Re: ► Murday Key Wakalat ◄
I read your post # 4 and 5. Will you please post a reference from Quran also, if possible.
for her words on minjah ul quran are more important then Quran (nauzbillah)
Re: ► Murday Key Wakalat ◄
Peace to all,
The topic is a talking point for most of us. There is no need to point finger to anyone ..
There are many things which need to be explained by the the some scholors not by us armchair critics..
In my view .These practise done by Allama Tahir is not normal,for me i have seen this first time..i never heard this in any of sect is following this...but the explaination provided by thefatwa.com website needs to verified from some proper scholars..the Ahadith which mentioned in the fatwa need to be explained...
one more point which Strengthen the point that dead person can listen is the DUA for for visiting graves..
"As-Salaamu Alaikum Yaa Ahlal Quboori Yaghfirullahu lana wa lakum
Antum Salafuna wa nahnu bil asar"
" O dweller of the graves, peace be upon you. May Allah forgive us and you. You reached before us and we will follow behind you."
Now the points which are against is the Fatir-22
Transliteration : wa- maa yastawe al- ah.yaa' wa- laa al- amwaat 'inna 'allaah yusmic man yashaa' wa- maa 'anta bi- musmic man fe al- qubor
Pickthall : Nor are the living equal with the dead. Lo! Allah maketh whom He will to hear. Thou canst not reach those who are in the graves.
Asad : and neither are equal the living and the dead [of heart]. Behold, [O Muhammad,] God can make hear whomever He wills, whereas thou canst not make hear such as are [dead of heart like the dead] in their graves:
Malik : nor the living and the dead. Certainly Allah can make anyone hear if He so wills; but, O Prophet, you cannot make those who are in the graves hear you.
Yusuf Ali : Nor are alike those that are living and those that are dead. Allah can make any that He wills to hear; but thou canst not make those to hear who are (buried) in graves. 3905
in the link from thefatwa.com the following hadith was not mentioned completely..
راوی کا بیان ہے کہ اس صورت حال پر حضرت عمر رضی اللہ عنہ عرض گزار ہوئے : یا رسول اللہ صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم ! آپ ایسے جسموں سے کلام فرما رہے ہیں جن میں روحیں نہیں ہیں۔ پس رسول اللہ صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم نے فرمایا : قسم اس ذات کی جس کے قبضے میں محمد کی جان ہے! جو کچھ میں کہہ رہا ہوں اسے تم اِن سے زیادہ نہیں سنتے
i read the same hadith with last line addition
صحیح بخاری حدیث نمبر (3980) صحیح مسلم حدیث نمبر (932)
ب – ابو طلحہ رضی اللہ عنہ بیان فرماتے ہیں کہ عمر رضی اللہ عنہ نے کہا کہ اے اللہ کے رسول صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم آپ ایسے جسموں کے ساتھ بات کر رہے ہیں جن کی روحیں ہی نہیں ہیں تو نبی صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم نے جواب دیا اس ذات کی قسم جس کے ہاتھ میں محمد (صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم ) کی جان ہے جو میں انہیں کہہ رہا ہوں تم ان سے زیادہ سننے والے نہیں ہو > قتادہ فرماتے ہیں کہ اللہ تعالی نے انہیں زندہ کیا اور نبی صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم کا قول سنایا تا کہ انہیں حسرت اور ندامت اور ذلت کا سامنا کرنا پڑے –
Again this need to discuss ,with the intention to seek knowledge,
May Allah guide us on right path..
Re: ► Murday Key Wakalat ◄
when i saw the vdo posted here i researched for the answer n i came through the site of minhaj ul Quran for the first time so i contacted them,posted the vdo with my question n within two days time i recieved the answer mail…
the matter i have recieved i hv posted it above wich is proven by Ahadees,there are things on wich u will not find details in Quran (now dont take that negative)so in that situation we seek referrence from Ahadees or SUNNAT E NABAWI:saw2:…for example;Quran says**AQEEM US SALAH,but how to offer namaz is not written in Quran, in that case sunnat e nabawi 
tells us how to pray five times a day and the minor details of offering salah,same goes for Hajj,Zakat,Roza etc…you cannot seperate Hadees from Quran,when we rae faced with some problem in our religion we seek advice from Quran,if we dont find the deatils in Quran we seek advice from the Sunnah:saw2:,and if we dont find clear answer then we seek advice from the Fiqh,and if still not able to find answer then AJTIHAD is done…
see this vdo posted by mr sannan wich sas that talqeen is proven in Ahadees…Tahir ull Qadiri wen doing talqeen was not doing any sort of drama as in my veiw,he askd the ppl to go away,if ppl were standing beside him or surrounding him while he’s doing talqeen then one would say that he’s doing some kind of drama there..
http://youtu.be/WxxWcmAL3Wg
**
Re: ► Murday Key Wakalat ◄
for her words on minjah ul quran are more important then Quran (nauzbillah)
Again i will ask u to stop putting ur meanings in my words....use ur empty head..
Re: ► Murday Key Wakalat ◄
Bibi Jee, Agar Quran saaf saaf alfaz main kah raha hay kah Ghair ko Sajjada karna haram hay aur Allah kay siwa Ghair ko pukarna mana hay Leekan kuch loog ghari gharai ahadith say iss ko sach sabit karnay par tul jatay hain to mujhay aap batain kah** Aap Quran ko manain gi kah Unnn logoon ko ? Simply say Quran or those people ?**
Re: ► Murday Key Wakalat ◄
Bibi aap mairay sawaloon ka jawab dainay say qasir hain to jhunjula kar mujhay bura bhalla kah rahi hain 
Koi baat naheen 
hota hay hota hay
leekan mujhay batain Empty head ko kaisay use karoon 
aap use kar sakti hain kia 
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**yahn sajda karnai ki baat kahan sai agayai,OUT OF TOPIC baat baat na karein,SAJDA SIRF ALLAH SUBHANAOTALLH ko karna jayaeiz hai,
kisi ghair ko pukarnai ki baat kahan sai agayi (out of topic again)…
one question to u muslim brother wen u go to graveyard,wht u ppl do there???,wht Duas u offer there??are u following NABI E KAREEM’S:saw2:sunnah or u hv ur own new method or DUa,plz enlighten us??
**
Re: ► Murday Key Wakalat ◄
Nice question. I always thought when I go to graveyard. People say read Surah Fateha and Char Qul, but all these Surahs are for live people especially Surah Fateha, which is a Dua for Hidayat.
Re: ► Murday Key Wakalat ◄
mohtaram bhai
mein continusly appkai questions ka answer dairahein hoon,aappnai jo thread banaya **murdai ki wakalat,research sai mein nai appko bataya kai yea murdai ki wakalat nai balkai talqeen bad az margh hai,jis kai barai mein appko kuch matter bhi faraham kiya,aur app ki appni vdo sai bhi sabit huya kai talqeen e maiyat islam mein jayeiz hai…
plz see ur post no 8 in wich u mentioned the vdo of **Peer Syed Irfan Shah Mashhadi…**evry time u bring a new thing out of topic…
.ALLAH knows best**
Re: ► Murday Key Wakalat ◄
Woh video sirf iss liye aap ko dikhai gai thi kah aap he kay aik peer sb iss ko ghalat kah rahay hain to shayad aap ko samjh main aa jay leekan Allah jis ka samjh day!
Mujhay batain kah yah wakalat naheen hay to kia hay kah murday ko farafar jawabat daina ? Agar Yah sub kuch ittna asaaan hay tou sub gunahgaar bhi backhshay gaiy keonkah tahir ul qadri unn kay behalf par jawab day dain gaiy aur woh lagay gaiay 
Hamaray Nabi pak nay yah duaain parhi hain aur inn main kahain par bhi yah naheen kaha gia kah main nay iss ko paar kar wa dia hay ….
1- Abu Hurairah said: The Prophet, peace be upon him, prayed in one of the funeral prayers: Allahumma anta Rubbuha wa ant khalaqtaha wa anta razaqtaha wa ant hadaytaha lil lslam wa anta qabadata ruha-ha wa anta alamu bisirriha wa 'alaniyatiha. Ji’nashuf’ala-hafaghfir laha zanbaha “Oh Allah ! You are her Sustainer, You are her Creator, You provided her with sustenance, guided her to Islam, caused her to die, and You best know her secret and public life. We plead to You on her behalf to forgive her sins.”
-2- Wa’ilah ibn al-Asqa reported: “The Prophet, peace be upon him, led us in a funeral prayer for a man from among the Muslims. I heard him saying: Allahumma inna fulana ibna fulan fi zhimatika wa habla jawaraka, fa-qihu min fitnatal qabri wa azhabin nar wa anta ahlal wafa’ wal haq, allahumma faghfirlahu war-rahmhufa innaka antal ghafurur Raheem. ‘O Allah! So-and-so, son of so-and-so, is under Your protection and mercy, so protect him from the trial of the grave and the torture of Hell Fire. You are the guardian of the truthful and the faithful. OAllah! Forgive him and be merciful to him, as You are the Most Merciful, Most Forgiving’.” Narrated by Ahmad and Abu Daw’ud.
-3- ’ Awf ibn Malik reported: “I heard the Prophet, peace be upon him, while offering a funeral prayer, say: Allahumma-ghfir lahu war-rhamhu wa’fu anhu wa ‘afahu wa akrim nuzulahu wa wassi’ mudkhalahu waghsilhu bi-ma’ ind wa thalj wa barad wa naqi minal khataya kama yunaqi athaubu danis minad danas wa abdilhu daran khairan min darihi wa ahlan khairan min ahlihi wa zaujan khairan min zaujihi wa qih fitnatal qabr wa azhaban nar. ‘O Allah! Forgive him, have mercy on him, pardon him, heal him, be generous to him, cause his entrance to be wide and comfortable, wash him with the most pure and clean water, and purify him from sins as a white garment is washed clean of dirt. Give him in exchange a home better than his home (on earth) and a family better than his family, and a wife better than his wife, and protect him from the trial of the grave and the torture of Hell Fire’.” This is narrated by Muslim.
-4- It is reported from Abu Hurairah that the Prophet, peace be upon him, offered a funeral prayer and said: Allahummaghfir lihayatina wa mayatina wa saghirina wa kahirina wa zhakirina wa unthana. Allahumma man ahyatahu minna fa-ahyahu 'alal Islam wa man tawafthu minna fa-tawafthu 'ala iman. Allahumma la tahrimna ajrahu wa la tudalana ba’dahu. “O Allah! Forgive our living, our dead, our young, our old, our males and our females, those of us who are present, and those who are absent. O Allah! Whomsoever among us You keep to live, make him to live in Islam, and whomsoever You cause to die, let him die in faith. O Allah! Do not deprive us of our reward for (supplicating for) him, and cause us not to go astray after him.” This is narrated by Ahmad and the other Sunan books. (Authentic canonical collections of hadith)
Agar mayaat kay sath batain kar kay infact iss key wakalaat kar kay he uss ko paar kar wa daina tha to inn duaaon key zaroorat he naheen honi chahiye thi ? (nauzbillah)
Aur waisay bhi agar Inshaan Naiko kaar hoga to khudbakhud uss kay munh say yah alfaaz nikal jaain gaiy aur uss ko kahnay key zaroorat he naheen hay leekan agar gunah gaar hay to who yah alfaaz ada he naheen kar pay ga chahay jitney peer sb. Akhtahay ho jain !
Baqi Rasool-e-Pak aur unn kay batay hoye rastay par tou hum sub ko zaroor chalna chahiye leekan ghari gharai ahadith par amal kar kay gunah gaar naheen banana chahiye ….Baqi ka Illam Allah he bahat janta hay …..
Re: ► Murday Key Wakalat ◄
Above Hadith is narrated by Ahmad Ibn Hambal, Abu Dawud, Ibn Majah, at-Tayalisi, and al-Hakim who said it is according to the standards of Bukhari and Muslim. This text is the text of Ahmad, all text between brackets is from the other narrators and other narrations of Ahmad.
It is in Hadith - Narrated Anas bin Malik : Allah’s Apostle ( صلى الله عليه و آله وسلم ) said, “When (Allah’s - سبحانہ و تعا لی) slave is put in his grave and his companions return and he even hears their footsteps, two angels come to him and make him sit and ask, ‘What you used to say about this person (i.e. Prophet Muhammad - صلى الله عليه و آله وسلم - by showing his picture)?’ The faithful Believer will say, ‘I testify that he is Allah’s ( سبحانہ و تعا لی) ‘Abd’ and His Apostle -صلى الله عليه و آله وسلم ).’ Then they will say to him, ‘Look at your place in the Hell Fire; Allah ( سبحانہ و تعا لی) has given you a place in Paradise instead of it.’ So he will see both his places.” (Qatada said, “We were informed that his grave would be made spacious.” Then Qatada went back to the narration of Anas who said ; ) Whereas a hypocrite or a non-believer will be asked, “What did you use to say about this man.” He will reply, “I do not know; but I used to say what the people used to say.” So they will say to him, “Neither did you know nor did you take the guidance.” Then he will be hit with iron hammers once, that he will send such a cry as everything near to him will hear, except Jinns and human beings. (Bukhari - Volume 2, Book 23, number 456).
It is in Quran ‘ Nor or the living and the dead alike, Allah (SWT) surely will make hear to whoever He will like. O’ Prophet (
), you cannot make those hear who are in (steeped darkness like that of) graves. (Al-Fater – 22).
**22. **Nor are (alike) the living (believers) and the dead (disbelievers). Verily, Allah makes whom He will hear, but you cannot make hear those who are in graves.
**23. **You (O Muhammad:saw2: ) are only a warner (i.e. your duty is to convey Allah’s Message to mankind but the guidance is in Allah’s Hand).
Jub Rasool-e-Pak ko Allah nay yah kah dia tou tou Tahir Ul Qadri koun hay murday key wakalat karnay walla ?
Agar aap Quran ko naheen Manti tou main sirf aap kay haq main dua he kar sakta hoon Allah aap ko seedhay rastay par chalnay kay toufeeq ata farmay (ameen)
**
Jub Rasool-e-Pak apni baat unn ko naheen sunwa saktay to Tahir Ul Qadri koun hay murday key wakalat karnay walla ? **
Agar aap Quran ko naheen Manti tou main sirf aap kay haq main dua he kar sakta hoon Allah aap ko seedhay rastay par chalnay kay toufeeq ata farmay (ameen)
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Re: ► Murday Key Wakalat ◄
ThE OnE N OnLy mE,
I agree that we must seek guidance from Hadith too. Could you please tell me if those hadiths which is quoted by you is authenticate hadiths and could you provide any reference where Prophet Mohammad PBUH done same as Tahir Ul Qadri doing in video uploaded at post#1.
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How on earth can this be correct?
No one is allowed to do sajda except Allah ko.
Allah hum subko hidayat day.
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Re: ► Murday Key Wakalat ◄
I don declare myself as Alim e deen so i don point finngers on any personality,whom i don know,i don hv engough knowledge to condemm him…im n ot a learnet one,i try to research for answers as i did,…and still searching for more answers,i dont believe in making a decision,or making a mindset just by watching vdos…im not a die heart follower of tahir ul haq shahb,i hv lisnened his lectures on milad e Nabi:saw2:…and find them quite informative…
*2- Wa’ilah ibn al-Asqa reported: “The Prophet, peace be upon him, led us in a funeral prayer for a man from among the Muslims. I heard him saying: Allahumma inna fulana ibna fulan fi zhimatika wa habla jawaraka, fa-qihu min fitnatal qabri wa azhabin nar wa anta ahlal wafa’ wal haq, allahumma faghfirlahu war-rahmhufa innaka antal ghafurur Raheem. *‘O Allah! So-and-so, son of so-and-so, is under Your protection and mercy, so protect him from the trial of the grave and the torture of Hell Fire. You are the guardian of the truthful and the faithful. OAllah! Forgive him and be merciful to him, as You are the Most Merciful, Most Forgiving’.” Narrated by Ahmad and Abu Daw’ud.
from the above mentioned hadees(by u) wht do u extract ???taht saying like this is a sunnah:saw2:after that its up to ALLAH subhanaotallah to grant someone dead mercy,we can only make dua,but the commad to grant mercy is soley on ALLAK PAK…it dosent mean that we stop asking for forgivenes from ALLAH pak for the person living or dead…then i think we should not offer any ayats or duas on grave,thinking that it wont help…
i believe in Quran as a MUslim,but i hv to look for detailed answers through sunnah:saw2: the one hadees u hv quoted …i don call any one by bad name because im not on that level to condem,im not in the status to call someone’s iman weak..its upon ALLAH..**ALLAH knows best..may ALLAH guide all…
**
about the ghari huyi hadees,i have read this hadees on different sites to confirm, read the post of mr shahbax he also mentioned this hadees…NO MUSLIM CAN MAKE HADEES MY HIM OR HERSELF PLZ CORRECT UR SELF…
mr sannan im a muslim as u are,by fiqh im sunni,ibelieve in ALLAH,PROPHET MUHAMMAD:saw2:as u do,…we should seek answers rather then making a disgraceful comments on others..
Re: ► Murday Key Wakalat ◄
ThE OnE N OnLy mE,
I agree that we must seek guidance from Hadith too. Could you please tell me if those hadiths which is quoted by you is authenticate hadiths and could you provide any reference where Prophet Mohammad PBUH done same as Tahir Ul Qadri doing in video uploaded at post#1.
i would rather request u to confirm by urself for ur own satisfaction.......
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Dr.Tahir-ul-Qadri never allowed anyone in his life to do Sajda & Prostration ! - YouTube
Re: ► Murday Key Wakalat ◄
Afoos kai sath kehna perhta hai kai app ko tho religious guftagu kai adab bhi nai maloom..appka baat karnai ka terqa appki sahksiyat ko reflect karaha hai…
jab QURANI VERSES ko quote kiya jata hai atho appko mallom hoga kai har ayat ka aik background hota hai shaan e nazool jisai kaha jata hai kai …takai better understanding ho kai kiss waqth kaha gaya kiyn kaha gaya…
above mein jo appnai baat kahi hai appko andaza hai kai app kiya farma rahai hain…**YAHN ADAB O AHTARAM KA KHAYAL rakha jana lazim hai,app ko kis nai kehdiya kai jab nabi e kareem:saw2:ALLAH PAK sai appni baat nai manwa saktai,woh tho ALLAH kai mehboob hain,Muhammad …hum tho nabi e kareem kai waseelai sai dua mangtein hain takai hamari duayein jald qabool hoon…Allah appnai mehboob ki baat rad nai kiya karta…that is my iman…
**
i consider myself as student not ALIM im still in the process of research…
Re: ► Murday Key Wakalat ◄
**
A Good Read..
**Praise be to Allaah.
Ijtihaad in Islam means striving to understand the shar’i ruling on the basis of shar’i evidence. It is obligatory for the one who is able to do it, because Allaah, may He be glorified and exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):
“So ask of those who know the Scripture, if you know not”
[al-Nahl 16:43, al-Anbiya’ 21:7].
The one who is able to engage in ijtihaad can find out the truth for himself, but he must have vast knowledge and study the shar’i texts, and understand the guidelines on deriving rulings and be aware of the views of the scholars, lest he fall into that which is contrary to Islam. Some people are seekers of knowledge (taalib al-‘ilm) who have only a little knowledge, but they set themselves up as mujtahids, so you see them acting on the basis of ahaadeeth which are general in meaning but have other reports which make them specific, or they act on the basis of abrogated ahaadeeth and do not know of the texts that abrogate them, or they act on the basis of ahaadeeth which the scholars are unanimously agreed are different from their apparent meanings, but they are unaware of this scholarly consensus.
Such a person is in grave danger. The Mujtahid must have knowledge of the shar’i evidence and knowledge of the basic principles (usool) and scholarly views which, if he knows them, he will be able to derive rulings based on that evidence without unwittingly going against scholarly consensus. If these conditions are met in his case, then he may engage in ijtihaad. Ijtihaad may be focused on a narrow area, so a person may research one issue of knowledge and examine it thoroughly, and become a mujtahid with regard to that issue, or he could focus on one aspect of knowledge, such as issues having to do with tahaarah (purification), which he researches and examines, and thus becomes a mujtahid in that area. End quote.
Fatwa of Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen, signed by him.
islamQA.com
end of comments from my side...
Re: ► Murday Key Wakalat ◄
i would rather request u to confirm by urself for ur own satisfaction.......
My own satisfaction:
Ik sajda jise to giran samjhta hy
Hazar sajdo se deta hy nijaat.