Muslim and Non Muslim

cricketplaya · April 12, 2010, 12:20am

Obviously this is a matter of desire because if you loved someone, you would want for him/her to submit to Allah and not disobey Allah by accepting a non-Muslim into your life (Yahoodi/Esai is different matter). It's all a test from Allah swt to see who falls for this dunya and who does not. That is why we have a book of guidance and that is why we have day of judgment to see who has the good deeds and who has the sins.

Mr Aimless Wonder, we do not even know if you're Muslim. Much of your posts that I've been reading are pro-Hindu anti-Islam, pro-Indian anti-Pakistan.

So unless your a Muslim, you should have no interest in giving "advice" to others on Islam.

To others, stop discussing such important issues with this guy until he states what religion he follows.

InLimbo · April 12, 2010, 5:39am

farrah:

by putting multiple exclamations, you arent making it sound any more important. it is important even without one.

if you dare to understand what i am saying, we wouldnt be arguing over this.

**i dont deny that God permits you to marry into women of previous books. **but i am against of how lightly this ruling is taken .. and there are marriages happening left right and center between muslim men/n-muslim women without any consideration to under what circumstances such a marriage can take place.

how do you think a real virtuous christian/jewish woman would feel when her muslim husband is like our kids will be muslim but they can hear nice things about your religion too ... just dont talk abou the trinity ok! i dont think so. it is for the same reason that a practicing muslim woman wont marry a non-muslim man.

as for you saying who are we to judge. have you ever come across or read about a muslim man who went into marriage with a non-muslm woman because he was blown out of his wits about the girls dedicatin to her religion?

it is a rule. you cant just marry any christian/jewish woman. but marriages of the sort happen normally out of love, which was first a physical attraction.

and i keep talking of bosoms as an example to tell you how man is so strict regarding laws about women, in contrast to laws about himself. i havent seen any man being prosecuted for marrying a christian woman who is one only by birth, and not practice.

Thank you, now I agree with your post.

You are right about the problems with marrying a Christian/Jewish woman but you cannot say that it is not allowed. What you can do, as you did in your previous post, is to acknowledge the fact that it is permitted and then list the issues that will arise from such a union.

As someone pointed out to you earlier in the thread that Trinity was well established by the time Muslims were given permission to marry women of the scripture, so it's not like that Allah did not realize that and just made a mistake.

The reason I was asking you not to judge all Christians/Jews is because I personally know couples right here in the US of A, where the mom is a Christian, yet the kids are raised staunchly Muslim. These women take them to mosques and madarsas and Quran lessons and Arabic lessons and etc etc etc. And when you see that, you realize the limitless wisdom of Allah and refrain from second guessing him.

Now before you bring it up, let me acknowledge that fact that more often than not the children of such marriages grow up confused and non-religious.

But then again I see hundreds upon hundreds of families where both parents are Muslims and the kids are just like the local kids and do things that we cannot even discuss here while staying civil.
Should we now prohibit marriages between Muslim men and women, while here in the US, because there is a good chance that growing up here the kids will go astray?

farrah · April 12, 2010, 3:11pm

InLimbo:

Thank you, now I agree with your post.

You are right about the problems with marrying a Christian/Jewish woman but you cannot say that it is not allowed. What you can do, as you did in your previous post, is to acknowledge the fact that it is permitted and then list the issues that will arise from such a union.

i never ever said it is not allowed. i only said i am against it. everytime we hear something going against our likeness, we are quick to jump of how it is taken ot of context. well ... similarly, i am not liking how your stress is solely upon the permission, but not the guidlines. read CPs post.

As someone pointed out to you earlier in the thread that Trinity was well established by the time Muslims were given permission to marry women of the scripture, so it's not like that Allah did not realize that and just made a mistake.

islam came after christianity. meaning trinity came before islam. so my point then was invalid. trinity is mentioned in the quran, but not in the bible. and your point, therefore, is also invalid.

The reason I was asking you not to judge all Christians/Jews is because I personally know couples right here in the US of A, where the mom is a Christian, yet the kids are raised staunchly Muslim. These women take them to mosques and madarsas and Quran lessons and Arabic lessons and etc etc etc. And when you see that, you realize the limitless wisdom of Allah and refrain from second guessing him.

we are not even to the point of having kids. if the christian woman in this situation is still not married under the rules prescribed to this muslim man, the marriage is not a marriage to me then. just like a muslim's woman's marriage to a non-muslim who converts for marriage alone, is not a marriage in my eyes. your point to me will basically nullify the restriction put on muslim women to marry non-muslims. because if she raises muslim kids in her marriage, i should be able to say ..hey...the kids were damn good muslims, which is the criteria, so who am i to judge?

Now before you bring it up, let me acknowledge that fact that more often than not the children of such marriages grow up confused and non-religious.

again. we arent even to the point of kids yet.

But then again I see hundreds upon hundreds of families where both parents are Muslims and the kids are just like the local kids and do things that we cannot even discuss here while staying civil. Should we now prohibit marriages between Muslim men and women, while here in the US, because there is a good chance that growing up here the kids will go astray?

things gone wrong, which are done keeping the rules of the Quran in mind, are possible. life is not maths, that 2+2=4. if you defu Allah's rule, there is still a possibility that you'll be a successful human beings. if you accept Allah's rule, there is still a possibility that you wont have a successful life. material success is not the measure Allah uses. it's like those people who dont know too much about farming, but have strict faith in Allah say that I should get the best crop in the world. and a hindu with a degree in cultivation should miserably fail.

life is neither straight forward. nor complicated. it's a mix. depends on who is able to do what according to his limited knowledge and resources.
i even have a problem using the term muslim so randomly like this. i think i'll use the term fitri muslim from now on.

burqaposhx · April 12, 2010, 3:25pm

Question!

Is any of the posters on this thread, planning to marry a non-Muslim?

Aimless_Wonder · April 12, 2010, 4:29pm

pro-Hindu & pro-India => absolutely yes
anti-Muslim & anti-Pakistan => absolutely not.

BTW I don't give any Quranic advise; my questions are simply based on human thought about fairness and righteousness. These do not change based on what one's religion is.

InLimbo · April 13, 2010, 6:05am

farrah:

i never ever said it is not allowed. i only said i am against it. everytime we hear something going against our likeness, we are quick to jump of how it is taken ot of context. well ... similarly, i am not liking how your stress is solely upon the permission, but not the guidlines. read CPs post.

We are ok there as long as you accept the fact that it is allowed.

islam came after christianity. meaning trinity came before islam. so my point then was invalid. trinity is mentioned in the quran, but not in the bible. and your point, therefore, is also invalid.

***Never claimed it was in the Bible so you are invalidating a point that was never made.

we are not even to the point of having kids. if the christian woman in this situation is still not married under the rules prescribed to this muslim man, the marriage is not a marriage to me then. just like a muslim's woman's marriage to a non-muslim who converts for marriage alone, is not a marriage in my eyes.

Totally personal on your part, nothing to do with how Islam looks at it. Those marriages are valid. Kids are the biggest issue in a mixed marriage, if there are no kids in the equation there isn't much conflict anyways since each partner can just follow his/her own religion quite easily, since there is no one they will be passing their beliefs on to, not much of an issue.

your point to me will basically nullify the restriction put on muslim women to marry non-muslims. because if she raises muslim kids in her marriage, i should be able to say ..hey...the kids were damn good muslims, which is the criteria, so who am i to judge?

You are again second guessing Allah, the restrictions are there for a reason, we may not be able to comprehend them but they are there. A Muslim women in a marriage with a non-muslim man may not be able to raise kids muslim as easily, but it is not allowed that's a simple fact of Islam. Again nullifying that point is totally personal on your part. It seems like you an an issue with a lot of rulings of Islam?

again. we arent even to the point of kids yet.

Addressed above.

things gone wrong, which are done keeping the rules of the Quran in mind, are possible. life is not maths, that 2+2=4. if you defu Allah's rule, there is still a possibility that you'll be a successful human beings. if you accept Allah's rule, there is still a possibility that you wont have a successful life. material success is not the measure Allah uses. it's like those people who dont know too much about farming, but have strict faith in Allah say that I should get the best crop in the world. and a hindu with a degree in cultivation should miserably fail.

***Yes exactly follow Allah's rule and don't try to second guess him and life actually is quite simple.
                              life is neither straight forward. nor complicated. it's a mix.  depends on who is able to do what according to his limited knowledge and  resources.
i even have a problem using the term muslim so randomly like this. i think i'll use the term fitri muslim from now on.

***Again entirely personal.

Take care. I will not be able to response for the next few days.

Faris_Udeen · April 13, 2010, 8:56am

Re: Muslim and Non Muslim

Heres a typical historical example for you guys to mull over.

Any fellow that decides he wants to marry a hindu lady, forget it we all know the story of Akbar and Saleems constant warefare.

If the Mughals could be shattered by this move then who are you!

Simple answer is no!

If you want a decent fammioly find a decent woman.

farrah · April 13, 2010, 4:03pm

So till you come back ... or perhaps not ...

InLimbo:

Never claimed it was in the Bible so you are invalidating a point that was never made.

i wasnt claiming that you said this or not ... i was making a point that it was pointless of you to repeat what i had already accepted ...

Totally personal on your part, nothing to do with how Islam looks at it. Those marriages are valid. Kids are the biggest issue in a mixed marriage, if there are no kids in the equation there isn't much conflict anyways since each partner can just follow his/her own religion quite easily, since there is no one they will be passing their beliefs on to, not much of an issue.

nothing to do with islam? if you think those are valid marriages, then you're simply going against the Quran you're so proudly advicating.

You are again second guessing Allah, the restrictions are there for a reason, we may not be able to comprehend them but they are there. A Muslim women in a marriage with a non-muslim man may not be able to raise kids muslim as easily, but it is not allowed that's a simple fact of Islam. Again nullifying that point is totally personal on your part. It seems like you an an issue with a lot of rulings of Islam.

If i say something, then i'm second guessing Allah. if you find a weird situation that seems normal on the outside, who are we to judge? shabash! i dont have a problem with any ruling of Islam. I have a problem with people who distort them for their benefit. i wont be repeating this again. you're just so fixated on "but we are allowed, and the rest dont matter" criteria. if you can understand that. good. if not. too bad.

Yes exactly follow Allah's rule and don't try to second guess him and life actually is quite simple.

nobody is second guessing anyone here. except that now you've confused me as to what your position is. are you in a marriage already with a non-muslim woman who isnt a virtuous christian/jew?

Aimless_Wonder · April 13, 2010, 4:50pm

so if your friend goes for a walk and gets mugged, you will stop going for a walk?