Musharraf victim of subterfuge or Opportunist?

President Musharraf may have been the victim of subterfuge when he launched his ill-concieved plan to solve the Arab-Israeli conflict. When he visited Saudi Arabia and UAE he was accorded the highest honors then something happned which exposed Musharraf as a pawn in the Bush enclave. He shares some blame since it was his over-reach and over meglomania that led hin on this path.

But that is not just the only purpose of this thread. Retd General Hameed Gul, former boss of ISI and humble servant of American interests has made some very inetresting remarks about Musharraf. Very conviniently, Hameed Gul has blamed Musharraf for this fiasco and absolved the Saudis who happen to be the primary force behind this move. One reason for this can be explained by the fact that Hameed Gul has been the beneficiary of Saudi benevolence in the form of financial assistance that goes in the millions of dollars.

Head of ISI, working for the Americans and now for the Saudis this person is responsible for manipulating elections, setting up terrorist units across Pakistan, formenting sectarian hatred, creating the anti0shia policy and continues to support the Taliban agenda. Monsters like Hameed Gul have become self-styled leaders but are nothing more than cheap lotas who will sell their souls to the highest bidder.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/IC08Df01.html

Musharraf: From favorite to fall guy
By Syed Saleem Shahzad

KARACHI - Iranian President Mahmud Ahmadinejad’s eight-hour trip to Saudi Arabia last weekend to meet with King Abdullah dealt a body blow to US efforts to drive a wedge between the Persians and the Arabs. Plans to create a Sunni bloc to isolate and oppose an Iran-dominated Shi’ite “crescent” have also been derailed.

And Pakistani President General Pervez Musharraf has come out of the whole episode with egg on his face.

Lieutenant-General Hamid Gul, a former head of Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence who maintains close ties with Riyadh and Tehran, told Asia Times Online that he believes Musharraf’s meddling in Middle Eastern affairs has further isolated the general.

Apart from anything else, Ahmadinejad’s visit rattled some nerves in Jerusalem. Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni commented, “Ahmadinejad is a leader who denies the Holocaust, who tells the Jews to go back to Europe, talks of a vision of wiping Israel off the map. He should not be accepted as a member of the international community. Now he is being received in Saudi Arabia.”

Over the past few months, Pakistan, a founder member of the United States’ axis against terrorism formed after September 11, 2001, has emerged as a new proxy for Washington on the world stage.

Islamabad recently hosted a meeting of the foreign ministers of six other members of the Organization of Islamic Conference (OIC) - Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, Turkey, Malaysia and Indonesia - Sunni Muslim countries subscribing to what Musharraf calls “enlightened moderation”. This came after Musharraf had visited the pro-American states of the Persian Gulf and the Middle East.

The formation of this core group was a Saudi idea, which included the formation of a multinational Muslim peacekeeping force from OIC countries. But Pakistan’s spin on a resolution of the Palestinian issue was sensed by all, including Saudi Arabia, as a US ploy, and very quickly the dynamics of the game changed.

“The immense popularity of the Iranian president and Hezbollah’s Hasan Nasrullah among Arab youths was a matter of concern for Arab monarchs, but it does not mean that they will be part of any American designs in the Middle East,” Gul told Asia Times Online.

The entire Saudi plan of a peacekeeping force and resolution of the Israel-Palestine conflict was one perspective, but the Americans tried to hijack the plan through Egypt and Pakistan,” Gul said.

"The spirit of the Saudi Middle East peace plan was the three-point agenda of King Abdullah when he was crown prince in which he demanded that Israel withdraw to its position before 1967 [the Six Day War]. Jerusalem would be the capital of the Palestinian state. If these demands were accepted, Israel would be accepted as a secular democratic state in the Middle East. But the Israelis did not accept all these points.

"That was the crux of the whole matter, but the Americans meddled through Pakistan and Egypt and hijacked the whole agenda by turning it into [creating] a Sunni bloc and the recognition of Israel. The scheme was exposed because of General Pervez Musharraf’s haste when, during his Middle Eastern visit, he held a press conference in the UAE [United Arab Emirates] and said that Israel is a reality and it would be better for it to be recognized by the Islamic world. This exposed the designs for a ‘Sunni bloc’ to cater to the American agenda.

Arab leaders were stunned by Musharraf’s remarks, and King Abdullah went out of his way in a newspaper interview to embarrass Musharraf by saying that Palestine is purely ‘our’ issue and nobody needs to meddle in the area with their own agenda,” Gul said.

Gul maintains that the theory of creating a Shi’ite-Sunni divide was developed by US think-tanks such as the Rand Corporation and is a figment of their imagination.

“The Iranians never tried to export Shi’ite ideology. The reasons for sectarian tensions are different and purely local in each society. Imam [ayatollah Ruhollah] Khomeini was completely against the idea of concentrating on the Shi’ite school [of Islam] and once said that as Shi’ites were 6% of the whole Muslim ummah, if Iran tried to concentrate on Shi’ites only, it would not work. Al-Qaeda is also pan-Islamist, and pan-Islamists would never go for a narrow definition of their ideologies like Salafism,” said Gul.

“Any US aggression on Iran would be a litmus test of pan-Islamism, and jihadis all over the world would join hands with Iran against America. And Iran never back-stabbed al-Qaeda. Pakistan has caught over 700 al-Qaeda members and handed them over to the Americans. The Iranians did not hand anybody to the Americans. Osama bin Laden’s families crossed through Iran, Saiful Adil and other important al-Qaeda leaders crossed through Iran, and nobody was bothered, because Iran is a follower of pan-Islamicism and not of any narrow sectarian definition,” said Gul.

“The whole American scheme has been exposed, and Musharraf and [Egyptian President] Hosni Mubarak fell flat on their faces after the Iranian president was received with open arms in Riyadh. Now Musharraf should sort out his options, as he has already lost his Afghan card to the Americans and his significance is only to guard against Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal falling into anybody’s hand who would use it against Israel,” Gul said.

Re: Musharraf victim of subterfuge or Opportunist?

Hey if it is an arab issue then let them solve it man, I mean they have had a stellar record of success in solving the whole deal in the last 60 years right?

Can we also ask Saudis to follow thir own words of wisdom i.e. "nobody needs to meddle in the area with their own agenda" and stop their stealth support of uber conservative groups in Pakistan and elsewhere.

By the way the way i see it, Musharraf is among the few leaders in the muslim world that have talked about doing something different..the arab world is fairly set with status quo...so US interests or not, Musharraf's mesage and statements are not only sensible but also something that is sorely needed.

Re: Musharraf victim of subterfuge or Opportunist?

it makes it easier to see why the americans are saying that they have an army inside pakistan ready for action

Re: Musharraf victim of subterfuge or Opportunist?

Hameed Gul is not someone I’d trust to tell the truth. He wants publicity and he gets it.

This is what Gul said: **

** This is what King Abdullah said yesterday:

Do I need to further analyze this article? :slight_smile:

I think Abdullah’s remarks were not to embarrass Musharraf. And I don’t think that these ‘key Muslim states’ which gathered in Islamabad were there to isolate Iran.

Re: Musharraf victim of subterfuge or Opportunist?

Does Gul wants to be the next president? Why would anyone disparage the country’s leader in such sensitive times?

Re: Musharraf victim of subterfuge or Opportunist?

Sunni bloc, shia bloc or Lego blocs, Musharraf is right. Arab will sit on their rear ends for decades and whine about their "conflict" and do nothing about it.

Kudos to Musharraf for telling the truth.

Is Lt. General Gul trying to pave a plan for Musharraf's ouster?

Re: Musharraf victim of subterfuge or Opportunist?

Gul has his own plans. This guy is no angel.

Re: Musharraf victim of subterfuge or Opportunist?

^ he is not.

http://dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007\03\09\story_9-3-2007_pg1_5

Re: Musharraf victim of subterfuge or Opportunist?

anyways, pakistan must not support any hostile Us action against Iran.

Re: Musharraf victim of subterfuge or Opportunist?

What a bunch of bull, arabs shocked my Mushes remarks? Arab *******s have already signed and accpeted creation of Israeal this relaity needs to come out thanks to them arabs we have to see this day all over the middle east..

Re: Musharraf victim of subterfuge or Opportunist?

Gul needs to shut up at such times. He is the ones who complains about everything when the fact is that he would have done the same thing. Kudos to Musharraf for exposing the truth.

Re: Musharraf victim of subterfuge or Opportunist?

To all Guppies who posted, many thanks.

Mushy acted in good faith but became a victim of expediency and morons like Gul are trying to capitalize on his international embarrassment. Fact is Musharraf has goodwill that mediocre people like Hameed Gul can only dream of but never attain. Hameed Gul is morally and financially corrupt person that continues to survive and thrive in pakistan simply because of his military and saudi connections.

Some words for the Saudi betrayel. It was the Saudis who are responsible for stirring up the Sunni-Shia divide with regards to Iraq, when friends came to their assistance or were asked to help these guys have suddenly changed tack, or is this just another ruse, only time will tell. But, one thing is clear, Pakistan needs to protect its interests both domestically and internationally. If Saudis are good friends that always helped Pakistan in times of need, then the Iranians have been good neighbours and a peaceful neighbour is always a much better partner.

Re: Musharraf victim of subterfuge or Opportunist?

im not going to comment on the personalities of gul or musharraf.

likeminded nations = isolation of iran
isolation of iran = continuation of zion domination for another era

theres things to consider other then just ones loyalty to political leaders. i dont accept the notion that musharraf can do no wrong.

you also have to remember that musharrafs plan(falestine state setup) is SURE to fail. if he pushes it too much it may be pakistan that is in irans shoes!

Re: Musharraf victim of subterfuge or Opportunist?

Musharraf was marketing the Saudi plan presented in 2002 and plans are successful when both parties agree. In this case the other party in Israel, a reality that cannot be ignored. Mushy is unlikely to push this plan further, it was most probably something done at the behest of either the Saudis or the Americans who happen to share mutual interests. I agree with u, mushy should consider this as D.O.A., cut his losses and stick with the Sub-Continent.

Re: Musharraf victim of subterfuge or Opportunist?

^correct

israellis dont want peace, musharraf should get out of there if he wants to avoid the US sledgehammer. the saudi peace plan should be acceptable if a two state solution was really acceptable to all those concerned!!! but its not. no peace plan is acceptable to the other side. moderate plans are scuppered, extremist plans are battered.

heres uri avnery’s view from inside
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007%5C02%5C20%5Cstory_20-2-2007_pg3_4
When I was young, Jewish people in Palestine used to talk about our secret weapon: the Arab refusal. Every time somebody proposed some peace plan, we relied on the Arab side to say ‘no’. True, the Zionist leadership was against any compromise that would have frozen the existing situation and halted the momentum of the Zionist enterprise of expansion and settlement. But the Zionist leaders used to say ‘yes’ and ‘we extend our hand for peace’ — and rely on the Arabs to scuttle the proposal.

That was successful for a hundred years, until Yasser Arafat changed the rules, recognised Israel and signed the Oslo Accords, which stipulated that the negotiations for the final borders between Israel and Palestine must be concluded not later than 1999. To this very day, those negotiations have not even started.

After the death of Arafat, the refusal became more and more difficult. Arafat was always described as a terrorist, cheat and liar. But Mahmoud Abbas was accepted by everybody as an honest person, who truly wanted to achieve peace. Yet Ariel Sharon succeeded in avoiding any negotiations with him. The ‘Unilateral Separation’ served this end. President Bush supported him with both hands.

Re: Musharraf victim of subterfuge or Opportunist?

I was thinking it’s unfortunate that even educated and intelligent Muslims/Pakistanis have developed a sectional approach with regard to national and international politics. Our sects are bigger than our religion. Our biraderi/ethnicity is bigger than our nationality. Our interest is bigger than the interest of the whole community. It’s all too obvious. No wonder Muslims and Pakistanis are in such sorry condition. :hinna:

Re: Musharraf victim of subterfuge or Opportunist?

Finally i thought that Muslim Nations have find some common ground & have gathered in Islamabad to solve their issues...But hey i was wrong...It is again the old bickering & back biting....There is no solution for Major Islamic issues ,until these Muslim nations unite together...
West(Nato/US etc)would keep on palying with these nations like puppets until they unite ....
I know someone is playing it very dangerously in Mideast...to create a Sunni/Shi'ite divide...

Re: Musharraf victim of subterfuge or Opportunist?

Rather a victim of narcissism and delusions of grandeur...bit more then he could chew..."mujhay darr nai luaegataea"