Re: Muslim Blood - Cheap Commodity by Yvonne Ridley
You're telling me that I need to go pull out ayahs from the Quran that emphasize how important it is to read GOD's message and to implement these messages into their lives and how often this is mentioned in the Quran FOR a lady who claims she read the Quran?
Maybe you need to read it a bit harder. It hard to miss those sort of messages when you open up the Glorious Kitaab.
Re: Muslim Blood - Cheap Commodity by Yvonne Ridley
You're telling me that I need to go pull out ayahs from the Quran that emphasize how important it is to read GOD's message and to implement these messages into their lives and how often this is mentioned in the Quran FOR a lady who claims she read the Quran?
Maybe you need to read it a bit harder. It hard to miss those sort of messages when you open up the Glorious Kitaab.
No actually I'm asking for a proof from Qur'an from people like you who claim that ahadith are fabricated, unauthentic etc, if you can show me that then we can go ahead. Thank you
Re: Muslim Blood - Cheap Commodity by Yvonne Ridley
Again, you show that you cannot understand words you read. I have never said ahadith are fabricated or unauthentic.
Quite the opposite actually, however I have shown there is quite a difference in how hadith were collected and how the Quran was compiled, which is assumed to be of the same oral process --> written form transition.
I think most ahadith probably are right on the dot. Some, however, may be misinerpreted and therefore, misrecorded. Others, are included in the sets of hadith and are quite clearly delineated in historical commentaries as dubious or weak, vs. strong; which is something the hadith collectors were quite keen on emphasizing when they were unsure of themselves. This is information that we do not use; and this is information that sets the Quran very much apart from the Hadith.
Re: Muslim Blood - Cheap Commodity by Yvonne Ridley
Again, you show that you cannot understand words you read. I have never said ahadith are fabricated or unauthentic.
Good...at least we can agree on something then.
Re: Muslim Blood - Cheap Commodity by Yvonne Ridley
The Quran states it is complete, perfect and fully detailed:
6:19: *Say, “Whose testimony is the greatest?” Say, “GOD’s. He is the witness between me and you that this Quran has been inspired to me, to preach it to you and whomever it reaches. Indeed, you bear witness that there are other gods beside GOD.” Say, “I do not testify as you do; there is only one god, and I disown your idolatry.” *
6:38: All the creatures on earth, and all the birds that fly with wings, are communities like you. We did not leave anything out of this book*. To their Lord, all these creatures will be summoned. *
6:114: Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt. *
6:115: *The word of your Lord is complete, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient. *
50:45: We are fully aware of everything they utter, while you have no power over them. Therefore, remind with this Quran, those who reverence My warnings.
It futher states that religious regulatoins NOT in the Quran constitute a religion other than Islam:
42:21: *They follow idols who decree for them religious laws never authorized by GOD. If it were not for the predetermined decision, they would have been judged immediately. Indeed, the transgressors have incurred a painful retribution. *
17:46: We place shields around their minds, to prevent them from understanding it, and deafness in their ears. And when you preach your Lord, using the Quran alone, they run away in aversion.
Re: Muslim Blood - Cheap Commodity by Yvonne Ridley
Seems like you chose only those ayahs to post which suited your purpose.
And verily in the Messenger of Allah ye have a good example for him who looketh unto Allah and the last day and remembereth Allah much. (Al-Ahzab 33:21)
But no, by thy Lord, they can have no real faith until they make thee judge in all disputes between them and find in their souls no resistance against thy decisions but accept them with the fullest conviction. (An-Nisaa’ 4:65)
The answer of the believers, when summoned to Allah and His Messenger, in order that He may judge between them, is no other than this: They say: we hear and we obey. (An-Nur 24: 51)
**Obey Allah and obey the Messenger **(An-Nisaa’ 4:59) and, **Whatever the Messenger giveth you, take it, and whatever he forbiddeth, abstain from it ** (Al-Hashr 59:7).
**Allah did confer a great favor on the believers when He sent among them a messenger from among themselves, rehearsing unto them the signs of Allah, purifying them, and teaching them the Book and the wisdom while, before that, they had been in manifest error. **(Aal `Imran 3:164)
And We have sent down unto thee the Remembrance that thou mayest explain clearly to mankind what is sent for them. (An-Nahl 16:44)
He commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good and pure and prohibits them from what is bad and impure. He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them. (Al-A`raf 7:157)
O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything amongst yourselves refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the Last Day. (An-Nisaa’ 4:59)
It is not fitting for a believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger to have any option about their decision. If any one disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he is indeed on a clearly wrong path. (Al-Ahzab 33:36)
And whoso opposeth the Messenger after the guidance (of Allah) hath been manifested unto him, and followeth other than the believer’s way, We shall leave him in the path he has chosen, and shall cause him to endure hell—a hapless journey’s end! (An-Nisaa’ 4:115)
The importance of Hadith is increased for the Muslim by the fact that the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) not only taught, but took the opportunity of putting his teachings into practice in all the important affairs of life. He lived for twenty three years after his appointment as the Messenger of Allah. He endowed his community with a religion, which he scrupulously practiced himself. He founded a state, which he administered as the supreme head, maintaining internal peace and order, heading armies for external defense, judging and deciding the litigations of his subjects, punishing the criminals, and legislating in all walks of life. He married and left a model of family life. Another important fact is that he did not declare himself to be above the ordinary law which he imposed on others. His practice was not mere private conduct, but a detailed interpretation and application of his teachings. ( Introduction to Islam, p. 23)
Re: Muslim Blood - Cheap Commodity by Yvonne Ridley
Peace Seminole
If that is enough for you then just accept the Qur’an as the Word of God …
Re: Muslim Blood - Cheap Commodity by Yvonne Ridley
Sister this is highly subjective in the way you have expressed it... but I'd rather not get into this. Just thought I'd remind you.
Seems like you chose only those ayahs to post which suited your purpose. And verily in the Messenger of Allah ye have a good example for him who looketh unto Allah and the last day and remembereth Allah much. (Al-Ahzab 33:21)
But no, by thy Lord, they can have no real faith until they make thee judge in all disputes between them and find in their souls no resistance against thy decisions but accept them with the fullest conviction. (An-Nisaa' 4:65)
The answer of the believers, when summoned to Allah and His Messenger, in order that He may judge between them, is no other than this: They say: we hear and we obey. (An-Nur 24: 51)
*Obey Allah and obey the Messenger *(An-Nisaa' 4:59) and, *Whatever the Messenger giveth you, take it, and whatever he forbiddeth, abstain from it * (Al-Hashr 59:7).
*Allah did confer a great favor on the believers when He sent among them a messenger from among themselves, rehearsing unto them the signs of Allah, purifying them, and teaching them the Book and the wisdom while, before that, they had been in manifest error. *(Aal `Imran 3:164)
And We have sent down unto thee the Remembrance that thou mayest explain clearly to mankind what is sent for them. (An-Nahl 16:44)
He commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good and pure and prohibits them from what is bad and impure. He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them. (Al-A`raf 7:157)
O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything amongst yourselves refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the Last Day. (An-Nisaa' 4:59)
It is not fitting for a believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger to have any option about their decision. If any one disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he is indeed on a clearly wrong path. (Al-Ahzab 33:36)
And whoso opposeth the Messenger after the guidance (of Allah) hath been manifested unto him, and followeth other than the believer's way, We shall leave him in the path he has chosen, and shall cause him to endure hell—a hapless journey's end! (An-Nisaa' 4:115)
The importance of Hadith is increased for the Muslim by the fact that the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) not only taught, but took the opportunity of putting his teachings into practice in all the important affairs of life. He lived for twenty three years after his appointment as the Messenger of Allah. He endowed his community with a religion, which he scrupulously practiced himself. He founded a state, which he administered as the supreme head, maintaining internal peace and order, heading armies for external defense, judging and deciding the litigations of his subjects, punishing the criminals, and legislating in all walks of life. He married and left a model of family life. Another important fact is that he did not declare himself to be above the ordinary law which he imposed on others. His practice was not mere private conduct, but a detailed interpretation and application of his teachings. ( Introduction to Islam, p. 23)
Re: Muslim Blood - Cheap Commodity by Yvonne Ridley
You're telling me that I need to go pull out ayahs from the Quran that emphasize how important it is to read GOD's message and to implement these messages into their lives and how often this is mentioned in the Quran FOR a lady who claims she read the Quran?
Maybe you need to read it a bit harder. It hard to miss those sort of messages when you open up the Glorious Kitaab.
Ullema of this deen have read it the hardest, and no one can compare to their status. Especially not you.
Mullahs, Alims, Muftis, Shaikhs, are the defenders of this deen, and if they can attest to Quran and hadith being then focal point of our religion, then whatever crap you bring in, is utterly futile.
This kind of crap belongs in books of Irshad Manji, Salman Rushdie, Tariq Fatah and the likes.
Re: Muslim Blood - Cheap Commodity by Yvonne Ridley
So not only do you suggest putting Muhammad on par with the Quran, but also what he supposedly said and did, ullema, mullahs, alims, muftis, shaiks and other un-named defenders.
Does it dawn on anybody that about the time Muslims started putting hadith on par with the Quran is when the decline of Muslims began? Early Muslims rose to the pinnacle of success when they practiced monotheism as preached in the Quran. Then teachings that may or may not been taught by Muhammad (and were surely NOT part of the Quran) gained foothold in the Muslim community, they turned away from the ideology that initially brought them success.
And what has happened since that time that gives Muslims strong faith that this practice of Quran/hadith/sunnah has in any way benefited Muslims or pleases God? It's been downhill ever since. Just because "that's the way it's been for centuries" doesn't make it right.
Re: Muslim Blood - Cheap Commodity by Yvonne Ridley
So not only do you suggest putting Muhammad on par with the Quran, but also what he supposedly said and did, ullema, mullahs, alims, muftis, shaiks and other un-named defenders.
Does it dawn on anybody that about the time Muslims started putting hadith on par with the Quran is when the decline of Muslims began? Early Muslims rose to the pinnacle of success when they practiced monotheism as preached in the Quran. Then teachings that may or may not been taught by Muhammad (and were surely NOT part of the Quran) gained foothold in the Muslim community, they turned away from the ideology that initially brought them success.
And what has happened since that time that gives Muslims strong faith that this practice of Quran/hadith/sunnah has in any way benefited Muslims or pleases God? It's been downhill ever since. Just because "that's the way it's been for centuries" doesn't make it right.
You have your concept of Hadith all wrong. Quran is the word, command, and law of God, Hadiths are the implementation of that in practise.
Re: Muslim Blood - Cheap Commodity by Yvonne Ridley
Sorry, Ali_R, but you think **those hadith are authentic and authoritative and you **think they should be regarded as almost as importantly as the Quran itself. Nobody can say they absolutely "know" those things are true. Only Muslim tradtion, history and culture makes you think you do. Sorry, but a collection of traditions put together 200 years after the death of Muhammed doesn't qualify as known fact.
Seminole, If you think logically you will see that almost nothing (historically speaking) had proofs except those many even we know as history Itself (another collection of sayings and words of those who lived at that time). I had backed the authenticy of S. Bukhari, I did It on purpose to let you know that not every HADITH is as authentic as the Hadith collection of S. Bukhari.
However If you speak on such proves....where is the proof on +5 million jews have been brutally murdered by Nazi's at WWII. Besides some collections of jewish authors claiming these facts to be true. (Not arguing on either I myself do believe in it or not. So refrain from this topic please!).
Back to the main topic Itself. Something you failed to learn is that Religion needs a belief(er).
If one doest then even religious historic events seem to him/her as fiction and fanstasies of mullahs, sufis and prophets regardless of many facts and figures mentioned by them. Since many go by the words of "Seeing is believing..." and I believe you to consider yourself to be one of them.
Thus I would take my claim over S. Bukharis Hadiths to be fool-proof very serious.
And next time before discussing with me you rather differ between the truth you know and reject and the lies you accept and publish here to prove your point.
Re: Muslim Blood - Cheap Commodity by Yvonne Ridley
Ali_R, you anti-Semite, you. How dare you question the Holocaust! By the way the magical number is 6 million, not 5 million.
But there are a number of disturbing Hadiths in Bukhari which paint the Prophet in a very odd and negative way. Just plain weird.
(1) Bukhari (Book of Nikah 3:52) The Holy Messenger used to have intercourse with all his wives in one hour of the day and night. The Holy Prophet used to visit all his wives every night.
(2) Bukhari (Book of Nikah 3:110) Prophet Sulaiman used to boast that he would impregnate 100 women in one night but only one woman became pregrant and gave birth to a half-formed child.
(3) Bukhari (Book of Niakh 3:55) The Holy Prophet disapproved his companion Jabir's plan to marry a widow and asked "Why did you not marry a virgin so that you played with her and she played with you".
(4) Bukhari (Book of Nikah 3:57) The prophet Ibrahim lied three times.
(5) Bukhari (Book of Nikah 3:59) After the fall of Khyber, the prophet chose Safia for herself after some people described her beauty. On the way to Madina, he stopped and had intercourse with her.
(6) Bukhari (Book of Nikah 3:97) The Prophet said "I saw that most of those entering hell were women".
(7) Bukhari (Kitabul Jihaad 2:134) The Prophet allowed Mohammad bin Muslima, a Muslim to kill Kaab bin Ashraf, a non-Muslim, by deception.
(8) Bukhari (Beginning of Creation 2:225) Hoors will be full breasted and free of menstruration.
(9) Bukhari (Beginning of Creation 2:231) Hellfire complained to Allah "One part of me is eating the other". So hellfire was allowed to have two breaths, one in summer and one in winter. That is how you see the change in seasons.
(10) Bukhari (beginning of Creation 2:237) Azaan puts Satan to flight, expelling gas as he flees.
(11) Bukhari (Beginning of Creation 2:241) Satan rests at night in your noses.
(12) Bukhari (Beginning of Creation 2:244) Rats are the lost tribe of Israel because they drink goat's milk, not camel's milk.
(13) Bukhari (Beginning of Creation 2:251) Woman was created from the rib, so she will alwayes remain crooked. Leave her crooked.
(14) Bukhari (Kitabul Anbiya) Prophet Ayoob was having a bath. Locusts of gold started raining on him.
(15) Bukhari (Book of Bath 1:193) Maimoona said that she gazed at the Prophet taking a bath after having intercourse with her, until she saw him wash his private parts.
(16) Bukhari (Book of Bath) Ayesha said that the Prophet used place a pillow in her lap even though she was menstruating and then he would recite the Quran.
(17) Bukhari Bukhari (Book of Menstruation 1:98) If the Prophet wanted to have intercourse with a menstruating wife, he ordered her to tie a loincloth even if the bleeding was at its peak.
(18) Bukhari (Book of Nikah 2:691) Ayesha relates " The Prophet used to have intercourse with us and kiss us while he was fasting".
(19) Bukhari (Kitabul Talaq p 143) The Prophet addressed his wife Safiya "O you bald-headed perished one".
(20) Bukhari (Book of Nikah p.96) The Prophet said "When a woman refuses to come to her husband's bed, the angels curse her until she does".
Re: Muslim Blood - Cheap Commodity by Yvonne Ridley
^ These ahadeeth have been deliberately framed to portray the Prophet (sas) in a negative manner. The words have been played around with to purposely, and some have even been reworded to meet the purpose.
A couple of example which i may throw at your face:
You said:
quote Bukhari (Book of Bath 1:193) Maimoona said that she gazed at the Prophet taking a bath after having intercourse with her, until she saw him wash his private parts.
[/quote]
The real hadith:
[quote]
*Volume 1, Book 5, Number 275: *
Narrated Maimuna: **I placed water for the bath of the Prophet and screened him with a garment.* He poured water over his hands and washed them. After that he poured water with his right hand over his left and washed his private parts, rubbed his hands with earth and washed them, rinsed his mouth, washed his nose by putting water in it and then blowing it out and then washed his face and forearms. He poured water over his head and body. He then shifted from that place and washed his feet. I gave him a piece of cloth but he did not take it and came out removing the water (from his body) with both his hands. *
[/quote]
Surely you'd know the difference between screening and gazing.
You said:
quote Bukhari (Beginning of Creation 2:251) Woman was created from the rib, so she will alwayes remain crooked. Leave her crooked.
[/quote]
The Real Hadith
[quote]
*Volume 4, Book 55, Number 548: *
[INDENT]Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah 's Apostle said, "Treat women nicely, for a women is created from a rib, and the most curved portion of the rib is its upper portion, so, if you should try to straighten it, it will break, but if you leave it as it is, it will remain crooked. So treat women nicely."[/INDENT]
[/quote]
Kitab al Nikah is Volume 7, Book 62. What the hell is
quote Bukhari (Book of Nikah 3:52)
[/quote]
Re: Muslim Blood - Cheap Commodity by Yvonne Ridley
I dont know what you were trying to do here. Attack the Prophet (sas) or attack the second most authentic text in Islam.
I dont have time right now to dig up each and every hadith which you have misquoted to meet your evil purpose. I hope the two examples i pointed out would be enough. I tried searching for more hadith and i never found them. Your Bukhari reference numbers are wrong. Some of the crap you've posted here, is not even there in the Bukhari.
Re: Muslim Blood - Cheap Commodity by Yvonne Ridley
I dont know what you were trying to do here. Attack the Prophet (sas) or attack the second most authentic text in Islam.
I dont have time right now to dig up each and every hadith which you have misquoted to meet your evil purpose. I hope the two examples i pointed out would be enough. I tried searching for more hadith and i never found them. Your Bukhari reference numbers are wrong. Some of the crap you've posted here, is not even there in the Bukhari.
They think they are the vessel for Islamic Knowledge, and think highly of themselves, more so than Ullema-e-Karam. Thats what their problem is. Just ignore them.
Re: Muslim Blood - Cheap Commodity by Yvonne Ridley
Looks like I hit a nerve. Now suddenly the fairy tales of “Sahih” Bukhari, written 200 after the Prophet’s death, becomes the second most authentic book in Islam.
And people wonder why Muslims are stuck in the stone age. I don’t need to attack the Prophet Muhammad, the idiotic tales in Bukhari do it themselves. That’s why I don’t believe in them.
The hadith is still calling women crooked and saying that men should treat them nicely precisely because they are crooked. Did the Prophet Muhammad treat his wives nicely because he felt sorry for their crookedness?
I treat my wife well, because I love her, not because I think she is “crooked”.
Please continue to rip apart those hadiths.
Maybe you could explain how Bukhari found out that the Prophet said that the angels curse a woman who refuses to have sex with her husband. Maybe the Prophet (or Bukhari) was using this to trick his wives into having sex with him.
Re: Muslim Blood - Cheap Commodity by Yvonne Ridley
To begin with, i dont even know who you are. Clearly your attitude is unIslamic, and i will judge you on the apparent and I''ll talk to you assuming you're a kafir insulting Islam.
First of all your assumption that ahadeeth were written 200 yrs after the death of the Prophet is totally wrong. Please bring in evidence to support your view. Sahih Bukhari is nothing but a Compilation, so whatever is in it surely existed before Bukhari and the Sahih does come complete with references and everything. So the burden of proof is on you to prove that whatever is in the Bukhari wasn't there until 200 years after the death of the Prophet.
You say you treat your wife nicely because you love her. Your treatment to her is based solely on emotions. Tommorow IF you find someone else who'd rock your boat harder and couple it with her losing those attributes for which you fell in love with her and you'd stop loving you wife and as a result stop treating her nicely.
Compare this to a person whose code of life is Islam, he treats his wife nicely and he'd love her nicely for all the reason why a man would love his wife or hate his wife.
Dont just hate something for the sake of hating it. Hate it for a reason.
Re: Muslim Blood - Cheap Commodity by Yvonne Ridley
Ali_R, you anti-Semite, you. How dare you question the Holocaust! By the way the magical number is 6 million, not 5 million.
Moonshiner, my jewish friend.
There is a difference between 5 million and +5 million.
There is also a difference between Hadiths quoted from some fake sources and then labelled as S. Bukharis or the authentic phrases from S.Bukharis collection Itself!
I have read the below posted ones and they are quite easy to get from any site these days + you get It even for your mobile phones, but one needs the knowledge to differ between fake and authentic!
Besides that you should read my above post with more passion and you will understand my argument on the holocaust issue.
I hope you understand this. Thank you.
Re: Muslim Blood - Cheap Commodity by Yvonne Ridley
Please go visit a Scholar. Do us all ,especially yourself a favour.