Musharraf to West: 'We have our own brains'

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
21

Re: Musharraf to West: 'We have our own brains'

Yup they contributed alot to discussion boards,.. thats a service to nation. Pathetic..

22

Re: Musharraf to West: 'We have our own brains'

When someone sends money home it is to help their own. But when someone does a business or works there, isn't it for their personal gain as well? Both (sending money and working/business in country) are indirect ways of helping the country IMO.

23

Re: Musharraf to West: 'We have our own brains'

Poor guy Musharaf. He should retire and disappear silently.

He was good and I thing WAS a proud capable guy who did what had to be done to keep Pakistan alive after 9/11. But at least for the past 18 months he has overstayed his use and proressively lost perspective.

He is not selfish to hold on to power as some people allege. He has simply lost perspective, doesn't see a clean alternative and fully believes he is sacrificing his own self trying to gallantly land a plane in the face of certain disaster - that's how he and all others with magalomania (?) act.

This is so very sad. And the public still cannot wake up from religion induced fanatism and foolishness..

24

Re: Musharraf to West: 'We have our own brains'

All through this winter of Pakistan's discontent...

reminded me of Tennyson's poem we studied in High School.

It seems the Whole World has turned Cold against us...........

Is there No warmth to be found............even amoungst our own People?

A traveller, by the faithful hound,
Half-buried in the snow was found,
Still grasping in his hand of ice
That banner with the strange device,
Excelsior!

There in the twilight cold and gray,
Lifeless, but beautiful, he lay,
And from the sky, serene and far,
A voice fell, like a falling star,
Excelsior!

25

Re: Musharraf to West: 'We have our own brains'

I don't think pakistan is a banana republic. A b.r is where a dictator controls all resources, can do whathever his whim is and is totally unaccountable.

In pakistan, resources are not controlled by musharaf anymore. He can do a lot of things on his whim but not all that is his whim.

And he is accountable to someone - unfortunately the someone happens to be condi rice.

Neither banana nor republic.

26

Re: Musharraf to West: 'We have our own brains'

I think Musharraf continues to misread the situation by trying to launch a media offensive against his critics. He is only making fool of himself.

In a sense i agree with PCG.

Few years ago western media wanted him to look good, so all his interviews and statements were praised. Plus all the attention he got in international media. This led him to beleive that he is some sort of genius or an excellent statesman. Now he is facing their wrath and he thinks he can talk his way out of it. Not realizing that he is only making it worse for himself by statements like, we have our own standards of democracy or human rights and all that crap.

A better strategy for him at this time would have been to sit back and push the PM in spotlight. Try making poeple beleive that the interim government is doing all the things.

27

Re: Musharraf to West: 'We have our own brains'


Get a band-aid for your heart, cz it will keep getting broken again and again (or better still grow a thicker skin). This is a free world and people express opinions based on what they see happening. Don't you think it depresses the hell out of people seeing the mess being made in our country? Sorry, but no one has a monopoly over patriotism and whatever narrow definition folks keep concocting for it.

28

Re: Musharraf to West: 'We have our own brains'

Oh, I wanna know your thoughts about Waziristan

29

Re: Musharraf to West: ‘We have our own brains’

Well I never thought of you being the patriot anyways. I wonder why you cry over a match being lost by Pakistan then, whereas there are many other teams you could support, which have better economy and more political stability and win regularly. Why feel patriotic, when watching a cricket match only?!
Banana republics are no to be supported by any one. You might have lost all hopes for that country by now, but I still do have high hopes for Pakistan.

No wonder people like you tend to have this XBCD attitude. Na rahe yaha ke, na rahe waha ke. Your 3. Generation will not even know what Pakistan is. *Aap ne to Pakistan ko Banana Republic ka label de diya. Aap ki nasale is country ko proper gaaliya nikale gi. Mashallah, thats what we have learnt being brought up in foreign countries. In such situations I admire Indians about their patriotism. *:k:

30

Re: Musharraf to West: 'We have our own brains'

^ You are just wasting your time by being personal. No one survives online discussion forums for as many years as I have by taking any personal attacks posted by a Tom, Dick and Harry on an online posting seriously. So get over the high horse. If you want to debate issues, fine, bring it on. If you just want to indulge in crap-fest, sorry you will have to find someone else to waste their time with you. Cheers! :)

31

Re: Musharraf to West: 'We have our own brains'


Personally, after a lot of thought, I am beginning to appreciate the view point espoused by many (including Imran Khan) that, quite unnecessarily (though probably unavoidably) Pakistan has taken a problem which was a US (western world problem) and made it our own. People in Waziristan, including the so-called "foreigners" and "jihadi" had nothing but appreciation and love for Pakistan. Post 9/11, under tremendous US pressure (and thus perhaps unavoidably), Pakistan government turned these same mujahideen into its our own biggest foe. Was it necessary? I don't know. It could be that the pressure applied by the US was just unbearable. May be there was a way for Pakistan to support US aggression against Al-Qaida (alleged masterminds of 9/11 attacks) and still balance its own territorial sovereignity and best interests. Unfortnately we didn't.

Government of Pakistan in a sudden about-face declared all of these groups as unwelcome and terrorists, and thus these groups had a new foe - Pakistan. For them it was easy to attack inside Paksitan (as they are right there) and our security apparatus is no where close to the same standard as most other Western countries. Thus, Pakistan is a very easy target.

Lets make no mistake. These groups always had a militaristic agenda of Islamic domination. We may disagree with their vision and their policies but clearly their target was not Pakistan (prior to 9/11). As a result of Pakistan government's change in policies post 9/11, now we are enemy.

So that is why in my mind its a chicken and egg scenario. Question is are these terrorists targetting Pakistan right now because of our government's about-face to mark them as enemy; or is our government targetting them because they are terrorists?

This is just historic what-could-have-been discussion, though.

Unfortunately there is no way to turn back the clock, and there are no easy answers. Situation is a mess, and I don't see anyone from either side with any solutions. Personally, in my view, while military action may be one part of a multi-pronged approach to solution, but it really can't be the only action we take. Its just goint to make it worse.

Pakistan never had suicide attacks. Never had them at such high scale (50+ in one year). Some thing has changed. And what a lot of people say is that the problem is Musharraf and his policies of blindly towing US line and making US enemies as our enemies. Could Musharraf have done something different? May be. Unfortunately,we'll never know.

♥♥♥♥♥♥ All Married Couples ♥♥♥♥♥♥
32

Re: Musharraf to West: 'We have our own brains'

I dont like being personal...but you leave me no choice. You insult my country (and even your own) and I will be the least to sit back and watch.
What goes around comes around.
And regarding my post above. YOu had obviously no clue what to respond. Coz If you wouldnt have had to bother about my "attacks" at all you wouldnt have replied me in first place.
Further more you know me a long time now so better not pretend me being some Tom, Dick and Harry to distract other readers of the core issue in my post above and minimize the damage.

Fact is reality bites and the second fact is some people will never learn. Isn't It true, Pristine.

33

Re: Musharraf to West: 'We have our own brains'

^ Read my post above, and if you have an opinion to share, feel free. Of course the topic is complex and it is fine to disagree. Take some time to think and then share your pearls of wisdom. I want to see how much you actually understand the issues facing Pakistan.

34

Re: Musharraf to West: 'We have our own brains'

If I do agree with some one on his/hers post I will not respond (In most cases not!). Therefore you have my blessings.
But I dont see the direct link to Waziristan as yet. Where do you directly confront the reader with Waziristan conflict and Its solution. I failed to understand.
Mainly you speak of Musharrafs decision taken at pre 911 and post 911. The interpretation of yours reminds me of a very interesting post documentary I saw on ARTE (bbc documentary). But even this documentary ended the way your post did with stating something simliar to this: And what a lot of people say is that the problem is Musharraf and his policies of blindly towing US line and making US enemies as our enemies. Could Musharraf have done something different? May be. Unfortunately,we'll never know.

Why haven't you included some solutions regarding newest conflicts to areas like Baluchistan, Waziristan, Swat.....I care to differ between these areas.

35

Re: Musharraf to West: 'We have our own brains'

I already gave a suggested solution in a post right here on Gupshup some time ago. Search for 'sustained democracy is the only long term solution". No one is claiming a magic pill here, of course. Many people disagree on what path to follow. The bigger problem is not that the solutions are difficult, hard to forecast and in many cases are long term with no guarantees of success. Problem is that there appears to be a dearth of appreciation of the true problems facing the country, lack of sensible and rational debate; and a disproportionate desire to stick to power at all costs (even if it harms the country).

36

Re: Musharraf to West: 'We have our own brains'

I dunno, man. I would'nt go as far as to say that these jihadis had "love" for Pakistan. I agree that their agenda wasnt chaos in Pakistan but love for Pakistan? I seriously doubt that. why? It was one man's decision to make a u-turn on the policy supporting these guys not the entire country. Heck, majority of the country sympathized with jihadis and their cause. And now that these jihadis feel betrayed by the gov't that once supported them and have resorted to retaliation, who's facing their wrath? not the dictator who made the decision to go against them, but the people who sympathized with them. what kind of love they had for Pakistan that they're killing hundrads of thousands of innocent Pakistanis without any remorse just to retaliate against the govt? Clearly they never appreciated Pakistan let alone love it that's why it's so easy for them kill inncocent Pakistanis and plunge the country into chaos.

Now the question remains, what is the solution to this problem? diplomacy or force? war is never the answer and more than likely wont solve anything so then can any leader convince them through diplomacy that Pakistan is not their enemy and get it off their "agenda list"? I would think that that time has passed looking back at what happend in the last year alone between the jihadis and the armed forces. But if by some miracle it CAN be achieved then by all means start the dialogue process other wise Pakistan army has lots of guns and bombs and artillary and jawans and jihdadis have lots of financial resourses and countless fighters and are sitting right on our borders....keep the fight going.

37

Re: Musharraf to West: 'We have our own brains'

imran khan is hardly objective on the tribal issue. love they guy and his services to the country.

tribal land and its love for pakistan is shown by the gift of drugs and weapons, and through stealing cars and kidnapping boys in the homeland. list any other contribution to development of Pakistan i might have missed. take a trip to tribal land and see for yourself first hand. mixed with jihadi forces its a lethal combo. drug money buys a lot of bombs and weapons.

love or hate musharraf... these guys need a trip to reality just like their buddies got one in afghanistan. this problem isnt just tribal area though. parts of punjab and nwfp need to be cleaned up as well. any moron dreaming of fighting a global jihad by blowing up innocent folks needs to be put on this list and taken care of. No other solution unfortunately.

if democracy can bring about more urgency to fighting this menace then I am all for it. But, if that doesnt happen then i am afraid in a few years we will all be begging Gen. Kiani to take over again.

38

Re: Musharraf to West: 'We have our own brains'

I will have my search, when Ill have time for It...but for now what Is your suggestion or opinion for this countries. Right now, right here. Do we need democracy? IF, who is the best suitable for PM? Why then these expressions "Banana Republic", when you do feel for this country and know the exact game being played.

39

Re: Musharraf to West: 'We have our own brains'

I think Pak has a lot of "brains." But sadly, most of those "brains" are in house arrest or in prison under this dictator... :(

40

Re: Musharraf to West: 'We have our own brains'

^^ all the criminals have brain, 100% agreed.