Mushie not in election race?

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: Mushie not in election race?

It outrageous that Musharraf was not even let to contest election, as there is no conviction against him neither any reason that could bar him from contesting election, but then, does Pakistan deserves someone who is not corrupt?

On the other hand, I can understand the fear politicians and civilian authorities are feeling with Musharraf in politics, as, if he would get in election politics and win, then corrupt politicians, corrupt judiciary and corrupt bureaucracy would suffer badly. Most likely, they may have realised that Musharraf is popular enough to shake their rule of corruption, so the best way to stop him is to stop him contesting election.

Anyhow, as far as article 6 of constitution regarding high treason is concerned: One cannot use that article on Musharraf alone, as article 6 has 2 clauses and it says:

**Pakistan constitution clause 6:

6: High treason:**
(1) Any person who abrogates or subverts or suspends or holds in abeyance, or attempts or conspires to abrogate or subvert or suspend or hold in abeyance, the Constitution by use of force or show of force or by any other unconstitutional means shall be guilty of high treason.]
(2) Any person aiding or abetting [SUP]2[/SUP][or collaborating] the acts mentioned in clause (1) shall likewise be guilty of high treason.

So, if someone is charged of high treason on clause 6 (1) then all who fall in clause 6 (2) would be charged of high treason too, as constitution connects both of them ... and considers both of them in same way (likewise) guilty of high treason (no difference).

Once clause 6 (2) is implemented than that would include judges who validated martial law, parliament who later gave cover by validating martial law, all those who supported martial law by any of their action, all those who asked (or invited) army chief to impose martial law, all who gave political backing to martial law, all who showed happiness after martial law is imposed … and so on, as they all aided or abetted the act of army chief imposing martial law.

Plus, such clause would be applied to all who are alive, and that includes aiders, betters and collaborators of all past martial law (including Zia martial law).

Thus, if that would happen then all cabinet of Zia and Musharraf (including Nawaz Shareef as abetters), all parliamentarians who validated Zia and Musharraf martial law (as aiders), all cabinet of Zia and Musharraf (aiders), all judges that validated Zia and Musharraf martial law (including Ch Iftikhar as abetters), all who distributed sweets and show happiness when martial law was imposed (as supporters) … and so on.

Some may ask that since it is civilian government that would move article 6, why civilian government would move article 6 (2) too, as, if they would do that than most in civilian government would become guilty of high treason and judges too, plus many more.

Well, answer is simple, that is, if civilian government would decide to punish 'army chief' imposing martial law and letting civilians aiding, abetting, collaborating and supporting martial law to escape punishment … than it would be like punishing army and leaving civilians who are likewise guilty (according to constitution) … that Pakistan army would never tolerate … as that would be not only challenging Pakistan army directly but discriminatory victimising army …** and that can bring another martial law straight away that would be bloody (not soft martial law that Pakistan always got).**

In such bloody martial law, it is possible that army may even start executing indiscriminately many civilian politicians and judges playing part in such victimisation and may even abrogate constitution completely, imposing permanent martial law as was in Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Libya, and so on.

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Re: Mushie not in election race?

This is not Pakistan of the past .
You can not think of a martial law now
There will be no Pakistan after another martial law
ONLY Rawalpindi Gujranwala Lahore ,Sahiwal and Faisalabad divisions
What name you will like ?

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Re: Mushie not in election race?

Good analysis Saleem. It is not going to be that easy in other cases like BB and Bugty murder cases also. I am anxious to see how they would proceed against him. Its funny how every politician is making Bugti look like an angel. A man who took arms to challenge the writ of the govt. and had been doing so for quite sometime. He had been paid hefty amount of money by President Ghulam Ishaq Khan as ransom money to keep calm in his region. The guy was convicted murderer in his young age.

I am ok with, if SC prosecutes everyone across the board in this whether its politicians or military men. But taking the road of selective justice by punishing Mushy only would be playing with fire and would badly tarnish the image of superior court. If you want to do justice, do it blindly/indiscriminately or stay the f**k away.

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Re: Mushie not in election race?

Thanks. Well, it is not just selective justice, if government would try to punish Mushy than it would be asking for not soft martial law but bloody martial law (or military revolt), as that would not be just punishing Musharraf, but punishing ‘Army Chief’ and letting those ‘equally guilty of same crime (high treason according to constitution)’ from civil society untouched.

On the other hand, if punishing all blindly and indiscriminately happens than most Judges of Present Supreme Court including Iftikhar, most renowned journalists and politicians, most high-up bureaucrats … and many more would be guilty of high treason too (as they all one way or another … aided, abetted, collaborated, supported and enjoyed martial law).

Just imagine:

Iftikhar chaudhary guilty of high treason: After martial law ‘Iftikhar Chaudhari’ accepted military rule to stay Chief justice of Baluchistan high court (took first oath under PCO of Musharraf), else he would not have stayed Chief Justice of Baluchistan High Court.

It was because of martial law ‘Iftikhar Chaudhari’ got chance to become judge of Supreme Court (took second oath under PCO of Musharraf), else he would never have become Supreme Court judge.

It was because of martial law ‘Iftikhar Chaudhari’ got chance to become Chief justice of Surpeme Court (took third oath under PCO of Musharraf), else he would not have been Chief Justice of Supreme Court.

[So, Iftikhar Chaudhary took 3 PCO oaths ... a hat-trick of PCO oath]

As Supreme Court judge, it was iftikhar Chaudhary and other judges who gave power to Musharraf that he rule Pakistan legally (justifying martial law), and can even change constitution as he likes. All such action comes as ‘aiding and abetting’ Martial law.

So, if Musharraf would be declared guilty of imposing martial law, then how come the one who benefitted most because of that martial law should be left alone?

Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto guilty of high treason: Bhutto aided and abetted Ayub Khan, so he is guilty of high treason. On the other hand, if Bhutto had not aided and abetted Ayub Khan than there would have been no Bhutto, no PPP, no Jiyalas … nor BB or Zardari.

Nawaz Shareef guilty of high treason: Nawaz aided and abetted Zia-ul-Haq. So he is guilty of high treason (well, he is guilty of many high treasons). On the other hand, if Nawaz had not ‘aided and abetted’ Zia-ul-Haq than no one would have known Nawaz, PMLN, Shahbaz and army of ‘Shareef’ thugs.

Actually, same can be said about many others (politicians, judges, bureaucrats, etc) who are likewise (word from constitution) guilty of high treason because they ‘aided and abetted’ Ayub, Yahya, Zia and Musharraf martial law and are still alive.

Actually, all parliamentarians who validated Zia and Musharraf martial law in parliament by amending constitution (8[SUP]th[/SUP] amendment and 17[SUP]th[/SUP] amendment) are also guilty of high treason, as they ‘aided and abetted’ martial law.

So … if politicians (who worked with dictators in parliament and outside), judges (if they did not resigned they aided and abetted martial law), bureaucrats (if they did not resigned they aided and abetted martial law), journalists (who wrote good about dictator aiding and abetting martial law and military ruler), etc … are all guilty of ‘high treason’ and should be treated likewise (as constitution says) and should be punished likewise.

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Re: Mushie not in election race?

You are right, time has changed. Present Pakistan is much different than past. In past we had popular leaders like Bhutto, Mujeeb, Fatima-Jinnah, etc … who had respect, charisma and mass public supports (still no one came out for them against military dictator ) … and today we have unpopular thugs like Nawaz and Zardari, who have no respect, charisma or public support, rather many Pakistanis hate them.

In past ‘Martial Law’ used to come as surprise (still no one opposed ‘Martial law’). Today, people are hoping and waiting for ‘Martial Law’ to come and stay for years, until Pakistan becomes educated and economically strong. Thus, present time is best time for army to declare indefinite martial law and rewrite constitution.

Need of the time is that after imposing Martial law, army should start execution (hanging) all corrupt politicians, judges, bureaucrats, and confiscate their wealth. Army should also start hanging all religious goons creating fitna in the country. Further, they should follow policy of no-nonsense when dealing with journalists and other opposition. If army would do that then they would become hero for most Pakistanis.

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Re: Mushie not in election race?

LMAO.... let me know the name of a single corrupt politician, judge or bureaucrat who was convicted of corruption during last decade of army rule? Rather we had the lovely NRO. And, btw, the religious goons would not be thriving so much without overt or covert support from army anyways.

Saleem bhai, aisey joke to na kiya karain!

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Re: Mushie not in election race?

Bha Kakaballi: Pakistani voters hope that they would get ‘Roti, kapra aur Makan’ from politicians, but politicians once elected loot and plunder the country, and give their voters ’bhook, faaqa, aflaas, bai-izzati, bay-rozgari, beemari, bechargi, kafan aur Qabar’ . Still, all their life these delusion Pakistani voters hope to get ‘Roti, Kapra aur Makan’ next time from 'same thug who con them in past'.

So, if I am hoping that next military dictator (at least not same person but another person) would bring khooni-military rue and would take revenge from corrupt ‘politicians, judges, bureaucrats and other thugs’ then what is my fault? :)

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Re: Mushie not in election race?

BBC News - Arrest warrant issued for Pakistan’s Pervez Musharraf

A court in Pakistan has ordered the arrest of Pakistan’s former military ruler Pervez Musharraf over the house arrest of judges in March 2007.

Mr Musharraf was present at the Islamabad High Court when the judges issued the order. He had been seeking bail in the case.

Police present at the court did not arrest him when the order was made.

The retired general immediately left the court and drove away escorted by his security detail.

The BBC’s M Ilyas Khan in Islamabad says that when judges issue arrest warrants in court, the suspect is normally handcuffed within the court premises.

Mr Musharraf can file an appeal against this court order in Pakistan’s Supreme Court.

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Re: Mushie not in election race?

The fault is that you consider military top brass as farishtay, which they are not. They come from same society as other Pakistanis and prone to same faults that we have as a nation.

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Re: Mushie not in election race?

Most crooks in Pakistan don't face justice. I have no doubt that Mushy will get away too, but the question is how much of humiliation he will face? Personally, I think it would be great if they lock him up, but it seems unlikely that it will happen.

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Re: Mushie not in election race?

I am not hoping that a farishta type military top brass take over … I am waiting for one who is Shaitan in every respect with typical Pakistani mentality of loving absolute power and revenge with guns that fire bullets.:)

Just imagine, if Musharraf was like Zia, Bhutto, BeNazir, Zardari or Nawaz what he could have done?

1: Musharraf would not have let control on army go.
2: Would have rewritten constitution to suit him.
3: Would never have held election what he did in 2002.
4: Would never have resigned from his post.
5: Would never have shown trust on politician, bureaucrat, judiciary, or even army generals.
6: Would have only promoted Loyal at high places in armed forces, bureaucracy, judiciary, and law enforcement agencies, so that they stay loyal to him at any cost.
7: Would have persecuted any opposition to his rule more harshly than Zia persecuted people in MRD movement and Bhutto persecuted anyone oppose to him.
8: Would have never given complete freedom to Media.

9: Would have hang Nawaz and victimise all from his family.
10: Would have got Iftikhar killed.
11: Would have made Zardari die in prison (he was already in prison when Musharraf took over).
12: Would have put more cases on BB and would have built a prison cell waiting for her if she returns.
13: Would have hanged all political corrupts considering them threat for himself.
14: Would have hanged all in judiciary and bureaucracy whom he thought could have harmed him in any way.
15: Would have not only taken military action on religious thugs, their supports, sympathisers, helpers, and financiers, more vigorously (as they attacked Musharraf so it would have been sweet revenge), but would have asked Americans to join in to.
16: Would have done lot of corruption so that he become riches person in Pakistan, then start throwing bones to people and treat them as dogs (what Nawaz and Zardari do).

And so on …

And believe me, Pakistani people are so peace loving (begherat) that none would have come out on road as most love to get ‘F’ lying down waiting for divine intervention. They showed their character numerous times to mention … some are:

A: Ayub treatment he gave to Fatima Jinnah and anyone supporting her.
B: Zia’s hanging of Bhutto when not a single Zombie Jiyala came out in protest.
C: Musharraf’s kicking the Ass of Thug Nawaz and people loving that.
D: Not a single supporter of Thug Nawaz showed up at airport when he came and got deported (as recently as Sept 2007).

And so on … shows Pakistani mentality of selfishness, corruption, fear and hinjra-pan when supporting their leader (however corrupt and thug that leader may be).

You might say that how about monkeys who started 'bhangra on road' in support of their Chief. Well, they managed to do that because Musharraf was out of uniform and also did not dealt with them harshly even if he could have done so. Fact is that, if army or government wanted to, monkeys would not have even come out.

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Re: Mushie not in election race?

^
Contact taliban.... they have a similar thought process as yours. Absolute power, revenge without due process, eliminating anyone who opposes you and think we are the only intelligent beings on the planet.

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Re: Mushie not in election race?

@ Sa1eem: The small point of that grand write up is that Musharraf was basically a lesser evil. Nothing more and nothing less. I'm not sure how this is something one must celebrate.

Its funny how you conveniently missed out an all important point that if he was as saintly as you think he is he "would have avoided the NRO". Make that your first point and it might add some credibility in your mourning.

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Re: Mushie not in election race?

Btw, he would've easily got CJ killed and lawyers bulldozed if it wasn't for the free media and the enormous amount of international attention which the lawyers movement had gathered. I'm sure he proably views liberating the media as his biggest mistake. Nonetheless, in my eyes, that's probably the only good thing he's done for Pakistan along with appointing Kiyani as the COAS.

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Re: Mushie not in election race?

No, that is not just mentality of Taliban but it is mentality of most Pakistanis who has some power to victimise their opponents or victimise anyone they think is threat. Ask Nawaz and Zardari, think of Zia, Ayub, Yahya, dead Mrs Zardari or her dad Bhutto ... and you will get your answer.

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Re: Mushie not in election race?

You are right. Reconciliation ... what Reconciliation? That should never be in dictionary of Pakistanis. :)

As for taking foreign pressure, that most military rulers (unless he is as dumb as Musharraf) do not take (Zia hanged Bhutto even when there was huge foreign pressure and Yahya did not handed over power to Mujeeb regardless of foreign pressure).

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Re: Mushie not in election race?

and you approve of this mentality and want it to demonstrate itself in the extreme?

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Re: Mushie not in election race?

To know my mentality, instead of asking, you can read my posts.

If I had extremist mentality then I would have been supporting Taliban, Nawaz, Bhutto, Zia, or BeNazir … as all had/have extremist mentality full of revenge and victimisation of their opponent.

As for Musharraf, he did not took revenge by hanging Nawaz, he released Zardari from prison, reinstated Iftikhar after SC illegal ruling of stopping SJC from investigating Iftikhar, even tried to forgive BeNazir Bhutto’s past corruption and did not victimised Lawyers who were dancing like monkey on road in support of their corrupt Chief, and so on.

So, you can see that 'who supports who' and then talk who approves mentality of extremism and victimisation.

On the other hand, I am totally against corrupt politicians, corrupt judges, corrupt police and corrupt bureaucrats, people who take bribes, abuse power, victimise poor, loot and plunder the country.

I especially hate economical corrupts, as it is these thugs who have destroyed Pakistan and strangled Pakistan economic growth and development. It is due to these thugs, Pakistan is still an under-developed and poor country. When world is become affluent and well served day by day, due to economical corrupts Pakistan could not provide even basic needs to average Pakistanis, where many poor go hungry and get no basic amenities, education, or health care.

For me, I would like to see ‘corrupt kanjars’ hanged and their wealth confiscated … and that is not extremism, but it is asking for justice for Pakistan and Pakistanis … it is just like death penalty in Islam for people doing Fitna, that is not extremism but justice for humanity.

[Actually, financial corruption of people in government is also Fitna, rather the biggest fitna a country can have, worse than murder, as it causes numerous death, miseries, break-up of society, and much more … so those involved in corruption should get death as punishment]

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Re: Mushie not in election race?

None of the military dictators in Pakistan ever did that. According to you, even Mush was all too mushy with these ‘corrupt kanjars’.

Asking military to do this is very naive. They are part of the ‘system’ now. It is more like…
Mir kya sada hain, bimar huway jis kay sabab, Usi attar kay londay sey dawa latay hain

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Re: Mushie not in election race?

^^^
You are right that none of the past military men in Pakistan persecuted ‘corrupt Kanjars’ or ‘retarded Munafiqs’ what they deserve. Rather one past dictator was himself ‘retarded Munafiq’, and to fulfil his own sectarian inclination, instead of bringing peace, unity and tolerance, brought terrorism, disharmony, and intolerance in Pakistan.

But then, even when military men have their faults, I still have hope from them, and no hope from politicians as democracy has become business in Pakistan and one cannot expect that businessmen would think of their customers before profit (where their profit means corruption, nepotism and misuse of power).

Actually, these politicians do not even represent Pakistan; rather they represent bigotry, bradari, tribalism, feudalism, money, influences, and nepotism … or religious exploitation by creating discord in Pakistani society. Worse is that there is no law that could stop both type of political Kanjars, as following Pakistani culture, Pakistani judiciary, police and bureaucracy are prostitute in their hand whom these politicians pay in form of job security, permission of corruption, allowed nepotism, desired postings, promotions, bones (bribes), etc … and punish them by giving them job insecurity, special duty (no postings), persecution for corruption (selective persecution, as most in government services are corrupt dogs anyhow), hold on promotions, undesirable postings, and so on.