Musharaf - Pro-american? think again

[muali]

Re: Musharaf - Pro-american? think again

Once you come out of lala land and understand how our army works then you will come to know why Pakistanis are condemning Mushy.

Preach this crap to someone who doesnt know jack about pakistan....
u have hate piled up inside you against army rule...simply because US is favoring this leadership.....thats all the fuss..... thats why even a good deed seems like a terrible thing to you.....
**

Now you tell me
how army has made a pakistani layman's life misreable in pakistan???

VS

How the self proclaimed so called true followers of Islam has made a pakistani layman's life misreable???

You be the judge.....OK

[Captain1]

Re: Musharaf - Pro-american? think again

How the army has made life miserable in Pakistan?

Army has destroyed every single civilian institution, destroyed constitution, never let democracy prosper, created monsters like MQM, taliban.... do you want me to continue the list or should that be enough for now?

The self proclaimed followers have made life miserable too... let me know where I approved of them.

[muali]

Re: Musharaf - Pro-american? think again

How the army has made life miserable in Pakistan?

Army has destroyed every single civilian institution, destroyed constitution, never let democracy prosper, created monsters like MQM, taliban.... do you want me to continue the list or should that be enough for now?

Civilian institution............destroyed???????
putting a strict head of the department who happenes to be a military person with good leadership qualities.....doesnt mean the institution is destroyed,it secures the institution .......give me the name of one institution which lost its outcome, image,credibility ,etc after it was *" destroyed"** by army ....... and please do give me a count of lives which were perished in that distruction.*

never let democracy prosper

.
NS,BB they were elected by the people ...right?
How free and democratic country pakistan was in their time..... please enlighten me on that....you and i both know how things were in their times.....
Again give me count of lives which were perished for not having this luxury of life.

created monsters like MQM, taliban

Why stop here.....go on..... associate all those organizations with army which are considered terrorist all around the world.............there is no limit to imagination buddy.

*

The self proclaimed followers have made life miserable too... let me know where I approved of them.

*
So the fear of life for pakistani comes from army rule of from militancy. *
*I know you dont support militants but you accusing army at the same time too.

[Captain1]

Re: Musharaf - Pro-american? think again

@muali

Civilian institution…destroyed???
putting a strict head of the department who happenes to be a military person with good leadership qualities…doesnt mean the institution is destroyed,it secures the institution …give me the name of one institution which lost its outcome, image,credibility ,etc after it was " destroyed" by army … and please do give me a count of lives which were perished in that distruction.

Yes sure, the whole nation is corrupt, there are no leaders even on educational level… the only leadership qualities remain in Army. Pakistan should close all civilian institutions and franchise army institutions… way to go :k:

Question: Does “desctruction” of an institute only mean that its structure was demolished and there was human-life casualties?

NS,BB they were elected by the people …right?
How free and democratic country pakistan was in their time… please enlighten me on that…you and i both know how things were in their times…
Again give me count of lives which were perished for not having this luxury of life.

How much time these democracies got to prosper? These democracies were after how long of previous dictatorship? (11 years). You can’t be serious if you think leadership vacuum doesn’t create in dictatorships. And these NS/BB are miltary created civilian clowns, only if you can read some history.

Why stop here…go on… associate all those organizations with army which are considered terrorist all around the world…there is no limit to imagination buddy.

I wish you had raised red flags when army was training militants for “Freedom of Kashmir” or “controlling Afghanistan”… all of sudden these freedom fighters are militant just because they are causing havoc in our land and not in someone else’s land. Killing of civilian people by terrorists is painful all of a sudden?

*So the fear of life for pakistani comes from army rule of from militancy. *
I know you dont support militants but you accusing army at the same time too.

Yes, the bread and butter for army comes for the wars/fights against enemies… and guess who is the enemy of Pakistan these days?

[Captain1]

Re: Musharaf - Pro-american? think again

BTW: Here is how our army is "controlling" and providing "leadership" in one of civilian institute.... your homework is to find faults if you can:

"NUML (formerly NIML) in Islamabad, the national univ of modern languages has had an army guy take over, without any linguistics achievement (previous heads had degrees in German, French, Russian etc)... Hes a complete 'kora' guy and knows Musharraf, and has 5 cars to his personal use (2 for his daughters, one for wife), and all the people working in the university have to go work at his house after the day ends too. For instance, the maali has to go and do khidmat at his personal lawn too...."

This is provided by another guppy who knows about it.

[Ali_R]

Re: Musharaf - Pro-american? think again

BTW: Here is how our army is "controlling" and providing "leadership" in one of civilian institute.... your homework is to find faults if you can:

"NUML (formerly NIML) in Islamabad, the national univ of modern languages has had an army guy take over, without any linguistics achievement (previous heads had degrees in German, French, Russian etc)... Hes a complete 'kora' guy and knows Musharraf, and has 5 cars to his personal use (2 for his daughters, one for wife), and all the people working in the university have to go work at his house after the day ends too. For instance, the maali has to go and do khidmat at his personal lawn too...."

This is provided by another guppy who knows about it.

And this is still happening....
Pak people have lost all respect for their Army, just coz of such reasons mentioned by Captaan Saheb.
The same Army considered now as the root for all evil, was once backed by the same guys who now have switched sides by understanding some corruption charges against Pak Army to be true.

[muali]

Re: Musharaf - Pro-american? think again

@Captain1

Question: Does “desctruction” of an institute only mean that its structure was demolished and there was human-life casualties?

.

^^o bhai mere…hold on…i guess i put it wrong…
i meant to say…how many people army had to kill to make this move? That people are so outraged with such thing…

@Captain1

How much time these democracies got to prosper? These democracies were after how long of previous dictatorship? (11 years). You can’t be serious if you think leadership vacuum doesn’t create in dictatorships. And these NS/BB are miltary created civilian clowns, only if you can read some history.

@Captain1

Yes sure, the whole nation is corrupt, there are no leaders even on educational level… the only leadership qualities remain in Army. Pakistan should close all civilian institutions and franchise army institutions… way to go :k:

i’m confused buddy on one hand you say…the nation didnt get enough time to democraticaly prosper its self, even with the leaders who were appointed by the people… but then again you are saying those leader were actually appointed by military … you gotta make up your mind and think above the hatred spirit towards army…See the problem is that you think army is accountable for the all the mess…but army is simply trying to protect its land and people.

@Captain1

I wish you had raised red flags when army was training militants for “Freedom of Kashmir” or “controlling Afghanistan”… all of sudden these freedom fighters are militant just because they are causing havoc in our land and not in someone else’s land. Killing of civilian people by terrorists is painful all of a sudden?

.
Kashmir is not our fight and i dono when we are going to learn this…but here again you are accusing army for harboring militancy…great
Controlling afghanistan… buddy its time to brush up you history knowledge…
Out intrusion was only for sake of our national security…do you really think …if russia would have been successful in invading Afghanistan…they would have stopped right there…russian always needed a straight route to indian ocean…
But here again even in time of protecting our national interest you are accusing army for interfering in afghan matter…good job …
Listen your just taking your frustration out on army… thats not how it works…
Our army is much more sincere to pakistan than you and i.pakistan army would never sell out its land and people… but i’m sure u’ll come up with something to diss army there too…you just hate army just for the heck of it…

@Captain1

Yes, the bread and butter for army comes for the wars/fights against enemies… and guess who is the enemy of Pakistan these days?

I’n my opinion its not army… but in your case it nuthing but army.

@Captain1

“NUML (formerly NIML) in Islamabad, the national univ of modern languages has had an army guy take over, without any linguistics achievement (previous heads had degrees in German, French, Russian etc)… Hes a complete ‘kora’ guy and knows Musharraf, and has 5 cars to his personal use (2 for his daughters, one for wife), and all the people working in the university have to go work at his house after the day ends too. For instance, the maali has to go and do khidmat at his personal lawn too…”
This is provided by another guppy who knows about it.

^^LOL…
you r naive or what that you believe this kinder garten gossip without any proof…i can only laugh at it.
Blowing things out of proportion is not a new thing in pakistani gossip …i atleast know that and you should know that too…
Let me ask you something… have you ever hung out with military folks?
are you familiar with their living style and the way things work around hmmmm… have you?

[Robert]

Re: Musharaf - Pro-american? think again

All I want is a government I can criticize. With Musharaf we had that. I do not want BB or NS because you cannot argue with corrupt idiots. They just give balogna response.

[Captain1]

Re: Musharaf - Pro-american? think again

.^^o bhai mere......hold on.....i guess i put it wrong... i meant to say....how many people army had to kill to make this move? That people are so outraged with such thing....

Again, why does it have to be human life casualty to be considered "destruction" or worthy of "outrage"? By placing army (whether competent or incompetent) people in civilian institutions we are simply denying any hard work and dedication by civilians.

[quote]
i'm confused buddy on one hand you say.....the nation didnt get enough time to democraticaly prosper its self, even with the leaders who were appointed by the people...... but then again you are saying those leader were actually appointed by military
[/quote]

[quote]
... you gotta make up your mind and think above the hatred spirit towards army.....See the problem is that you think army is accountable for the all the mess........but army is simply trying to protect its land and people.

[/quote]

These guys who got democratically elected were propped up by army in different times, but the whole govt setup was still democratic in 1990s. The process of getting to democracy is not like ABC... its complicated, hard and sometimes longer to have stable and accountable government.

[quote]
Kashmir is not our fight and i dono when we are going to learn this..........but here again you are accusing army for harboring militancy.......great
[/quote]

And who were training all those Lashkars? Who were funding them? My Rs10 can only get that far (ie public funding is only a drop in the bucket).

[quote]
Controlling afghanistan..... buddy its time to brush up you history knowledge....
Out intrusion was only for sake of our national security...
[/quote]

I am not talking about 80s war, rather post 80s war.... the rise of Taliban.

[quote]
Listen your just taking your frustration out on army..... thats not how it works....
[/quote]

[quote]

Our army is much more sincere to pakistan than you and i.pakistan army would never sell out its land and people..... but i'm sure u'll come up with something to diss army there too........you just hate army just for the heck of it.....

[/quote]

You are probably talking about army at lower ranks, the one who actually pulls the triggers on ground... I am talking about top brass, not all, but those who are incharge.

[quote]
^^LOL....
you r naive or what that you believe this kinder garten gossip without any proof.....i can only laugh at it.
Blowing things out of proportion is not a new thing in pakistani gossip ....i atleast know that and you should know that too......
Let me ask you something.... have you ever hung out with military folks?
are you familiar with their living style and the way things work around hmmmm..... have you?
[/quote]

I guess CJ also was falsely accused of nepotism, BMWs and what not... you probably are right. I am glad I didn't "hang out" with army, otherwise I would have got used to the "strong arm" theories. I have seen them using force against local police guys very frequently, thrashed a whole police station because they stopped (unknowingly) an army guy and treated him like regular civilian.

[Reza_Pahlavi]

Re: Musharaf - Pro-american? think again

@Robert

Also wanna point out the role judiciary played. They kept delaying the decision, knowing how much uncertainty it is causing. I mentioned that in my previous notes, that it seems like CJ dude is having fun, how much attention he is getting through media. Once decision is out, he would not be that important anymore. He got a taste of politics and he is loving every bit of it. Now he is asking people to hit the streets, first ever judge to order so. Why blame Musharaf alone? Everybody here is playing for himself, atleast Musharaf’s greed of power, gave us foreign investment, relative stability, injected religious tolerence and moderation. Even a corrupt leader, can be good for the country, because he would find ways to bring in more money in the country, so he can make more. An idiot leader, would just ask you to stop spending, because he does not have ideas, how to improve economy. Musharaf is not corrupt, he does not hate this country. He fought wars for it.

Excellent post. :k:

[Ali_R]

Re: Musharaf - Pro-american? think again

All I want is a government I can criticize. With Musharaf we had that. I do not want BB or NS because you cannot argue with corrupt idiots. They just give balogna response.

Welcome to democracy, but Army had enough time to make things different. In the end even they failed to do so.

[Reza_Pahlavi]

Re: Musharaf - Pro-american? think again

@Robert

He has been accused of being dog of the US. but what about the following facts

1. USA wants him to bring back democracy. He has other thoughts. USA cannot push much as they need Musharaf more than Musharaf needs them

2. USA wants BB to be the next PM. Mush does not want that and doing a lot to prevent that from happening.

3. Musharaf has refused to Hand over AQ khan

4. He has refused US army to enter pak’s territory

5. He made a pact with tribes in the north west, despite of US’s disapproval

6. He did not close madrassas and kept explaining to the west how they are like NGOs educating kids who cannot afford it

Its obvious he is his own man, a boss in his own right. While I feel strongly that his latest decision of imposing emergency is more out of greed of power, than anything else, yet I find myself supporting him, that after evaluating all other options. I mean look at BB and how she has been behaving for the last two weeks. Not to mention NS, who passed statements like “I returned home just for the people, otherwise I did’nt need to”, as if its still 1980’s and people would believe in these fluffy logos and motos.

He has also ignored American objections and agreed a pipeline deal with Iran.
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showthread.php?t=269247