Musharraf

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
1

I don’t get why everyone is against him now.

-Drone attacks: Um, it was either drones or having Pakistan be bombed, because that’s what the US government had told him. Plus, many of us will admit that the drones had their benefits, now that we will be seeing more death on both sides and of civilians with the “operation” that the army is launching now in N. Waziristan.

-Lal masjid: Really people? There were terrorists USING A MOSQUE as a hostage site, as a weapons arsenal and a way to force their rigid ideas on people. I think he was fully justified in launching the army on Lal Masjid, esp since they were holding foreign nationals hostage there. What did you expect him to do? Just let people get killed in a masjid? Send a message to the rest of Pakistan that this sort of interpretation of Islam will be tolerated, cuz its NOT ISLAM. If anything, upholding the true message of Islam and destroying anyone who bends it out of shape like this humiliating the rest of the ummah, is only something a true muslim would do. I sincerely believe his heart was right in going after the Lal Masjid goons.

-Referendum, etc. Ok, so you’re whining about him blocking corrupt “democratic” rulers, the same ones who have been raping the country for years of finances and aid, by setting up a sham election. I say go for it. Anything that keeps Nawaz and Bhutto and Zardari’s out of the government, I say go for it. Pakistan is a country that doesn’t even deserve elections, most of the people are ignorant, don’t know how to vote, and can be bought for pennies. Pakistan is a country that really needs a king. A nice king that can deliver some serious justice.

-He tried to take out Nawaz because if you recall Nawaz tried to kill him on a plane. Um, so … if Musharraf was horrible, don’t you think Nawaz would have been hung by now for attempted murder? This mush guy has some serious soft spots that he forgave that SOB. I’d have hung Nawaz. Do you people not see that Musharraf’s case and arrest and all is just Nawaz getting back at him?

Keep playing into the politics of these goons, Pakistan, keep playing into the politics. :rolleyes:

The only disappointment I had was how he handled the case of the woman that was gang raped, but I honestly think he was just trying not to make an international embarassment out of Pakistan, even though that move was a pretty awful move. That’s the ONLY thing I would hold against him.

The rest of it, I just don’t get it. He was a progressive leader, that had the support of all the progressive people, and even they have no turned against him.

Makes me wonder who Nawaz is paying, and for how much, to spread nastiness against this man.

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Re: Musharraf

Oh but the reasons are only too many to list. :(

-Performing a coup with the promise to flush the politics of lowly characters, then becoming power thirsty shortly thereafter.
-Rinse, and reuse of the same shady characters that were to be flushed to form and legitimize rule even if by sham democracy and a rubber stamp parliament.
-NRO: Granting a clean bill of health, and complete pardon for all past corruption and crimes to the very people that were ruling Pakistan before him. And they returned to do the same after him.
-Cowering at the non-existent threat of "bomb to stone ages". Only a fool would threaten a nuclear nation with such jargon, and only a bigger fool would fall for it, and surrender all notions of sovereignty. A statesman, and a leader of high caliber would have cooperated in ways that keep own interests first, not the other way around.

And of all these major disappointments, the only one that hurt is how he handled one domestic case?

The progressive people perhaps saw him for a shell that he really was, and went back to their old demigods because to them perhaps the devils they knew were better than the devil they decided to trust.

As for public that keeps supporting the same old faces, yes that is truly the to be disappointed about and to ponder over. But losing hope is not a thing we do, so lets hope that either politicians become sincere for the sake of whatever motivates them, or that public gets tired of them and makes radicals changes and choices in the future elections.

Addition: So many people I know saw him as the person that might, just might put the country's political landscape on right-footing after the 1999 coup because he was seen as having excelled from being from the middle-class. Now those same people display disappointment because he had a chance to win people's hearts. Just goes to show you that not everyone even from among working class may be the best solution for Pakistan as a whole. Him wanting to lead MQM makes total sense, he'd fit right in with upper echelon there because the mindsets correlate. I could be wrong of course.

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Re: Musharraf

He was a jackass.

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Re: Musharraf

The traitor , Responsible for shameful and painful Kargal affair , A killer , pushed Pakistan into war of terror , destroyed institution , more polluted the society , Corrupt and chief patron of corrupts and Mafias . Ayash , Badmaash , Ghaleez ghatia

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Re: Musharraf

I do not like Musharraf for the way he handled WoT, Lal Masjid and Balochistan.

Otherwise under his watch the economy was going well, lots of jobs were created. The local government system was initiated which was scrapped by the following democratic government (a shame) and mega projects. Give him credit where due.

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Re: Musharraf

and he gave your leaders a cleat chit through NRO.

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Re: Musharraf

Just for elaboration purposes, can u kindly name all PPP heads of whoms quality and deeds u just discribed ????

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Re: Musharraf

vocabulary main izafe ke liye shukria :hat:

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Re: Musharraf

Main Koi jhoot bolia
Main koi kufr tolia
Koi na Bhai koi na

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Re: Musharraf

[Quote=PyariCgudia]
k, so you’re whining about him blocking corrupt “democratic” rulers, the same ones who have been raping the country for years of finances and aid, by setting up a sham election. I say go for it. Anything that keeps Nawaz and Bhutto and Zardari’s out of the government, I say go for it.** Pakistan is a country that doesn’t even deserve elections,** most of the people are ignorant, don’t know how to vote, and can be bought for pennies. Pakistan is a country that really needs a king. A nice king that can deliver some serious justice.

He tried to take out Nawaz because if you recall Nawaz tried to kill him on a plane. Um, so … if Musharraf was horrible, don’t you think Nawaz would have been hung by now for attempted murder? This mush guy has some serious soft spots that he forgave that SOB. I’d have hung Nawaz. Do you people not see that Musharraf’s case and arrest and all is just Nawaz getting back at him?

[/Quote]

:hehe:

Thanks to **Abaya wale Uncle **

http://cache.pakistantoday.com.pk/2014/01/musharraf-abdullah.jpg

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Re: Musharraf

Saudi government has created more of a mess in this world than even most western governments. Anything so that those potholes can hold their throne.

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Re: Musharraf

I largely agree with PCG.

He did a lot for the country's economy and infrastructure. I would say that he did a lot more for the country than the so-called democratic governments. NS is all gimmicks and show-off. Things that benefit the average joe were all done during his time (ambulance service, police emergency number, local gov't, paved roads even to small villages, gas supply to even villages, etc. etc.)

Not many people know this but there were hospital projects initiated by Pervaiz Ilahi and significant work was already done but NS and showbaz sharif abandoned them as soon as they got into punjab gov't. There was a state of the art cardiology complex built near wazirabad which would have provided service to millions who have to go to Islamabad or Lahore right now. The building is almost complete but has been abandoned. Imagine the amount of money that has been wasted because of sharif brothers' ego. I heard a similar story about projects in Lahore that were well underway but were abandoned because pervaiz ilahi might get the credit.

His decision to side with the americans was the smart thing to do because our refusal would not have made much difference to the americans but would have isolated us. Our airspace was going to be used anyway and we wouldn't have been able to do jack about it. Open another thread and we can discuss the pros and cons of this decision.

The only thing I disagree with is that Pakistan doesn't deserve democracy. It's easy enough to say that sitting in established democracies of the west. However, one has to remember that england didn't become a democracy overnight. It was a long messy struggle and we deserve a chance to go through a struggle of our own.

This can't happen if the army keeps intervening every 10 years. It needs a few cycles before the system starts straightening out. In this context, I think IK's current demand for fair elections is crucial. If people are allowed to choose their leaders in free and fair elections and boot them out if they don't perform, the politicians will start performing. Army can't straighten the system out. The most it can do is to maintain the status quo.

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Re: Musharraf

Strictly your opinion, most people would not agree he did anything significant for the economy and infrastructure. In 2007, which was before he left was one of the worst years we had, and probably the worst ever in terms of power crisis (by the way how many MW did he add in ten years?) We are quick to bring in and criticize democratic Governments before him which had 1-2 years of rocky interrupted short stints to power without realizing Musharraf (like his predecessor Zia) had almost a decade long tenure, with the first few years with somewhat of a chance to bring about some revolutionary changes. What does he do instead? He brings in crooks like the Chaudhry brothers along with Altaf Hussain (need I say anything about him) and forms an alliance with some hand picked politicians. If the democratic Governments before him were so bad, then these crooks were very much part of them. Transparency International even termed his regime as being more corrupt than any others in the 90s. As for your emphasis on free and fair elections, can you please tell me if the 2002 elections or even that referendum he held (leave aside its constitutional legitimacy aside for now) was free and fair?

I do however agree with you on one point, we cannot expect democracy to work if every 10 years we have a coup. It will evolve and sustain itself for the better if we let it run uninterrupted. It is very important that we never seen another Zia or Musharraf step in again, ever.

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The main problem I see with musharraf is that he dealt with every issue as an army man than as a diplomat. He took some bold steps, and in the process, he definitely stepped on some toes.

But those who condemn him should think that if Musharraf never happened and Pakistan had the same fake democracy and corrupt rulers from 1999 till 2008, then Pakistan would be even more buried in hell than it is right now. Musharraf did a lot of damage control by taking over, though he made some other mistakes.

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Re: Musharraf

I would actually want to agree with you. But what we know about democracy is that it always starts from reverse before coming into forward gear. You need more democracy to cure democracy. Had Musharraf not happened, we might have crossed that bad phase you mentioned by now and would have been in a better take-off position.

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Re: Musharraf

That was not clean chit but invitation to BB to come back to Pakistan and when she came back, he got her killed. Otherwise MQM was the major beneficiary of NRO not PPP. In fact PPP was major loser as it lost its leader and Pakistan lost another good politician who believed in Pakistan not Punjabistan.

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Re: Musharraf

I used to Like Musharaf. No doubt, he was a Nationalist. But Lal Masjid Operation Pushed Pakistan in this situation. Before operation pakistan was Peacful but after his bruital action against students of lal Masjid, tribal War Loards got against Him, and then we lauched operations against our own People.. All this Mess is due to That Lal Masjid Operation. He should have used other methods rather than army operation

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Re: Musharraf

When I look at his era, I look at the economy and PKR value. If you look at PK rupees vs US dollar chart of last 36 years, his era stood out remarkably. Rupee kept its value constant during his time. He must be doing something right. We need to give him credit for that. And please observe the chart as soon as luteray came back in the name of democracy.

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Re: Musharraf

NRO didn't get BB killed.

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Re: Musharraf

you got to be kidding me bro.