laws there.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ak47: *
In Turkey and Tunisia the muslims want to live by islam and want islamic state..
[/QUOTE]

haha, have u ever been to turkey? Most of the people there dont even care about religion anymore, besides, they dont any love for having a khalifah. They knew how impervious they were during the fall of the ottoman empire.

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I've never had any problems with my scarf in Europe.

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This topic is about Muslims headscarves upset Europe, instead you want to focus on issue of travelling to turkey and questioning the belief of the muslims there.

Seeing as you are trying to portray the entire population of turkey 60million as people who don’t give a damn about islam and don’t want return of islamic state then refute the following:

Islamists Win Landslide election in Turkey

Turkey bans Election winning Islamists

Now how about commenting on the main topic instead Muslim headscarves upset Europe :topic:

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ak, my comment was based on your comment saying that the people of turkey want a khalifah state of islam... Apparently, you know nothing about those people... those two links are nothing but fruitcakes, I suggest you talk to anyone who has been to turkey

As for my views on niqab, its a person's personal choice, but I seriously think that those who are for it, should remain their countries and not immigrate to places where they know they would feel out of context. I mean think about it, if you wear a burqah and roam around the streets in the west, you are out of place... Remember how a vieled woman from iran was beaten up and thrown from a bus in Canada by ignorant racist canadians? Its best to avoid such situations.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sadya: *

It then seems odd to demand from the western countries to have the right to use hijab if one wishes to, while in some muslims countries like Turqey and Tunis too I think, it's forbidden! Then what do you say to the west, if our own EAstern countries start to copy the western world?..
[/QUOTE]

Question did come to my mind alot of time. Basically the perspective of dictating the way others dress or chose to follow their religion is wrong.(regardless of where it is happening east or west) Getting into fight about west or east does not make it any better. Lets be critical of the wrong thinking instead of whole western part of the world.