Muslim and Non Muslim

Miss_Noland,

on one side you claim you believe in Allah and the holy book, Quran… on the other side you question Him.

Before getting confused even more, I think one should take a break and pray to Allah for guidance; to rid of the confusion.

and to the problems you highlighted… there won’t be any problem :insh: because one man will not marry without considering the lifestyle of the woman. Just like other important decisions in life we take care of every detail, same way when getting married one should marry a pious person. The man should first invite her to the truth even she’s Jewish or Christian. Anyways, I think all these specific issues will confuse you even more.. just pray for a sign :insh:

I’m sure knowledgeable brothers and sisters will answer your questions, I don’t have much knowledge.

Re: Muslim and Non Muslim

I was just trying to clarify the position that essentially if anyone converts to Islam, marriage is valid…I guess I just did it in a roundabout fashion :hehe:…anyway, you all got the point.

and where is that written?

as far i know, Muslim Men are allowed to marry Chris & Jew !

First, your last point: You are absolutely right that problems are likely to happen one way or another, which is why marriage to non-Muslims is discouraged.

Secondly, you didn't try to negate the argument put forward by the scholars in cricketplaya's post: that most societies apply pressure on wives to conform with the husband's norms. That has been a steady influence for the past millenium and a half.

Thirdly, you argue that the intent of permitting marriage to non-muslims must be to enable men to marry more times. You ignore how Islam encourages a violent response to national violent provocation (rather than turning the other cheek), which means that historically most Islamic states from the time of the Prophet( pbuh) to very recently) were regularly at war. Muslim countries rarely had professional armies and instead used conscripted or volunteer civilian men as soldiers, which means that there were high male mortality rates. Polygamy offered a way of sustaining the Muslim population under these circumstances.

The objective of this third point is that the overwhelming majority of Muslim polygamous marriage have historically been, and continue to be, amongst Muslims. Your point that the purposes of being able to marry non-Muslim women must be to support polygamy is therefore invalid.

I will correct you because you are wrong.

The Trinity was already well established by the time that the Quran, and the verses permitting marriage to Christians, was revealed.

The Quran (4:171) says, in a verse addressed to the Ahl-e-Kitaab, the same Ahl-e-Kitaab who Muslims are permitted to marry into, that:

O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.

Re: Muslim and Non Muslim

alright. accepted.
but how many may actually marry women who are true christians or jews? how many christians or jews are there anyways?
it's a bit funny how in this case everybody is like, it's plainly mentioned in the Quran that muslim men can marry so and so woman .. and that is that, else we are going against the Quran ... and when talking about the hijab .... they are going into details of what a khimar meant according to the times of when it was revealed.

True. I don't know about the US, but in the UK only 37% of the population consider themselves to be Christian. In most western countries the majority of the locals are agnostic or atheist these days.

there you have it …
now lets pass a fatwa against all those men having married the non-christian/jewish women :silly: jk!

but i honeslty feel that Quran needs to be handled with justice … the same justice it has provided for both man and woman … and not go into unnecessary excessive details when it comes to women, and not just brush pass subjects that talk about men

equality!

So on one hand, Muslims claim that the Quran is Timeless but when arguments arise, you are quick to point out how it's time bound. Stop comparing the rest of the world with Islam. The rest of the world isn't claiming to follow Allah, it's YOU proclaiming how Allah expects us to live our lives.

As i said earlier there is no way for us to judge if someone is a true Christian or not. Someone you are judgeing to be immoral and dismissing as being sinner/kaffir/infisdel because of what you see as the normal lifestyle in the west, maybe a more pious person than you or I, maybe more dear to God that you or I. Can you afford to sit in judgement?
Of course a Muslim man marrying a woman of scripture will have to make that judgement call since it will effect him and his future children directly.

You said Muslim men are not allowed to marry Christian/Jewish women, which is the exact opposite of what the quran says, if you said women are not allowed to cover themselves in Islam, which is total opposite of what Islam says then I am sure someone will correct you there as well. Discussing Khimar is a minor detail not a total 180 from what the quran/islam says.

very convenient! splendid.

i never said they arent allowed to cover themselves. But nowhere in the Quran does it explicitly say about covering the *head *either. that is where the discussion begins and people go into the nitty gritty of what means what.

you know better of what goes around on this planet if a bunch of hair stick out from under a head scarf, in comparison to if a muslim man marries an unbelieving-christian!

what you're saying is hypothetical ... if that woman is more pious and so on. Well go find a christian woman for me first please who is a true believer of christianity, and then who would marry a muslim man, only to have her kids raised muslim too.

and are we forgetting that women whose husbands died in war ... (talking about the non-muslims) ... and then they were taken into shelter by the muslims ... and the muslim men were asked to marry those women ... and those women had no choice but ..

Re: Muslim and Non Muslim

why cant a muslim man/woman marry a non muslim man/woman and no body gets converted?
make religion a personal thing and both parties follow their own religion and respect their significant other's religion.
My mom and dad are from different religion and the thought of converting never came in their mind. now when i ask them about it then they laugh and say that it is a non issue. same with my sister's inter religion marrige.
infact there are thousands of such cases in India. marry who you like and no body gets converted. i guess in Pakistan people are more sensitive about it.

Mashallah. Very good example.

In general this is very true.

The only exception is for a small group of people who go to church/temple/mosque at least once a week (if not more).

In that kind of family environment, it is better to "combine and select one church" until the kids are small.

Do notice the word "combine" and not "convert".

Marriage is a holy union for many, and harmonizing and uniting their church/temple/mosque will increase harmony in the home as well. Thus helping in improving the communication that adds to mutual love and respect.

For the Big-3 religions, there is no concept of "conversion" anyways. It is just the same Allah, the same paghambers and rasools.

However if someone studies with reverence other religions like Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism etc. he/she will find the same rasools being sent by the same Allah swt.

So really it is the matter of husband or wife deciding to join his/her spouse's church/temple/mosque.

All in love in harmony, with no force or coercion. Because Islam forbids forced conversions (however many Islamists do not follow this important edict).

Mad scientist hasnt compared anyone with Isam. Atleast be decent enough to put forward and respond in a logical way rather tha rhetorics.

Re: Muslim and Non Muslim

^ Well she is right in the argument that when talking about issues like marriage ... we talk about how that is how it was done back then. but on the other hand, we do believe that Quran is a timeless book, it can never fail to enlighten us, or teach us.
it confuses me sometimes too. well many times.
either our reasoning or argumentation is incorrect, that that is how it was done in that culture of 1400 years ago .. or ... well .. yeah ... the reasoning is wrong ... and i never accept it. it has to be more logical than that.

Re: Muslim and Non Muslim

^ please make more sense than that. really.

i love it when muslims talk all sarcastic ... especially the ones who are all about look-i-am-a-mulsim!! and to top that ... sarcastic replies to non-sarcastic posts!

wasn't directly to u, if u did pick up my sarcasm, u would know who it was directed to :p read more of religion forum ull know ;)

anyways, u will have to agree with our little minds we cannot comprehend everything really..

We are talking about Maddie's post, in his arguments he did not compare anything. Instead of responding to maddie, she comes up with something completely different.

Re: Muslim and Non Muslim

sorry :blush:

cricketplaya … tou mujhay kyun quote kya tha :frowning:

but who is maddie? :konfused: