Musharraf - Benazir convos taped - book reveals info

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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**So Musharraf said that her security would be based on what she ‘offers’ him!! This info couldnt have come at a better time! This guy needs to be kicked out of this country ASAP! **

(http://thenews.jang.com.pk/updates.asp?id=51517)

NEW YORK: The US intelligence agencies taped Benazir Bhutto’s phone calls, prior to her arrival in Pakistan, in a bid to “play under-the-table, cut-throat games more effectively”, a new book has revealed.

**“The Way of the World” authored by a Pulitzer Prize winning US journalist Ron Suskind, is full of disclosures, with its fair portion about Musharraf-Benazir conversation including Musharraf’s quote “You should understand something, your security is based on the state of our relationship”. **

Suskind writes that Benazir Bhutto’s case of returning to Pakistan was strongly backed by Condoleezza Rice-led State Department and equally opposed by Vice President Dick Cheney who considered Bhutto “complicated and unpredictable”.

The book said whenever Benazir Bhutto went harsh on Musharraf, the US ambassador in Islamabad advised her to “tone down any criticism of Musharraf”. The author said Bhutto often regretted that Vice President Cheney never called Musharraf asking him to “behave” and instead kept her pressing for coming to terms with him.

As Musharraf, during telephonic conversations, refused entertaining her demand of revoking provision barring her becoming PM for third time, Bhutto said: “What you can give me (then)? May be some real reform in election commission”.

Musharraf said: “She should not be hoping for much there (reforms), either”. The book revealed US intelligence once intercepted Bhutto’s conversation with her son, Bilawal. “They’ve been listening to her calls for months, including an earlier call she made to her son.”

In that call, the book said, she told him (Bilawal) about the secret bank accounts that hold the family’s fortunes that investigators have long suspected are ill-gotten. Therefore when Bhutto once floated the idea of freezing foreign accounts of “key people around Musharraf”, a US official let her understand that the United States could, if need be, “constrain her assets” just as she was now suggesting they do to Musharraf.

According to the author, Bhutto’s representative started approaching the State Department, in spring 2006 to work out a plan for her return, but White House began taking her seriously after the widespread demonstrations in backdrop sacking of Chief Justice. And this plan was aimed to shore up an embattled Musharraf, a single-issue ally.

Bhutto would consider, the book said, the lawyers and especially Iftikhar Chaudhry were a “problem” and that they owned the "high ground of principle. While she was sprouting democratic rhetoric, the book said, she was caught in the deal room — a position in which she came close to mirroring the “say one thing but do another” behavior of the United States.

The book also discloses details of Bhutto’s meeting with US Senator John Kerry requesting for her security and his reply that "United States is generally hesitant to ensure the protection of anyone who is not a designated leader”.

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Well, looks like political games. so aside from we know political wrangling from Musharraf, what else do we find here..

*1- Benazir Bhutto's case of returning to Pakistan was strongly backed by Condoleezza Rice-led State Department (so sent by condi)

2-Bhutto often regretted that Vice President Cheney never called Musharraf asking him to "behave" and instead kept her pressing for coming to terms with him. (told to back of by cheney)

3- her demand of revoking provision barring her becoming PM for third time, (looking for power)

4-told him (Bilawal) about the secret bank accounts that hold the family's fortunes that investigators have long suspected are ill-gotten. (secret stash...)

5-According to the author, Bhutto's representative started approaching the State Department, in spring 2006 to work out a plan for her return (asking US to install her)

6-White House began taking her seriously after the widespread demonstrations in backdrop sacking of Chief Justice. And this plan was aimed to shore up an embattled Musharraf, a single-issue ally. (tool of US)

7-Bhutto would consider, the book said, the lawyers and especially Iftikhar Chaudhry were a "problem" (considered CJ a problem)

8- she was caught in the deal room — a position in which she came close to mirroring the "say one thing but do another" behavior of the United States. (saying one thign doing another) *

very interesting indeed. nice leaders eh?

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Re: Musharraf - Benazir convos taped - book reveals info

yeah cheney supporting musharraf! also, i always figured rice never liked mushy, which is prolly why shauky's 1 minute win charms didnt work hehe

Shawarma Recipe
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Re: Musharraf - Benazir convos taped - book reveals info

it is rather revealing about the daughter of the beast though. I always said she was an opportunistic corrupt as hell spoiled brat and was plan B of USA. as this book shows.

It shows the ugly nature of Pakistani politics, and the leashes that tie our leaders..whether it is Musharraf, Benazir or I suppose Zardari and Nawaz etc.

faces change things dont change

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Don't forget the other part "they owned high ground of principle".

Anyway, it tells a lot about our "sovereignty", many guppies here think that US is not "controlling" Pakistan remotely, that US interference and 2:00AM calls are just hoax etc. They might shrug off this book as yet another propaganda.

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Re: Musharraf - Benazir convos taped - book reveals info

owned high groud of principle...yet a problem for her..or maybe a problem for her because they held a high ground of principle.

the thing is that ppl start jumping u and down about 2 a.m. calls but question stuff about the remote control moving BB.

so musharraf has bid his time and is on his way out. I said it last year that he will be gone this year..BB kicked the bucket and we are finding this info. when push came to shove we found out other powers who helped save Nawaz..

do u wonder what else we dont know?

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Of course they were a problem for her, remember how Aitzaz was sidelined? There was a reason, the author just mentioned it in his book.

Not really, as I said that our politicians, army, government are not as "sovereign" as we would like'em to be. All the sh!t that goes on is being manipulated from outside, our politicians/military are only pawn in the big game outside.

We do know a lot then we think we do. Most of the "books" or "papers" or "declassified documents" reveal info that people already knew about, these books/papers/interviews just endorse the knowledge.

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It's abolutely clear that Musharraf is the ghunda let loose by Americans on Pakistani nation....who threatened to kill people, kidnapped people, broke every law in the country, played havoc with our institutions, and acted as a state enemy.....the sooner the nation gets rid of him, the better it is...therefore I agree with coalition's decision that it should be the first priority to show him the way out....and preferable to put him on trial for all the crimes he has committed over the years...and let the law take it's due course to decide the fate of this condemned man...

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Re: Musharraf - Benazir convos taped - book reveals info

Bleh.

I want a Pakistani author with credibility to write books on its leaders. Not outsiders dissecting Pakistan.

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This is extreme hate for her and her father and your views are biased of hatred. If you look around, there were/are worst beasts either dead or still alive roaming without any charge still on the corridor of power. Worst is Altaf Husaain and his killers goons.

I agree with your comments for her being power hungry (who is not?) which ultimately lead her to death. She perhaps forgot that her arrival in Pakistan was conditional. The best option for her was to never return to Pakistan under these circumstances.

The book also reveals that who could be responsible for her death. Were jehadis or some other agencies killed her? Mush's repeated reminder to her that her safey was related to how she behave with the dictator, got her killed.

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Musharraf said that her security would be based on what she offers him: ......:What an interpretation spock has produced ... it looks like that such interpretation can come straight from Raiwand farm house ... just like convicted Nawaz left Pakistani Prison on special plane to Saudi Arabia without deal :)

Rebel X has done good summary but he did not go into what is there in news between the lines.

Musharraf said that her security would be based on what she ‘offers’ him ... this has to be read in relation to many things and certainly in relation to reasons she was in contact. Not what Spock likes all to believe :). We have to see things, for instance:

Who was behind the talk and who initiated the talk
The purpose of the talk with Benazir
What Benazir was expected to do (or asked)
What Musharraf was offering her regarding what she was asking
What was attitude of Musharraf in the talk
What was the attitude of BB in the talk
What was the attitude of USA (broker of the deal) in the talk

Now what I can see in this article is that:

BB was approaching USA since 2006 to broker a talk with Musharraf so that she can return to Pakistan.

[quote]
According to the author, Bhutto's representative started approaching the State Department, in spring 2006 to work out a plan for her return, but White House began taking her seriously after the widespread demonstrations in backdrop sacking of Chief Justice. And this plan was aimed to shore up an embattled Musharraf, a single-issue ally.
[/quote]

USA was ignoring her because they had nothing to offer Musharraf on her behalf. But in 2007 after judges’, lawyers, and politicians ‘bhangra on road’, they (USA) had something to offer President on behalf of BB that is to get PPP aloof from this Bhangra to calm down this ‘bhangra on road’, so they came in for her.

That is what USA thought, but Musharraf was not that much concerned. This can be seen from his attitude ... Musharraf was not agreeing much what she was demanding ... it seems he was in talk only because USA was pushing for talk.

[quote]
As Musharraf, during telephonic conversations, refused entertaining her demand of revoking provision barring her becoming PM for third time, Bhutto said: "What you can give me (then)? May be some real reform in election commission".

Musharraf said: "She should not be hoping for much there (reforms), either"...
[/quote]

Is there any other indication that Musharraf was not interest in talk and was doing it because of USA pushing for it? ... It is obvious, as whenever BB went harsh on Musharraf US ambassador advised her to tone down (behave) that Bhutto often regretted that why USA was not doing that to Musharraf.

[quote]
The book said whenever Benazir Bhutto went harsh on Musharraf, the US ambassador in Islamabad advised her to "tone down any criticism of Musharraf". The author said Bhutto often regretted that Vice President Cheney never called Musharraf asking him to "behave" and instead kept her pressing for coming to terms with him.
[/quote]

Obviously, USA was telling her to behave and not to Musharraf, because they were asking Musharraf to accommodate and give concession to BeNazir that Musharraf was not interested. .They were not asking anything from BeNazir that Musharraf needed ... so they could not tell Musharraf or advice him 'to tone down ... or behave' as he was not needy party but was just obliging USA.

On the other hand, they were telling BeNazir to 'tone down and behave' because they were working for BeNazir and was trying their best to make Musharraf give her concessions. They did not wanted BeNazir to behave in such way that talks stop.

[quote]
"You should understand something, your security is based on the state of our relationship".
[/quote]

Above statement clearly shows that BeNazir was too confident on USA pressure on Musharraf and that she believed that since USA was behind her, she can ask for anything. But Musharraf made it clear to her that her relationship with USA does not mater, nor she should expect that they could do a lot for her, as all depends on him and thus she should behave and should not ask too much.

Was Musharraf asking anything from her? Obviously not, as if he was asking anything from her, he would have been fulfilling her demands that he was declining throughout. Actually, situation for BeNazir became so desperate that she had to ask Musharraf that what he can give her ... and Musharraf said ... she could not hope for much ... even in little things like reform in election commission (maybe she wanted election commission not to scrutinize her) ... neither regarding her becoming third time PM.

[quote]
As Musharraf, during telephonic conversations, refused entertaining her demand of revoking provision barring her becoming PM for third time, Bhutto said: "What you can give me (then)? May be some real reform in election commission".

Musharraf said: "She should not be hoping for much there (reforms), either"...
[/quote]

From this news, it seems that Musharraf was talking to her only to fulfil USA desire, but in conversation with her he was doing everything to make it hard for her and make her realise that he was talking to her just to please USA else he do not really need her or her help in any way and she should not expect a lot of concessions from him.

[Pakistani leaders have to take into account relationship with USA seriously if they are sincere with Pakistan. Reason is because Pakistani economy depends on USA more than any country (most aid/loan to Pakistan comes from USA ... even loan from ADB, IDB, IMF, WB, European Union, Japan, Saudi Arabia, etc comes when USA nods, and USA is the biggest export destination for Pakistani manufactured goods). Most of Pakistani defence requirements are fulfilled by USA ... most of those defence requirements Pakistan receives from USA are as grant, on aid or soft loan. Most Pakistani knowhow (even student getting higher education) related to military or civilian comes from USA. USA is the biggest destination of Pakistani students, where most students finance their education getting USA grants or from working in USA ... something they could not do anywhere in the world. Most expatriate remission of dollars comes to Pakistan from USA. etc ... So, Pakistani leaders have to accommodate American demands to an extend and if Musharraf was talking to BeNazir because USA wanted to, then one cannot say that he was doing that for personal reasons ... as it is interest of Pakistan, to accommodate USA demands ... but without compromising Pakistani interests

Anyhow, I think that NRO did compromised Pakistani interests and thus I do not know why this was issued. I am not in such position to know exact reasons for NRO, as to me, I do not see anyone other than politicians gained from it ... though since NRO excludes all corruption cases after 1999, any politicians that may have done corruption after 1999 do not gain anything from NRO. So, to me, NRO make no sense. What I know, NRO only saves politicians who did corruption or broken law before Musharraf came to power 1999. I think NRO was big concession for benefit of Zardari, BeNazir as well as Nawaz and his crook partners. I am all for repealing NRO].

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You better watch what you say, dont get personal, samjhay?

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Bura maan gayea? Do not worry, I am not you that I would become personal ... what you always become. I could not understand how you took what I wrote as personal?

If You could not understand what a person writes, it is not my fault. I wrote: ... 'it looks like that such interpretation can come straight from Raiwand farm house' ... it only means that such interpretation is similar to propaganda of Nawaz Shareef coming from Raiwand farm house ... and when I wrote that ... you produced such interpretation ... it means that you are victim of such propaganda or have interpreted in similar way.

Now in that, what did you found personal? ... being victim of Propaganda by Nawaz coming from Raiwand farm house? If you consider that as personal then ... I have no words for you :)

Anyhow, it is nothing personal ... I can only say that, if you are so sensitive and do not want to be considered as propaganda machine for Nawaz League, then stop spreading propaganda for Nawaz League, stop abusing others for their political views, stop labelling and accusing people and making comments on their post. No one would label you and would accuse you of being propaganda machine of Nawaz.

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That is a personal attack. But "main na manoo" is the norm. Please don't justify personal slurs with 1000 page reply.

Timepass -April 2012
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How would you feel if I say you are a product of the gutter mentality that comes out of 9-0 from Pir Altafs chichora camp. And yeah, next time dont post those 1000 word explanations. just stick to politicians, dont get personal.

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Re: Musharraf - Benazir convos taped - book reveals info

^Then you’d have an endless scroll full of you know what…at your hands.

And the subject would expect you to believe it as a revelation from the highest heavens because anyone who disagrees simply is not capable of comprehending the Flawnalysis that is often offered. At no expense but credibility and dignity ofcourse…but what do those mean to such folks…

:chai:

That’s what i think he would feel…i could be wrong ofcourse.

psssttt…here’s a trick question: Ask him when is the leader of perhaps 3rd largest, though only regional party, coming to Pakistan to address his voters and assure them Karachi won’t be talibanized instead of delivering tele"Phony" speeches written 10 mins before using the calling card.

Aaj Kiss Baat Par Gussa Aaya ??????
Aaj Kiss Baat Par Gussa Aaya ??????
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:hehe:

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not hatred, ...dislike, and disgust. why is it that extreme dislike of both those morons have to be based on bias only? There is enough reasosn to dislike them. tomorrow someone will say that one does not like zardari because of bias..

Comparing them to a jackass like altaf does not make them any less of morons.

whoever killed her does not change the fact that she was a pathetic self serving corrupt politician, who in the end serves as a reminder to us all that no matter what phannay khan we think we are, life can end any minutw whether by natural causes or by other people. Zia learnt it as well, Zulfukar saw it, and I bet there will be others who will see it as well.

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Thank god! I thought you had nothing but words for us!

Timepass -April 2012
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Well, did I ever told you that you are product of a gutter cover choor mentality that comes from Raiwand dung house from Thug Nawaz chichora Liar camp who is the biggest crook ever born in Pakistan? Well, the day I would say that, you tell me that I gone personal and I would apologise. Until then, do not accuse me that I was personal with you.

And yea, even though I have never said anything personal to you unprovoked, in forum or PM ... You have said that a lot to me unprovoked, in forum as well as in PM, so do not try to play victim. Respect others to get respect.