Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
actually , the people of iran *were **wondered **that how these **tribelmen *, **camel riders **and **buddhu **can come over the world **supreme power **and **2500 years empire... it was beyond thier *mental **limits... so in battle field they cannot **parallel **to arabs ,... what they did is **to curse **all the sahabas specially those who took part in iran conquest like **umar(ra) , saad bin abi waqas(ra) and khalid bin walid(ra) *.... lets look at this ashtonishing facts......
In the Iranian city of Keyshan, there is a street by the name of Firouzi. By the side of this road lies the ground of Firouzi which holds the tomb of Abu Lu’lu al-Majusi the **killer of Umar. The Shiite Iranians call him “Baba Shujahudeen” or the “brave of religion” and they present their respect and condolences to him on the day he died. By giving the attribute of “Baba ***Shujahudeen” *
I ca ask you why ?????????????
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The same is the reason behind the exaltation of the descendents of Imam Hussein(ra) solely, and not of the progeny of Imam Hassan(ra). This is because the descendents of Hussein are their own *Persian brethren **as Imam Hussein(ra) was married to **ShahrBano **the daughter of Yazgard who was the last Persian Empire. **Shiite source: Bihaarul Anwar 45:329] *
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
[quote]
prophet(pbuh) completely left it on **ummah **to decide who is caliph and when abu bakr(ra) chose umar(ra) , the next , a group of people came with a complaining about umar(ra) strict behaviour , abu bakr(ra) rose with anger , he was sick and lying in bed, and replied, By God , i have chosen the the "most" appropriate person among you.
[/quote]
Didn't Allah tell his Prophet [pbuh] how his Ummah would be scattered into bits and pieces on the very matter of his successorship. If that was the case, which WAS the case, then according to your standards, why on earth did Prophet [pbuh] not chose his successor? Didn't he know the "most" suitable person to lead his Ummah like Abu Bakar knew when he was reigning? Or you're implying that Abu Bakar was politically shrewd than Prophet since he chose the "most" appropriate person while Prophet [pbuh] couldn't make this decision in his times?
And by the way, how could Prophet [pbuh] leave such an important and crucial matter on the masses when it proved to be the apple of discord amongst his companians?
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
Hold on a minute, apply brakes. . .take a deep breath and then listen:
Relax your mind and then read what different scholars [from both sides] have to say about the concept of Taqqiyyah. Analyse and do its critique, draw some inferences, base your questions on the historical instances. Come back and then discuss.
You have no idea what Taqqiyah means and you label every single Shia presentation as a manifestation of Taqqiyyah. Uffff, confused soul!
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
And by the way, how could Prophet [pbuh] leave such an important and crucial matter on the masses when it proved to be the apple of discord amongst his companians?
Oh please, there was no difference among the Sahabas and every single Sahabi took the bayat on the hands of Hazrat Abu Bakar including Hazrat Ali r.a.
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
Brother I wish it was like that. It would have been the best thing to happen to Muslims after the Prophet [pbuh]. It sounds sweet but it is nowhere near truth. The histroy tells us exactly the opposite.
Just check what was the stance of the head of Ansar, {probably Sa'ad bin Abada or Abu abada Ansari, I dont remember the name correctly}, what did he say at Saqifaa and what was his and his supporters' conduct in subsequent years. I hope you also regard the head of Ansar as one of the respected companians of the Prophet [pbuh] and include him among those [infact "ALL" as you say] who paid allegiance to Abu Bakar.
Moreover, just check in history that according to Sunni standards, when did 'Ali pay allegiance to Abu Bakar after he assumed caliphate?
Check the fight of Malik bin Nuwera and his tribe who refused to pay allegiance to Abu Bakar since they were excepting 'Ali to be the head as per Prophetic instructions after the Hajj. The same Malik was later labelled as denier of Zakat.
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
[QUOTE]
Just check what was the stance of the head of Ansar, {probably Sa'ad bin Abada or Abu abada Ansari, I dont remember the name correctly}, what did he say at Saqifaa and what was his and his supporters' conduct in subsequent years. I hope you also regard the head of Ansar as one of the respected companians of the Prophet [pbuh] and include him among those [infact "ALL" as you say] who paid allegiance to Abu Bakar.
[/QUOTE]
They all paid allegiance to Hazrat Abu Bakar r.a including Hazrat Saad r.a.
[QUOTE]
Moreover, just check in history that according to Sunni standards, when did 'Ali pay allegiance to Abu Bakar after he assumed caliphate?
[/QUOTE]
On the 2nd day.
[QUOTE]
Check the fight of Malik bin Nuwera and his tribe who refused to pay allegiance to Abu Bakar since they were excepting 'Ali to be the head as per Prophetic instructions after the Hajj. The same Malik was later labelled as denier of Zakat.
[/QUOTE]
Anyone who rusfused to paid zakat, became a murtad and al the Sahabas did Jihad against them.
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
does not change quran though does it? does not change what Allah has asked us to do, so who did what who became the khalifa and who did not, has zero bearing on religion as far as I am concerned.
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
I asked you to check in history not to provide your opinion bro, which is based on conjecture.
[quote]
On the 2nd day.
[/quote]
Muda'ii sust gavaah chust.
A bulk of Sunni historians say that 'Ali paid allegiance after the death of Sayeda Fatimah. Some say he paid allegiance after six months. Can I ask, from where did you come up with the idea that 'Ali paid allegiance on the second day?
[quote]
Anyone who rusfused to paid zakat, became a murtad and al the Sahabas did Jihad against them.
[/quote]
Zakat was supposed to be paid to the ruler who would then distribute it. So after the Prophet [pbuh], Abu Bakar became the head of the state. When governmental officials went to collect zakat from Malik's tribe and told him that Abu Bakar sent them, he refused to pay to them because he was expecting 'Ali to be the Caliph. It was then Khalid bin Walid drew his sword and killed Malik. Malik [ra] wasn't a denier of Zakat. Also check how Umar tried to punish Khalid bin Walid for his wrongdoing but was stopped by Abu Bakar.
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
still does not change one iota of the religion revealed to the prophet. rest is all interpretations and guidance needed for new situations…and consensus on that today is as possible and/or as impossible… whether we had Mr. Abu Bakr or Mr. Ali as the first khalifah.
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
So then you should have posted the referense from ‘al-shia wal sunnia’ because thats where you found them. You posted them here without first confirming their existence in the shia books. Which I can say for atleast the nahjul balagha sermon, are completely false. You later went on to post other sermons from the nahjul balagha for whatever reason which had nothing to do with the original fake sermon u posted. But have still failed to provide me with the sermon name of that quote u posted from nahjul balagha regarding Hazrat Ali a.s. praise of Abu bakr. Instead of tellin me the sermon number from a book you already have, you are telling me to go buy the book myself!!! Am I the onle one to whom this strikes absurd. I strongly suggest you check you sources first before posting them here. It would save you the this kind of embarrassment in the future!!!
[As i have said before, you people should really learn about the shia faith from shia books and not from these so called “Authorities on shias” ]
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
[FONT='Times New Roman']Ok this was a conspircy of the Jews was to cause the companions (R. A) of Rasulullaah (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) to fight with each other and allege that Hadhrat Abu Bakr Siddiq (radhiyAllaahu anhu), who became caliph after Rasulullaah (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam), had usurped caliphate forcibly and as such he was not caliph, because Rasulullaah (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) had nominated Hadhrat Ali (radhiyAllaahu anhu) as caliph.
[FONT='Times New Roman']A question of great importance arises that when Rasulullaah (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) passed away, why did Hadhrat Ali (radhiyAllaahu anhu) himself not say that Rasulullaah (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) had appointed him caliph or that Allaah had appointed him Imam. He used to offer prayers under the leadership of Hadhrat Umar (radhiyAllaahu anhu) and during the caliphate period of Hadhrat Umar (radhiyAllaahu anhu) under his leadership, and after that and during the caliphate of Hadhrat Uthmaan (radhiyAllaahu anhu), he always co‑operated and never claimed to be the successor and caliph of Rasulullaah (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam). Take note that Hadhrat Ali (radhiyAllaahu anhu) does not declare this calim. Yet these people say that he was appointed as caliph. The claimant is silent, he says nothing, but the witness is so active that he is saying time and again that Rasulullaah (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) had appointed Hadhrat Ali (radhiyAllaahu anhu) as his caliph. This does not appeal to wisdom and intelligence. Had Rasulullaah (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) or Allaah appointed Hadhrat Ali (radhiyAllaahu anhu) as caliph, he could have at least once, in his life, declared that he was Allaah's appointee. He used to offer prayers under the leadership of all the three caliphs (9) and fully co‑operated with them, but these people deny this saying that Rasulullaah (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) had appointed Hadhrat Ali (radhiyAllaahu anhu) as caliph and his caliphate is lawful and justified. Some allege that he was afraid to do so. This argument degrades the status of so brave a soldier of Islaam as Hadhrat Ali(R.A.)
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
[quote]
I asked you to check in history not to provide your opinion bro, which is based on conjecture.
[/quote]
[FONT='Times New Roman']In Saqeefa Bani Sa'adah, when the Ansaar intended to appoint a caliph from among themselves, had anybody raised the matter that it was incorrect to make a decision when Rasulullaah (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) has already appointed Hadhrat Ali (radhiyAllaahu anhu) as caliph? Laters, when a few migrated companions (radhiyAllaahu anhum) reached there and said that the caliph should be from among the muhaajireen (migratees) and the Ansars kept silent, nobody stood up and said that none from the new comers should be the caliph because Rasulullaah (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) had already given the caliphate to Hadhrat Ali (radhiyAllaahu anhu). If this was true. This would have been the best place to say so. Even at this golden opportunity, no one did so.
[FONT='Times New Roman']With these facts a researching student is forced to come to the correct conclusion that Rasulullaah (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) had not nominated his successor.
[FONT='Times New Roman']
[FONT='Times New Roman']The Islaamic system of government is the system of Shura (consultation). The issue of appointing Hadhrat Ali (radhiyAllaahu anhu) at Gadeer‑I‑Khum is no more than a fabrication. The wish concerning the bequeath of his caliphate also shows that no declaration with regard to anybody's caliphate was made at the bank of the pond at Khum.
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
Hazrat Ali ra. continuously reaffirmed that his caliphate was based on the caliphate of first three Caliphs. In a letter, he wrote,
Those, who had nominated Hadhrat Abu Bakr (radhiyAllaahu anhu), after that Hadhrat Umar (radhiyAllaahu anhu) and then after them Hadhrat Uthmaan (R.A) as caliphs, have also nominated me as caliph and on the same terms and conditions as for all of them.[FONT='WP TypographicSymbols'][FONT=Courier New]@
[FONT='WP TypographicSymbols']
[FONT='WP TypographicSymbols'] This leaves no option for anybody to adopt any other course. Hadhrat Ali (radhiyAllaahu anhu) himself does not claim that he was appointed as Caliph, so all this about Hadhrat Ali (radhiyAllaahu anhu) having been nominated was and is a concoction of the Shias.
23.P43
Nihajal Balaga, V‑3, p1, published "Egypt".
Re: Muharram Starts!!! Some Important Questions to Ask (Exclusive)
[FONT='Times New Roman']His honourable title "Siddiq" was given by Rasulullaah (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam). Addressing him, said, O' Abu Bakr! You are "Siddiq"
FONT='Times New Roman'.
[FONT='Times New Roman']
[FONT='Times New Roman'][FONT='Times New Roman']Imam Jafar Sadiq (RA) says, "Abu Bakr" is Siddiq, is Siddiq, is Siddiq and he, who does not recognise him as Siddiq, Allaah Almighty may not allow him to be true to this world as well as in the other world.
[FONT='Times New Roman'][FONT='Times New Roman']
[FONT='Times New Roman']FONT='Times New Roman'.
[FONT='Times New Roman'][FONT='Times New Roman']
[FONT='Times New Roman'][FONT='Times New Roman'][FONT='Times New Roman']Imam Baqar (RA) says that when Allaah Almighty ordered Rasulullaah (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) for migration, he also asked him to take Abu Bakr (radhiyAllaahu anhu) along with him, FONT='Times New Roman'.
[FONT='Times New Roman']
[FONT='Times New Roman'][FONT='Times New Roman'] Hadhrat Ali(R.A) says, "Rasulullaah (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) said to me, people would take the oath of allegiance for Abu Bakr"
[FONT='Times New Roman']FONT='Times New Roman'
[FONT='Times New Roman'][FONT='Times New Roman']
[FONT='Times New Roman'][FONT='Times New Roman'][FONT='Times New Roman']Hadhrat Ali Murtaza (R.A) used to offer prayers as follower of Hadhrat Abu Bakr
[FONT='Times New Roman'][FONT='Times New Roman']FONT='Times New Roman'.
[FONT='Times New Roman'][FONT='Times New Roman'][FONT='Times New Roman']
[FONT='Times New Roman'][FONT='Times New Roman'][FONT='Times New Roman'][FONT='Times New Roman']Hadhrat Abu Bakr(R.A) along with Hadhrat Umar motivated Hadhrat Ali for marriage with Sayyiditina Fatima (Jalalul Ayoon, p‑111). The dowry of Sayyiditina Fatima Al Zohra (R.A) was given by Abu Bakr (R.A)
[FONT='Times New Roman'][FONT='Times New Roman'][FONT='Times New Roman']FONT='Times New Roman'.
[FONT='Times New Roman'][FONT='Times New Roman'][FONT='Times New Roman'][FONT='Times New Roman']
[FONT='Times New Roman'][FONT='Times New Roman'][FONT='Times New Roman'][FONT='Times New Roman'] Sayyiditina Fatima Al Zohra (R.A) died during the period of Hadhrat Abu Bakr (radhiyAllaahu anhu) and the wife of Hadhrat Abu Bakr (radhiyAllaahu anhu) had given bath to Sayyiditina Fatima
[FONT='Times New Roman'][FONT='Times New Roman'][FONT='Times New Roman']FONT='Times New Roman'.
[FONT='Times New Roman'][FONT='Times New Roman'][FONT='Times New Roman'][FONT='Times New Roman']
[FONT='Times New Roman'][FONT='Times New Roman'][FONT='Times New Roman'][FONT='Times New Roman']Rasulullaah (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam), in his last time, had nominated Hadhrat Abu Bakr (radhiyAllaahu anhu) as Imam in Rasulullaah (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam's) place (Nisikh‑ul‑Tawarikh, V‑1, p‑547).