*your outrage Fraudia seems a bit misdirected? *
My outrage is teh blatant lie that JI's student goons have never used violence. This guy has no shame to come and state blatant lies to the nation?
If he can lie about that, something which is still fresh in people's mind..how can he be trusted?
they want to bring islami nizaam? but they have no problem lying? or covering up the atrocities that their student group commited? islami Nizaam does not support lies and deciet.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Zakk:
In any case No MMA leader around presently is directly implicated in murder or student violence.
[/QUOTE]
What have the MMA and the religious parties as a whole done to bring an end to sect-based violence in Pakistan over the years? After all this sort of murder and violence is carried out in the name of religion, and these parties if they are genuine about promoting Islam would counter the misinterpretation of Islam that leads to such events, would they not?
Although sect-based killings have declined since 1999, mainly due to the Musharraf government's more effective law and order policies, the preceding years saw an ever rising number of such killings. What were the religious parties doing at the time, apart from preaching fiery sermons that encouraged extremists?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Malik73: *
Although sect-based killings have declined since 1999, mainly due to the Musharraf government's more effective law and order policies, the preceding years saw an ever rising number of such killings. What were the religious parties doing at the time, apart from preaching fiery sermons that encouraged extremists?
[/QUOTE]
I dont think they have declined, but then again, I do not blame the Goverment in any way on this.
Fraudia bhai, just because the JI started it does not mean anything. Name any political party, from the PML[N] to Musharrafs own hypothetical kings party, all of them have students ready to kill.
One of my cousins in Karachi joined Sir Syed Univ of Eng. and he was asked to make a choice between MQM haqiqi student wing of the PSA. I know what you mean, but its not the JI alone thats doing it.
P.S. alot of the ppl here criticizing the MMA are the one who were so happy after the election results... Little did they know the MMA would not be tamed by Musharraf like Shujaat and co. ;) All the better.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Spock: *
Fraudia bhai, just because the JI started it does not mean anything. Name any political party, from the PML[N] to Musharrafs own hypothetical kings party, all of them have students ready to kill.
[/QUOTE]
Spock you are missing my point.
the point is that this guy is openly lying about this.
so 2 thoughts
Even if they weren't crooked my concern would be what could they offer in terms of leading Pakistan into the future other than hoopla rallies and the like.
Xtreme
I agree. teh lack of any real agenda and plans for anything substansive on their side speaks volumes about their capability to make the country better.
I hate to use the old saying mullah ki dorr masjid takk, but in case of majority of MMA it holds true.
[QUOTE]
Little did they know the MMA would not be tamed by Musharraf like Shujaat and co. All the better.
[/QUOTE]
Very true Spock, I am sure if the MMA had agreed to support the LFO, things would be very different. But, unfortunately that's typical in Pakistan, those in power are angels, while those in opposition are either Anti Pakistani or corrupt murderers. The number of people in the present Sind and Federal cabinet who have been arrested or are still under investigation for every crime imaginable is enough to fill several pages. They are many bad apples in the MMA and leaders with bad policies but to generalise all of them or use the term Mollahs for all, and that they are all bad is wrong.
Jamaat
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
Spock
I think they lead the opposition right now because they finally put aside all their differences to unite and go with a single platform and using the war situation to their advantage all in order to get the power they so desparately seek.
[/QUOTE]
They got the seats in NA because of the backlash of 'American War On Terrorism'. In fact the more atrocities Bush committed, the more support these chaps got. But as pure hypocrites there is no one to beat them. Some of their actions are as under:-
1) They opposed the creation of Pakistan and even called Qaid-e-Azam as 'Kuffar-e-Azam'.
2). Prof. Ghaffoor Ahmad gave an interview where he qouted that according to the Quran and Sharia a woman cannot be the head of state or government. Yet the Mullahs are aligning themselves with the PPP.
3). When the Mujahideen were fighting in Kargil Qazi Hussain Ahmad was sitting in US for the entire duration.
4). Moulana Noorani is a 'peer' and fleecing ignorant people who pay him a lot of money.
5). They introduced Klashnikov culture in the Universities
6). If these chaps get excited by watching bill boards, then they should be put away in a mental assylum
tshombe
thank you for adding that here. they have become quite good at using religion card. as soon as u oppose them or say anythign against them their supporters you get labelled as anti-islam.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Zakk: *
I am sure if the MMA had agreed to support the LFO, things would be very different.
[/QUOTE]
Just a simple question. Do you support the MMA and it's policies, and if not which party is your party of choice? The avowedly secular ANP is it not? :)
Fraudia bhai, every party has a few bad elements. Like Zakk said, that person does not constitute the entire MMA. There are some very capable and senior politicians in that party. Take the ruling party for instance, arent they the biggest liars and chamchas in our political history?
Another thing, some guppies should avoid asking personal questions, since they then use it to make generalizations. For instance, I once wrote about the leadership skills of Benazir Bhutto, and Mr. PT thinks that I am a PPP jiyala 
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Spock: *
Fraudia bhai, every party has a few bad elements. Like Zakk said, that person does not constitute the entire MMA. There are some very capable and senior politicians in that party. Take the ruling party for instance, arent they the biggest liars and chamchas in our political history?
[/QUOTE]
yaaar, I know there must be some very sincere ppl in MMA. but their leadership is corrupt, pretty much each and everyone of them. Their capable and senior politicians have just as many skeletons in their closets as idiots from any other political party. But these guys say Islam Islam..it would be good if they can practice what they preach.
[QUOTE]
party is your party of choice? The avowedly secular ANP is it not?
[/QUOTE]
Actually not, lol I think there are good and bad in most parties even in the PML(Q). I don't support individuals, I prefer supporting issues, whats right is right and whats wrong is wrong irrespective of the Party or person. That's why i appreciate the fact that the MMA opposes the LFO but I oppose many of the MMA's policies.
The only ones I can't understand are the PML(Q) which is a artifically created Party. Most stand for nothing and believ in nothing, and in my eyes they are responsible for far more death and destruction then even Pakistans worst enemies. When you have those people on your side (the way Musharraf has) his fate could easily be the same.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Zakk:
That's why i appreciate the fact that the MMA opposes the LFO but I oppose many of the MMA's policies.
[/QUOTE]
Please tell us which of the many policies of the MMA you oppose?
Do you not believe (and history being the ultimate witness - see points below) that the MMA has just as hypocritical and double standard policy as the other parties who oppose the LFO? i.e. that it would accept the LFO practically wholesale if it's 17-point "Islamisation" programme was accepted? As for standing for nothing politicians, consider the following points which you have yet to counter despite repeatedly asking you...
The present lot of MMA (and PML-N) leaders supported General Zia's military coup against ZAB.
They supported his overthrow of the Pakistani constitution, and ruling by PCO's.
These MMA (and PML-N) leaders became and remained ministers in the government of COAS-President Zia for many years.
They supported him remaining President and well as Chief of Army Staff for the best part of 11 years.
They supported COAS-President Zia's 1984 referendum to get himself confirmed as President.
These same MMA leaders only parted with Zia because they thought he was not implementing the "Islamisation" programme as fast as they wanted?
These same MMA (and PPP, ANP etc) leaders including that liar Ghafoor supported General Musharraf's military coup that overthrew Nawaz Sharif's government did they not? Where was the supremacy of the constitution and parliament then? Care to explain? :)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
yaaar, I know there must be some very sincere ppl in MMA. but their leadership is corrupt, pretty much each and everyone of them. Their capable and senior politicians have just as many skeletons in their closets as idiots from any other political party. But these guys say Islam Islam..it would be good if they can practice what they preach.
[/QUOTE]
Fraudia bhai, none of the parties practice what they preach. For instance, the PPP has had excellent and dynamic leadership, whereas the lower party members were a disgrace to the party. In the present scenario, we should only consider the people who have not yet sold out, and it includes the MMA (so far). If Fazlur succumbs to the presidents offers, he is no better than those PML[Q] people.
MMA Hypocrisy
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
tshombe
thank you for adding that here. they have become quite good at using religion card. as soon as u oppose them or say anythign against them their supporters you get labelled as anti-islam.
[/QUOTE]
One more 'chievement' of the MMA. They incited the Pakistani youth to fight a Jihad in Afghanistan, and when the going got tough and our young men were captured, these MMA frauds didn't lift a finger to get them back. It was left to the local tribal leaders to get them back. And despite all sorts of criticism Muharraf managed to get back thousands of these fighters. These false mullahs didn't send even one of their children to fight the 'Jihad'.
Mr. Fraudia please tell me how to post pictures on this board.
tshombe there is alink at the top of the page titled upload, use that to upload the pic and then post it here
Originally posted by Spock: *
**Fraudia bhai, none of the parties practice what they preach. *
I never argued with that. I dont believe that any party practices what it preaches
*In the present scenario, we should only consider the people who have not yet sold out, and it includes the MMA (so far). If Fazlur succumbs to the presidents offers, he is no better than those PML[Q] people. *
But he is no better already, how would this one action show him to be insincere and a power mongering megalomaniac? look at the track record of these clowns.
They talk a lot about islam, but the lies, deceit, intolerance, egos and always chanign their words shows them as two bit con artists pimping religion to get power.
sadly some think of them as some sort of righteous saviors.
Re: MMA Hypocrisy
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by tshombe39: *
These false mullahs didn't send even one of their children to fight the 'Jihad'.
[/QUOTE]
oh yes, infact their kids are leading lavish lives in US.
Kinda ironic that this is the country that these MMA goons burn teh flag off and incite ppl against, their rhetoric gets them donatiosn from the simpletons..and then the kids of these MMA types live in the lap of luxury in US on funds from their fathers..the same funds that were collected on an anti-US platform.
Secondly, even if this big hypocrisy did not exist, how can political funds be used by political party leaders' kids to buy houses and cars in the US? how does that make them any better than the types of zardari
Re: MMA Hypocrisy
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by tshombe39: *
One more 'achievement' of the MMA. They incited the Pakistani youth to fight a Jihad in Afghanistan, and when the going got tough and our young men were captured, these MMA frauds didn't lift a finger to get them back. It was left to the local tribal leaders to get them back. And despite all sorts of criticism Muharraf managed to get back thousands of these fighters. These false mullahs didn't send even one of their children to fight the 'Jihad'.
[/QUOTE]
tshombe, that is one of the greatest scandals and tragedies of the lot. How many Pakistani's were sent to fight the 'Jihad' in Afghanistan by these MMA leaders, how many were killed, humiliated and imprisoned by the Afghans? When will the MMA leaders answer for this?
On another point, there was an interesting point that some Islamic cleric opposed to the MMA's confrontational and divisive tactics raised on Prime TV last night. Namely, that the leaders of the six MMA constituent parties supposedly bringing together all schools of Sunni and Shia Islam cannot even pray in the same Mosque together, and these people preach Islamic unity to the masses. Very sad and ironic, if true.