Musharraf-led League starts ‘political journey

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
21

Like I said earlier, every debater is a winner in political forums.

Here are some basic facts for you. Counter them with facts and I will reply. Otherwise you win this useless debate. :)

1947-1989 - Pakistan debt stood at $14 billion in 42 years.
1989-1999 - Pakistan's debt stood at $35 billion. An increse of $21 billion in 10 years.
1999- 2007- Pakistan debt stood at around $35 billion. A 0% increase in 8 years.

Now go figure where did the $21 billion go during those 10 years of musical chair game. Let me help you get started: Motorway is one. :D

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Re: Musharraf-led League starts ‘political journey

^ Politicians stole 'foreign exchange' while Musharraf stole 'local exchange'. Go find out how many billions were forgiven in loans, how much land was given away at pennies or free to some politicians.

23

That is an accusation and not a fact. Do you even understand the difference?

Reply me back when you know what you are talking about and can back it up with links.

If you can not then spare me the BS. I didnt go to the same school you did so will not entertain you.

Save it for your next drawing room gossip episode.

24

1) then what are you doing here

2) ya i guess you are right, Benazir and NS are better than Mushy

3) Trust me your was better...

25

Prove any accusation on any political leader...

just for your info, this is drawing room and this is drawing gossip... you don't like it you can leave it... it is not for some super creatures like you.. it is for some average people like us..

26

You are good in numbers but seems to be blind in looking at ground realities

During 1947-1989 --- then debt stood at 14 B... and yes there was no development in Pakistan, telecommunication, Roads, Electricity you just name it... nothing was enough for the population then... there were regular power cuts, the distance of 400 KM by road required 10-12 hours of journey.. the airports, dry-ports, fishing just name anything..

During 1989-1999 - the debt stood at 35 B... and we had telecommunication facility within the life time of the applicant ( in most cases within the 3 months of application) we had Motorways and NH kind of projects, we had better airports dry-ports and sea ports facilities, and yes we were not familiar to power-cuts in 90s...

During 1999-2007- the debt still stood at 35 B --- and we are suffering, we stand no where the reason there is not enough electricity to run the industry.. reason.. your Mushy never bothered to increase the power-gen capacity nor does he worked to upgrade the distribution network. No industrial planning yes we saw boom in consumer market that was based on imported goods/commodities...and yet a retired general was able to live in UK in a lavish condo and have big states in and out of Pakistan...

27

Maybe you're new here, go look up some old threads dedicated to Musharraf's corruption, incompetency and downright idiocies.

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And please don't say Pakistan did better during those 4 terms under NS/Benazir. *Are you blind?
*
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For the record, 2002-2009 (or 2008) was the WORST Pakistan has ever seen.

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We were an economic failure, our foreign exchanges were empty, corruption was at an all time high, we did not have a free media....the list can go on

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And in addition to all that, we were MUCH worse in terms of civil war, national unity, harmocy, sectarian killings, and terrorism at the end of Musharraf's reign of terror.

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What are you talking about?

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Again, youre a n00b so you should dig up some threads and spare these tongue in cheek questions.

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From 1999-2007 we experienced the greatest economic growth in our country. An economy of a country is like the engine of the country. The media which criticized Musharraf and labeled him dictator should thank him for giving them the freedom.

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This so called bubble burst before your beloved dictator even departed (in humiliation). Also, you are wrong, did you know the growth rates were ever higher during Zia's times? Now does that make Zia an economic mastermind? Media should spit at Musharraf; they would have emerged regardless of Musharraf. The same media emerged and expanded in India and Bangladesh at just about the same time, it was eminent and no beleaguered military dictator is to thank for that.

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What pisses me off the most is that you people do not give him credit for the economic growth and the media freedom. these 2 things are the most important for a country. I would understand if you dislike him for the decisions he made in 07-09 and I wouldn't really argue that point. It would make sense but making blatant statements that he is a dictator and he is corrupt, he is a coward, he should be hanged .....seriously - especially after the media freedom and economic growth???

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Again, if anyone is to thank for the free media, its the investors who came up with all the ideas and money. Yes, he is a cowardly figure who now hides in England. Jis ki zameer saaf hota hai woh choohey ki tarha bhag nahee jaata.

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Musharraf's problem was he was a democratically minded dictator, he should have been a real dictator.

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He was a bunghole. He tried everything, violence, political assassinations, civil war, American card, mohajir card, even paid people to show up at his rallies but in the end he had to resign in utter shame.

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And about him returning, do you read the news???? Well, did you read the title of this thread????
**

He is coming back to Pakistan!**

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Chanda, hes made that revelation several times. Everytime he goes to facebook and sees some n00b like you 'like' his facebook page it creates revelations in his mind and he thinks hes going to come back and send Pakistan into the dark ages yet again. Lets wait till he actually comes back. We are still waiting for his cousin Altaf Hussain to return as well.

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Pakistan as a nation deserve true dictatorship. How can you defend/support NS/Zardari? This is a joke.

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You need glasses, where did I defend them? They were incompetent and corrupt, but Musharraf was more than that

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I agree Musharraf made some really bad decisions but he did not make them because he was corrupt, he truly believed that those decisions would help Pakistan. He is the man who brought democracy into this country.

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Oh, so we are supposed to like him just because he had no intentions of screwing Pakistan, but did so in the process? Sorry I dont buy that. Maybe Benazir had the best in mind for Pakistan too, but failed.

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Look we are going into a cycle again: Bhutto, NS, Bhutto, NS, army, Zardari.....probably NS
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lol you conveniently you forgot that the army takes the biggest piece of the pie that comes in that cycle. Your man Musharraf got 9 bloody years.

28

Its about time his lavish farmhouse be sold and money distributed to just some of the victims of his war crimes.

29

Can you stop parroting that. Either just walk away or defend the corrupt dictator.

I see some other posters are already on to it :hehe: Wait, they must be Nawaz Sharif/zardari supporters. OMG every debater is a winner in political forums so please no more! haha
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Only the mindless thought that relying on amreekan aid would make us an economic tiger. **We missed a golden opportunity thanks to the problems Musharraf created; the time to build an infrastructure when Asia was sizzling with economic prosperity. We still have time left to do that, but now we’re bestowed with the NRO ridden civilian dictator Ghaddari, who by the way is your dictator’s parting gift to us. Imagine what we could have accomplished if we had someone like Muhatir or Manmohan instead of this war mongering corrupt kursi first tabla General.
**

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I am not here talking about mohallay ki khala's accusations. If we go by this logic, Zardari is innocent as no case has been proven against him yet. Nawaz Sharif didn't loot anything. Altaf Hussein is not a murderer.

Reply me back when you have stomach enough to digest the links.


When you take your head out of sand let me know.

31

Spock - investors don't just come up with ideas and implement them.

If you know anything about business, then you have to create the right economic and political environment if you expect people to invest in your country.

And to set the right environment the government has to implement the right policies, the right banking and credit laws, the right commercial laws, the right laws to protect investors, the right securities laws, the right trade laws......no one in their right mind would invest in a country like Pakistan especially after 1999 given our economic and political situation back then.

But investors gained confidence in Pakistan due to the Musharraf's policies. It is his actions which gave investors confidence. He attracted up to billions of dollars of foreign investment into the country.

Pakistan became one of the most investment friendly nations, our entire banking system was restructured in 2002. Most barriers to the flow of capital and international direct investment were removed. Foreign exchange controls were eased, import tariffs were reduced. He privatized the economy, and greatly reduced our foreign debt. Pakistan's economy in 1999 was $75 billion and now its $160 bilion. Our oil, gas, banking, automobile sector and telecommunications sector experienced massive growth. Hundreds of thousands of jobs were created.

**All of this doesn't happen on its own - the leadership of the country has to set the right regulatory framework.

How can you say Zardari was Mush's parting gift???? The NRO gave him a clean sheet not power. The public voted for him so if you want to blame someone, then blame your fellow citizens!**

Musharraf may have left Pakistan in a bad state but he did provide us with the basic needs to continue on, he set a platform from which we can build, he held free and fair democratic elections. Zardari maybe in power now, but clearly everyone hates him and hopefully in the next elections someone better will be elected. This is democracy. Initially its all luck but over time democracy improves as people become more literate.
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Musharraf's parting gift: freedom to vote for anyone we want = democracy.**

Unfortunately, Pakistan's military has been in power for about 2/3rd the time since our existence. As a result, this completely screwed up our system.

Democracy takes time to work properly and we have to go through a trial and error process (since majority is not always right). Pakistan's military have not let us go through this trial and error process and hence we have never had proper elections. If our military leaders had never intervened then we would be like India today. After all, they have a successful democracy. Unfortunately in 1958 the military had to step in and screw up our entire system.

And then in 1999 we came to a point that if we had continued on with NS then we would have failed as a nation. Someone had to step in, someone had to give Pakistan a temporary boost to catch up with the rest of the world and other developing nations such as India and China.

Pakistan did not have the time to go through a trial and error process of democracy (well this is my opinion). The best way for that temporary boost was the military.

And I believe Musharraf gave us that boost, even though he ruined his name in the process but hopefully now Zardari should complete his 5 year term without any interruptions and then hopefully the public will realize that they were wrong and will elect someone better.

The problem is: us = the pakistani public, we are not happy that we finally have democracy in our country, our sole aim is bent on getting revenge on the previous leaders. We never look ahead. The new government has been in power for almost 2 years but we still look back at Mush and blame everything on him. 2 years after Mush, in 2001 Pakistan were in a much better situation than in 1999. But now in 2010 we are in a worse state than in 2008.

I'm a pro-Mush and anti-NS/Zaradari but I don't go on about ranting that NS and Zardari should be hanged or tried against.

For god sake FORGET ABOUT IT.

ALL I WANT IS: for the next 3 years to pass by extremely quickly so that Zardari's term is over and I just hope in the meantime he makes some good decisions.

You should remember the leadership represents the people. We voted for Zardari. We deserve to suffer under him. All we can do at the moment, is wait for the next elections and make a better decision rather than creating civil unrest and blaming the past leadership.

And lastly, you said you didn't defend NS/Zardari. So who do you support??? I just noted that you haven't really sided with anyone so....

Are you one of those who just sit down and criticize all the different leaders??

I really get annoyed when people say they don't support anyone - I'm not trying to say you are one of them - thats why I'm asking you who you support, I'm just saying in general - because as a Pakistani there is no option as none of the above, you have to support someone.

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Re: Musharraf-led League starts ‘political journey

^^ So when is HE starting? and is he going to start it in Pakistan by announcing it in any Jalsa in Pakistan or like many other crooks we have, he'll do it from abroad..

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All Pakistan Muslim League (APML) has been formally launched in Sindh. A press conference was held in Karachi but Musharraf didn't attend it - I'm sure this will give you a reason to smile.

I really don't believe he will follow Altaf's footsteps.

There are 3 years left to the next elections so he has some time. He will work gradually as he definitely needs to gain some support especially considering the fact that he has to fight a number of cases.

We shouldn't speculate about whether he will work from abroad or not.

I'm pretty sure you believe he will be like Altaf.

Lets just wait and see - if he really wants to contest in the next elections then he will definitely have to come to Pak and be ready to face whats coming for him.

34

Good to hear that he is not going to follow the footsteps of Peer Sahib... maybe he would become the newly improved version of Peer Sahib

I don't think that 3 years is long time when we speak about launching a party and contesting elections.... anyway.. guys like me says that he haven't got the balls to comeback to Pakistan to face the music and guys like you believe that he'll be here within 3 years time... so lets wait and see...

35

Re: Musharraf-led League starts ‘political journey

Musharraf is Corrupt?

Pakistan's 2nd most rich person: Zardari
Pakistan's 3rd most rich person: Nawaz Shareef

what's Musharraf's rank? I don't know, but I've never seen him in the top 50 list... so there are always at least 50 Pakistanis richer than Musharraf... since Zardari is so rich in such short time, Musharraf should have been at least twice as rich as him in 10 years no? but he isn't... he isn't corrupt... he's the only true leader of Pakistan alive today

anyone who has a problem with him can be Zardari's slave with pleasure :)

36

tehreek-e-insaaf ?

37

You seem to be a very naive and ill-informed person.

38

Who said he is corrupt most? or Biggest dacoit? He shouldn’t even be in top 1,000,000 if he was just an army-man.

Atleast he is right about Zardari being 2nd richest.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/List_of_richest_person_of_pakistan_top_10

39

Oh please, another lost party started with ideology backed everyone including musharaf, reportedly filed case against the peer of London ( no body knows what happened to that) and has constantly given tickets to the candidates rejected by even PPP or PML(N), seems to look forward to give us new system ( and no body knows what it is) shows us all the problem ( like every other political party) with no realistic solutions at all... to me Tehrek-e-Insaf ( TI) is new making of JI...

40

Tehreek-e-Insaaf are funny.

Well to be honest Imran Khan is funny. I like the social worker Imran Khan. Not the political activist.

What the dude says is true but he doesn't have any plan or solutions. He just criticizes everyone.