Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)

^ Credibility?

ye kis janwar ka naam hai bhaiyya? :halo:

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Folks, I realize there are unanswered questions in this thread, so feel free to continue this discussion. However, pls bring the temperature down a notch. Cut the smearing. If you have already made your point, then you don't necessarily have to get the last word in.

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Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)

yeh

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tell exactly unanswered questions...

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One of them is the references I asked for :frowning:

Conned by the saleswoman!
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So this was whole , in my humble opinion, but brother , you again and again come to muavia(ra) ... it means that you accept the 3 caliphs and their virtues ... am i right or not ?
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I merely said opponents of Ali [as] that also includes ayesha and talha whose crime to rise against the authority of the caliph was no less than that of muawiah only less successful
Abu Bakr[r] and Umar[r] I consider much better in every way than uthman who was a bidaati and the main reason why the revolution took place

also i am not very impressed by the crocodile tears that muwiayah shed to show his piety to others
so " Allah made muawiyah a ruler " same excuse that uthman used ?..... where is the principle of consultation and shura now?why was it needed in the case of the first 2 caliphs but not in their case?

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[quote]
So point is , despite of his wars of ali(ra) , *he accepted his greatness **and virtues ...... **there was no match for ali(ra) *..... at that time...... the real reason was actually *the murder of usman(ra) *, ummayyad leader , which blew the situation into fire.
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if he accepted his greatness why didnt he accept his advice on issue of murder
Umar[ra] to whom likes of muawiyah are no match regularly accepted his advice ? was muawiyah smarter than him?
...
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And secondly ali(ra) dismissed **all the governors of usman(ra) including muavia(ra) while **abdullah ibne abbas(ra) keep on shouting plz. do not do this ..... they will get a plea to stand against you ...but unfortunately he did not listen to him and ibne abbas lleft him and went to makkah in anger.......
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he left but returned to participate in battles against muawiyah while his brother Qutham b abbas [ra] governed makkah

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Actually muavia(ra) quite often said a hadees of prophet(pbuh) that once he abulated(wazu) to prophet(pbuh) and he said , muavia(ra) one day you will be a ruler , so do patience... so muavia(ra) used to said that i firmly believe in thesewordins
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:) offcourse he did ...fabricating ahadith was his favourite pasttime either on his authority or if more weight is required by those he bought or intimidated

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And yes , one more thing, muavia(ra) never used to call himself a khalifa rashideen ... he himself call him a *" king" **as umar(ra) also used to call him **but he also used to say that , after me you will see another "kings" also !!!!!!! *

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khulafa-e-rasheeden is a designation that was coined much later than his time ...so your argument is meaningless...

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Who are the 12 Caliphs? According to Dawa, Mauwiya was not a Caliph but a King. That leaves 7 Caliphs. Who are they?

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^
nairangee-e-siyaasat-e-dauraan tou dekhiye
manzil unhen milee jo shareek-e-safar na thay

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For instance if we count Mawiyah as Caliph then what about Yazid? Those who believe Mawiyah as a Caliph then for them Yazid must be Caliph

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Sir ji yahi dunia hai :) Jin ko kuch nahi pata tha woh sab kuch ban gaye ....

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Brother .. i suggest you just close your volume of **“Dastan-e-Ameer Hamza”… **take a **sip of a coffee-cup **open up any athentic history book from any source and read about the First marraige of prophet(pbuh) with khadiga(ra) at age of **25 **years… and on the **Walima ceremony **… the person present that afterwards accepted islam was **"abu bakr , the great (ra) **… even ali(ra) was born after 6 years when this **Walima **happened … and then tell us who was **“Sharek-e-safar” **or not !!!.. OK

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array bhai Mian chaltey chaltey yeah tu bata dein kay who did recite the Nikkah of Muhammad e Mustafa with bibi khadija?

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Well ... alll shia brothers here have a "Wazeefa" of 12 - imams hadees **and hadees about the **fatima(ra) angriness......

So , i also quote from the same writer , bukhari *... the same book shaeeh bukhari for which you have a *"tasbeeh " or "Wazeefa" **of these 2 hadees.... **hope you also accept this !!!!!!!

1.Narrated Amr bin Al-Aas (radiallahu anhu): “The Prophet of Allah (sallallahu alaihe wa-sallam) deputed me to lead the army of Dat as-Salasil. I came to him and said: “Who is the most beloved person to you?' He said: “Aa'isha” I asked “Amongst men?” He said: “Her father (Abu Bakr)...” [Saheeh Al-Bukharee v.5, no.14]

2.“There is no one among the people who has been more generous to me with his life and his property than Abu Bakr ibn Abi Quhaafa (radiallahu anhu) and if I was to take a bosom friend, I would take Abu Bakr as my bosom friend. But, the friendship of Islam is better. Block off every door in this Masjid except the door of Abu Bakr” Saheeh Al-Bukharee]

3.Abu Ya'la (radiallahu anhu) also narrates that Anas ibn Malik said: “They beat the Prophet (sallallahu alaihe wa-sallam) one day until he lost consciousness. Abu Bakr stood and began calling out: 'Woe to you! Do you kill a man just for saying my Lord is Allah? The people asked one another: “Who is this?” And they said: “That is Ibn Abi Quhaafa the madman” [Saheeh Al-Bukhari (Hasan)]

4.Narrated Anas ibn Malik (radiallahu anhu): “The Prophet (sallallahu alaihe wa-sallam) was on Mount Uhud with Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman when the mountain trembled. He (sallallahu alaihe wa-sallam) said: “Stay still, Uhud for upon you are a Prophet, a siddique and two martyrs.” [Saheeh Bukharee]

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According to whom Dawa? Bukhari? Do we care about your Sahih-Bukhari?

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I was shocked to see the hadeez of Shimmer z Joshin (Killer of Imam Hussain, the one who used his dragger to cut the throat of grandson of Prophet from behind) he narrated a hadeez in Sahi bukkari. How could I believe the authenticity of this book if it got narrator like Shimmer.

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^ Reminds me of die hard Christians proving their trion God with lame references from Saheeh Bible.

The serial hadith fabricators of Ummayads have really succeeded in their mission. I have to agree man.

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**Mashallah !!! **Then brother , why care for only ahadees of **12 - caliphs **and fatima(ra) !!!

I am not saying bukhari is **100 % correct **, because to err is human … but even the staunch critics of islam from west give it a rank not less than **90 % … **and you say we do not care about bukhari…Ok , leave **Bukhari **aside … I can also show you the large no. of ahadees from **muslim, nisai, tirmazi, maja , bahki , darqutni , musnad hanbal **and list goes on … about the **virtues and merits of Abu bakr(ra) **… !! so will you deny all of these books !!!

What attributes would...
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Did that person **(abu talib) **was present at the death of prophet(pbuh) and **candidate **of caliphate !!! :smiley:

I am saying about abu bakr(ra) that he was one of the **best friend of prophet(pbuh) from early childhood and also present at his weddieng ceremony **and ali(ra) was born after **6 years **!!! but marble bhai sahab **farmatai **hain kha … Manzil mili unhai jo **Shareeka-i-Safar **na thai… A joke of the Day , I think…

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Then brother, what to say about the shias best hadees book **Al-Kafi **…lets look at a **Grand Ayutullahs and Hijutullahs **, which according to **Rooh Allah **Khoemeini , niether sllep , nor tired , neither do the least mistake in fiqah matters , saying about shias most **Authentic **book … once again i repeated it …

Al-kafi

Content
Of the basic traditions**, 5,072 are considered sound **(sahih) by scholars, i.e. first category; 144 are regarded as good (Arabic: Hasan), second category; 178 are held to be trustworthy (Arabic: muwaththaq), third category; 302 are adjudged to be strong (Arabic: qawi), fourth category; and **9,484 are considered weak **(Arabic: da’if), fifth category [1].

[edit] Shi’a viewThe book has come under criticism throughout history. For example, Shaqyh al-Saduq, the famous Shi’a scholar, claimed that it consisted of mostly weak narrations. Sayyid al-Khoie points this out in his “Mu’jam Rijaal al-Hadith”, or “Collection of Men of Narrations”, in which he states:

“ **Shaqyh al-Sadook did not regard the majority of the traditions in al-Kafi to be Sahih (truthful) **أنّ الشيخ الصدوق : قدّس سرّه : لم يكن يعتقد صحّة جميع مافي الكافي [2]
”

**Grand Ayatollah **Abul-Qassim Khoei, a 20th century Shi’a twelver Islamic scholar states, in his Mu’jam:

“ **There is within it (Al-Kafi) traditions, who’s chains of narration contain (known) ignorants, liars and fabricators **لانّ فيها مرسلات وفيها روايات في اسنادها مجاهيل، ومن إشتهر بالوضع والكذب،[2]
”

and there are yet another **Grand ayutullahs and hijatullahs ** who say about it as …

Muhammad Sadiq Al-Sadr said:

“The Shia are unanimous as to the four books (Al-Kafi, Al-Tahzeeb, Al-Istibsar, Al-Faqih) being accepted and all the narrations in them are accurate.” (”Kitab Al-Shia”, The Book of Shia, p.127)

Sharaf Al Din Musawi said:
“Al-Kafi, Al-Tahzeeb, Al-Istibsar, and Mun La Yahdu-Ruhu Al-Faqih are Mutawatirah (100% accurate) and agreed on the accuracy of its contents (the Hadiths), and Al-Kafi is the oldest, greatest, best and the most accurate one of them.” (The book of Al-Muraja’aat, Muraj’ah number 110)

Brother !!! really i am confused … to consider which **“ayatullahs” **more **“Correct " **because according **to Rooh Allah **Khoeminie " You cannot expect even the least mistake from our **fuqahs and Ayatullahs **”
“Al-hakoomata_i_ Islamia” pg .141

So , brother i am really confused about To **follow which Ayatullahs **… every one has its own tune but yet they cannot do the least mistake as they neither sllep , not tired and everything from past and present is revealed on them … :smiley:

So now you are saying to leave **Bukhari **and follow Al-kafi having 40% purity level !!!LOL

If out of 4 books , the best book has such a **GREAt **purity level … then what about the other **3 books !!!**And if this a **matter **of ahadees , then what can you expect of **shia sources of history **which have niether sanad , matan and narrator… can they go into the left side of the number line , if possible !!!