Musharraf ‘legitimately elected’ leader: McCain

Looks like the McCain has made his position clear and knows who he will be supporting in Pakistan.

http://thenews.jang.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=13113

Musharraf ‘legitimately elected’ leader: McCain

NEW YORK: US Senator John McCain, the Republican Party presidential hopeful, has rejected calls for the resignation of President Pervez Musharraf following Monday’s elections, saying he is a “legitimately elected” Pakistani leader.

“I think he’s a legitimately elected president, and we’ll see what the dynamic of the new parliament is,” said McCain, who is on a campaign swing across the United States for the party nomination.

During campaign stops in the states of Wisconsin and Ohio on Tuesday, Sen McCain was asked by reporters for his comments on the outcome of Pakistan’s election in which opposition political parties scored major gains.

“The results in Pakistan, although not unexpected, certainly are going to present a challenge for us to deal with a new government in Pakistan,” he said, according to a transcript of his remarks published in The New York Times on Wednesday.

"I believe that whoever runs the country, we have a common interest in defeating Taliban and having good relations between Afghanis-tan and Pakistan.î Later in Columbus, Ohio, McCain called Musharraf “a good ally”, but said he (Musharraf) had made some “mistakes”.

Re: Musharraf ‘legitimately elected’ leader: McCain

It is these kinds of unthoughtful and unwise remarks that have made Musharraf appear even more of a stooge of the US and fatally doomed the chances of his PML-Q in the elections.

McCain has his own issues to deal with right now, including the new one surrounding his romantic tryst with a lobbyist that is being reported and denied in all major news channels here. His commentary on a flexing legal issue about the constitutionality and legitimacy of a Presidential election in another country is interesting, but essentially meaningless.

Re: Musharraf ‘legitimately elected’ leader: McCain

That's exactly what an old and senile fool would say. Someone needs to change McCain's diapers and put him in an old-folks home, where he belongs.

Re: Musharraf ‘legitimately elected’ leader: McCain

Faisal bhai. McCain has Pakistan's interests at heart. :)

Re: Musharraf ‘legitimately elected’ leader: McCain

^ Why?

Re: Musharraf ‘legitimately elected’ leader: McCain

Did he forget about Vietnam already?

Re: Musharraf ‘legitimately elected’ leader: McCain

I wonder which is more important, the chappair he received form the people of Paksitan or McCain. I am sure for Musharraf McCain is more important, he has never cared about Pakistan or Pakistanis so long as his kursi is safe.

Re: Musharraf ‘legitimately elected’ leader: McCain

Daleel bhai. I am sure Zardari and Nawaz Sharif have interest of Pakistan at heart. Do you think they will go back on the promise they made regarding ousting President Musharaf, or will they agree with McCain that great President Musharaf is a legitimately elected leader? :)

Re: Musharraf ‘legitimately elected’ leader: McCain


Because he gave a statement in favor of Musharraf, hence the conclusion.

Re: Musharraf ‘legitimately elected’ leader: McCain

He is returning favor of Mushy when Mushy had declared support of McCain.

Re: Musharraf ‘legitimately elected’ leader: McCain

You got it dead right there. Name one country where

  • a serving army chief seeks a new term as President for five years while still in uniform; the biggest fraud IMO
  • and from a parliament that was due to complete it's tenure in a mere 10 days time!
  • and from a PML-Q lota dominated parliament that was effectively rejected by the people of Pakistan only two months later, mustering only 14% of the popular vote
  • and the biggest joke, takes constitutional oath for a new term as president while the constitution is in abeyance because of emergency rule!
  • Later went on to admit on BBC that imposition of emergency was unconstitutional and illegal, thereby losing all moral ground if he had any. In otherwords the sacking of CJ and 60% of other superior court judges was illegal which calls into question the legitimacy and constitutionality of his re-election

That said I give him credit for holding elections that were deemed to be credible by most people incl. many local and foreign observers and monitors.

Re: Musharraf ‘legitimately elected’ leader: McCain

My question ("Why?") is actually much more profound than that. Aalsi said "McCain has Pakistan's interests at heart". Probably tongue in cheek (like most his comment since Q-League has been handed a humiliating defeat in the election). I think we should all be careful and it must take a very naive person to think that any American politician/leader or Presidential candidate has Pakistan's best interest at heart. Each of them have American best interest's at heart. No exceptions. Why should any of them have Pakistan's best interest at heart? Hamm unn ke sagay lagtay hein kiya??

Personally I think a lot of Pakistanis got severely putt off with Musharaf, because they think he has dragged Pakistan too much into this war on terror and basically now Pakistani forces are dying and getting injured trying to fight America's war, and people of Pakistan are getting killed and injured (bombings in Waziristan, suicide attacks in all major cities etc) on a problem that is essentially an American problem.

Whether we agree with this characterization or not is probably not as important, its the perception that is important.

Re: Musharraf ‘legitimately elected’ leader: McCain

McCain is saying all this because it is the election year and most Republicans (atleast publicly if not privately) support Bush's war on terror and he does not want to antagonise them or jeopardise his chances by saying things against Bush's favourite poodle.

Re: Musharraf ‘legitimately elected’ leader: McCain

I think Obama will win the elections & what McCain says really doesn’t matter. BTW, I agree with what Faisal said. Here is an interesting article by Ayaz Amir (he won seat on PPPs ticket). Both AAZ and NS should read this.

http://thenews.jang.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=97566

Retreat into folly or the dawn of wisdom?
Islamabad diary

Friday, February 22, 2008
Ayaz Amir

“You have sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!” --Cromwell dismissing the Rump Parliament in April 1653

No words are more apt to our present situation. Pervez Musharraf (what had we done to deserve him?) has been the biggest disaster to hit Pakistan since that other great saviour who in his time bestrode the national scene, Gen Yahya Khan. To Yahya at least goes the credit of doing his demolition job in two and a half years. Musharraf has been at it for 3-4 times that period, his extended demolition job shaking the country to its foundations.

But is he listening? The people of Pakistan have given him and his army of flunkeys the order of the boot but he wants to soldier on. Yahya wanted to continue as president even after the loss of East Pakistan. Musharraf wants to cling to the presidency no matter how comprehensive his humiliation on Feb 18.

Bleeding hearts and assorted do-gooders, of whom there is no shortage in this country, are pleading with him to do the decent thing and quit. They might as well be pleading to the mountains. He’ll go, that’s for sure, but he’ll have to be taken to the exit door kicking and screaming. Pakistan’s self-declared 'strongmen, cardboard affairs most of them, washed their hands off a sense of dignity a long time ago.

But let’s not bother ourselves too much about someone who is already yesterday’s person. The country has to step into the future because the past is no option at all. The call to restore the deposed justices is getting stronger. The Black Coats will not rest until that is achieved. That is the best medicine Musharraf can get. Meanwhile if he chooses to twist in the wind, let him.

But what’s with our politicos? Haven’t they learned their lessons? Why did Asif Zardari have to go calling on the American ambassador? It’s easy to say Musharraf should cultivate a sense of dignity. How about our leading political lights cultivating a sense of propriety? Musharraf’s great fault was he couldn’t think for himself and allowed our American friends to do his thinking for him. Which only goes to underscore the irony that just when the people of Pakistan are showing Musharraf the exit door, another bunch of politicos are receiving political tutorials from our American godfathers.

Come on, comrades, enough of these games. It is the people of Pakistan, not citizens of America, who have given the PPP the commanding position in these elections. Time our leaders learned to listen to their own people. Flirting with America at this time is simply the wrong signal to send. Circumstances have pushed Zardari into a position where the nation expects him to conduct himself like a statesman. Power games divorced completely from principle are the last thing the people of Pakistan want at this point.

So what should happen or, in Lenin’s evocative words (which still have a fire to them after all these years), ‘what is to be done’? No need to invoke the higher gods of mathematics to arrive at the conclusion that the PPP and the PML-N should come to a broad understanding about how jointly to shoulder the burden of restoring democracy and erecting a stable political order. Being the largest party the PPP should form the government at the centre, even if it doesn’t have a majority. The PML-N should support this government but not sit in it. The PPP should rely on PML-N support rather than on the support of dubious allies (whom there is no point in naming).

The PML-N should form the government in Punjab and the PPP should support this government but without demanding any ministries. We can thus have unity of command (remember the phrase?) both at the centre and in the largest province, Punjab. The PML-N’s natural choice for Punjab CM will be Shahbaz Sharif, although I hope this time round he relies less on the Punjab bureaucracy (one of the surest roads to hell) and more on his own party.

The PPP having won a majority in Sindh should form the government in that province, with or without drinking from the poisoned chalice of the MQM. Although I suspect it will continue with the time-tested tradition of choosing the most pliable yes-man (another Abdullah Shah) as chief minister. The ANP plus whichever party it can get on board should call the shots in the Frontier. Why not Asfandyar as CM? His party the ANP has always been a great one for resounding but vacuous rhetoric. Time it got down to the less exciting but more important task of administration.

The Q League, if it survives in any form, can try its hand at governance in Balochistan (and make a hash of it).

Sounds too complicated? It really isn’t. Provided Zardari keeps his head and doesn’t kowtow to American advice too much (the Americans having their own agenda and wanting Pakistan to remain stuck along the Afghan border), and provided Nawaz Sharif doesn’t get too desperate to augment his strength by reaching out to every Q League turncoat available in the political bazaar, there’s no reason why this extended coalition arrangement should not work.

We need the politics of peace, not the politics of confrontation, best achieved by the two parties working in tandem rather than at cross-purposes. As for Musharraf, he is best ignored. If he hasn’t the sense to plan his own exit, he leaves himself no choice except to endure a form of Chinese water torture. If he is so inclined, who is to stop him?

Zardari and Sharif should concentrate on the essential tasks of governance, but without getting into each other’s hair. A national government (which means both parties sharing cabinet positions) will be a disaster because there will be too many horses galloping in different directions, and we don’t have a Churchill or a de Gaulle to preside over one. So a minority PPP government at the centre sustained by PML-N support is the next best alternative.

National minister of comic relief can be everyone’s favourite holy father, Maulana Fazlur Rehman, tragically rejected by the voters of D I Khan (he’s made it to the National Assembly via another constituency in Bannu) but still in a position to elicit a smile whenever his name is mentioned. The MQM, Musharraf’s hottest ally, has some mental adjustment to do after the generalissimo’s discomfiture. But this should not be too difficult a task for party supremo, and undisputed king of the long-distance telephonic address, Mr Altaf Hussain, who has a reputation for political flexibility.

But what if our American friends have their way and prevail upon Zardari to keep his distance from Nawaz Sharif? The PML-N should still play it cool, forming the provincial government in Lahore and giving voice to popular aspirations at the centre, becoming the great champion of the rule of law and the restoration of the judges but without injecting any acrimony into national discourse.

The last thing we need at this juncture is a descent into the chaos of the 1990s. Let both parties display maturity although it still must be said that the greater responsibility devolves on the PPP because it is in most danger of being yanked around by the Americans.

We must learn to think for ourselves. The Americans are in a mess themselves and their great agenda for Pakistan is that we should remain part of their mess, which is their idea of how best to conduct ‘the war on terror’. Pakistan’s political leadership is on trial and the next few days will show whether it has learned from its experiences and mistakes at all or, as a nation, we are destined to keep repeating the follies of the past.

Email: [email protected]

Re: Musharraf ‘legitimately elected’ leader: McCain

My friend you should think with a clear head...you're obviously confused;

  • The CJ took an oath of the PCO in 2002 (In 2002, Musharraff was in uniform) How does this make the CJ a hero...if he was for democracy why did he not reject the offer of becoming the CJ. Why did he only protest against Musharraff when he lost his job? Makes you think eh.

  • Let me give you a background on the two big "power players" in Pakistan at the current moment.

Asif Zardari - Tied a bomb to a business man's leg and made him take out cash. Governments of Swiss, France and Poland have 500 pages of incriminating evidence against him, of looting Pakistan of $1.8 Billion. The Swiss government actually has sentenced him to 6 months in prison.

Nawaz Sharif - Has also deposed a Chief Justice during 1997, Hijacked a plane, Made a deal and escaped to exile so he would not face death penealty. Backstabbed his agreement with the Saudis. Lied for 7 years that he had no deal, and then finally accepted it. Made ridicilous promises this current election of making AQ Khan the President.

My friend...there is nothing that either Nawaz or Zardari have done for Pakistan besides talk a great a game. They even admit to making faulty cases on one another...thus showing their maturity and their true nature. I assure you one thing, in the near upcoming future you will miss Musharraff and his "cronies", because although they made a few mistakes...they also progressed Pakistan. They were the first party in the history of Pakistan to accept defeat in an election. They were the first to hold free and fair elections. This accomplishment itself supersedes any accomplishment that Zardari and Nawaz have done combined.

Furthermore Musharraff is a democratically elected President of Pakistan. What ever you may think of him, if you respect "democracy", you have to accept it wholly, and not when it is convinient for you.

Lastly, I challenge you to post the achievments of Zardari and Nawaz. You will soon realize all they are is a show pony all decorated to look nice on the exterior, but no matter what one does a donkey sleaps at night being a donkey.

Re: Musharraf ‘legitimately elected’ leader: McCain

No, Sir he is not! The Constitution is very clear & it says no sitting government employee can run for a public office. Mushrraf manipulated the system, ousted the judges and got himself "elected" from rubber stamp parliament. He has no legitimacy whatsoever & the people of Pakistan know that very well. That is why they just booted out his lotas in big numbers.

Re: Musharraf ‘legitimately elected’ leader: McCain

Let me ask you some questions:

When was Ch Iftikhar doing his alleged crimes? (dates???)

Ch Iftikhar got the black eye when he indicated that he was not in favor of Mushy's "re-election", after that we saw the whole drama of reference, suspension and what not.

Do you know the justice who released terrorists from Lal Masjid is now sitting on SC bench after taking oath on latest PCO? yeah, thats Musharraf for you.

[quote]
Asif Zardari - Tied a bomb to a business man's leg and made him take out cash. Governments of Swiss, France and Poland have 500 pages of incriminating evidence against him, of looting Pakistan of $1.8 Billion. The Swiss government actually has sentenced him to 6 months in prison.
[/quote]

Is that why Musharraf issued an NRO? And now he is talking about taking NRO back if Zardari Inc. doesn't listen to Musharraf? Yeah, Musharraf for you Part II.

[quote]
Nawaz Sharif - Has also deposed a Chief Justice during 1997, **Hijacked a plane, Made a deal and escaped **to exile so he would not face death penealty. Backstabbed his **agreement with the Saudis. **Lied for 7 years that he had no deal, and then finally accepted it. Made ridicilous promises this current election of making AQ Khan the President.
[/quote]

Who did he make a deal with? Karzai or Manmohan Singh? Why did Saudis come into equation? Yeah, thats Musharraf for you Part III.

Re: Musharraf ‘legitimately elected’ leader: McCain

My friend I am not your average Mush basher. I don't question Mush's initial good intentions when he first came on the scene in 1999 albeit by violating the constitution but I am disappointed in him for not delivering on his initial 7-point agenda, his promise to rid us of corrupt politicians for ever. I don't support NS or Zardari (my upper compartment is still working fine Alhamdulillah) either. I know they both have a tainted and scandalous past and are crooks themselves. It's only because of Mush's wonderful NRO (an ill-advised move that has now come back to haunt him) that we are seeing those same tried and tested corrupt politicians re-elected to the assembly. Hence I don't particularly want Mush to be impeached by them but I most certainly want the new parliament to both restore the 73 constitution for the sake of democracy in Pakistan and reinstate the deposed judges for the sake of independence of Judiciary. This pithoo CJ Dogla (hypocrite) or Dogra whatever his name is must go. No one incl. the newly elected MNAs and the people have any confidence in him to carry out his duties in a completely impartial manner. In a parliamentary system of democracy the power lies with the elected chief executive or PM and not a military man-turned president. I would like to see an independent judiciary and media (and not the military) maintaining the necessary checks and balances on both the President and PM (and military and government officials for that matter). The army should stay out of politics for good. Yes CJ Ifti took oath under the first PCO in 2002 (that was also wrong if you ask me) but don't forget that Mush had promised then to remove his uniform by the end of 2004. So one could say that they were all duped by smooth-talking Mush. The four pillars of the state (the parliament, the executive, the judiciary, the media, add to that the military) should each work together but within their own specified domains and independently of each other. Only then can we sincerely hope to move forward as a nation.

Re: Musharraf ‘legitimately elected’ leader: McCain

Bush ka bacha, McCain...I would be deeply hurt If Americans vote him as their next President.

Re: Musharraf ‘legitimately elected’ leader: McCain

Aalsi Bhaijan,

Aap ko credit jata hay ke ab bhi aap Mush ke supporter hain. Mujhe ye samajh main nahin aata baaqi kyon aap ka saath chorh gaay, barhay befa niklay. Aap Mush Ke "Lone Ranger" hain. Dattay Rahiay:D