MQM brings ahead common man in polls: CJ

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: MQM brings ahead common man in polls: CJ

Lage raho ヾ(＠⌒ー⌒＠)ノ

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Re: MQM brings ahead common man in polls: CJ

*Rich class main third rate Ghunday peda naheen hotay
So they find them in middle class
*

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Re: MQM brings ahead common man in polls: CJ

“Rich class” meiN jo “Ghunday” peda hotey heiN, wo president ban jaatey heiN :hmmm:

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Re: MQM brings ahead common man in polls: CJ

or us Ghunday kee zamanat Altaf Bhai deytey heyn....!!

yad rehey, Zardari sahib ko namzad MQM ney kiyaa thaa....or woohi uskay asl zamanati heyn...

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Re: MQM brings ahead common man in polls: CJ

So you dont live in Karachi yourself:) Like I said, I lived and worked in Karachi for 5 years in the decade gone by, and lived there through the worst times, Musharraf era, May 12, Benazir assassination and countless other incidents. Im not saying Im more qualified than you, but when I tell you that MQM flag bearers were blocking roads, armed with guns on May 12, then I say it because I was a first hand witness to it. I was scheduled to fly out on the morning of May 12th for a couple of days, and the cab I was travelling in was stopped and barred from making it to the airport by an 'MQM checkpoint', not by ANP, not by PPP, not by the police.

[quote]

As for 12th May, MQM is throughout calling for investigation, so why PPP government is not starting investigation? I believe that all parties were involved in 12 may incident. MQM blames PPP and ANP, and others blame MQM, so what? Look at this video and you will think that people involved were PPP and ANP:

[/quote]

You cant be that misinformed, can you? MQM is a partner in govt with PPP, and you think PPP will let anyone investigate MQM?
As for videos, did you manage to see any of the live videos shot by Aaj TV, Geo Tv and others? Remember when Talat Hussain was fired upon at his Aaj TV offices by shooters who were captured wearing MQM flags around their heads? Dont tell me they were ANP guys pretending to be MQM.

[quote]

Or do you mean to say that Karachi folks are cowards? People of Karachi who did not got subdued by Ayub, Bhutto, BB or Nawaz, they are so coward that someone can vote on their behalf and they would keep quite? Do you think people of Karachi are like people outside Karachi, where thugs of PMLN, PPP, JI, JUI, ANP, etc can cast their votes without their consent and they would keep quite? In my opinion, if you think like this than you should get some treatment.

[/quote]

Karachi folks are as much a part of Pakistan as anyone else in this country. But you did not answer my question. If MQM issues a call for strike, and you wish to defy that strike, and go out to work, can you? Can you open up your shop in an area that has been marked by MQM?

You are repeatedly referring to the 'people of Karachi' as if they belong to some other country. I am not talking about the people of Karachi. Im simply stating first hand facts about MQM, which is a heavily armed criminal gang, calling itself a political party. This gang, along with waderas of PPP and goons of ANP have destroyed the peace and quiet of what was once a lovely city.

If MQM is a 'peaceful' party, then so is ANP, and so is PPP. (and pigs fly)

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Re: MQM brings ahead common man in polls: CJ

Aur corrupt middle class main jo **“Ganday” **peda hotay hain woh jism faroshi aur chandah khori kay baad Insaf kay chairman ban jatay hain .

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Re: MQM brings ahead common man in polls: CJ

[quote]
So you dont live in Karachi yourself Like I said, I lived and worked in Karachi for 5 years in the decade gone by, and lived there through the worst times, Musharraf era, May 12, Benazir assassination and countless other incidents. Im not saying Im more qualified than you, but when I tell you that MQM flag bearers were blocking roads, armed with guns on May 12, then I say it because I was a first hand witness to it. I was scheduled to fly out on the morning of May 12th for a couple of days, and the cab I was travelling in was stopped and barred from making it to the airport by an 'MQM checkpoint', not by ANP, not by PPP, not by the police.
[/quote]
I and all my siblings were born in Karachi. My brother, who with Canadian Nationality has option to live in Canada, still lives in Karachi. I visit Karachi regularly, almost every year. When I graduated, I also wanted to have job in Karachi, but discrimination against Karachiets even on jobs situated in Karachi forced me (and many like me) to move abroad. Anyhow, I have properties and investment in Karachi (~80 percent of my total assets are in Karachi) and intend to return there one day. I have 1000s of family members, relatives, and friends living in Karachi.

As for you being witness of May 12 and saw MQM flag bearers armed with guns blocking roads, than it is possible, as roads to airport on that day was marred with violence. MQM was in government. Being in government, they had to do something to save people from losing their lives travelling to airport and hence MQM may have tried to stop innocent civilians on this journey. You could not expect that from PPP, ANP (both were trying to create havoc in Karachi on that day), or inefficient police. Certainly MQM would not have stopped you if you were travelling to places other than airport, and their huge gathering on that day at Quaid-e-Azam Mazar is witness that they were not stopping people travelling.

It is obvious that you could not have witnessed what was happening at different places in Karachi, especially near airport. Anyhow, you were lucky that you encountered MQM men instead of ANP or PPP men, as then you could have got shot too.

Actually, knowing what was happening on way to airport, I think you should be thankful to MQM for stopping you. You should realise that even if you had reached airport there were no flights as most flights on that day got cancelled. On the other hand, if you were not stopped, you might have got killed on your way by ANP and PPP goons.

[quote]
You cant be that misinformed, can you? MQM is a partner in govt with PPP, and you think PPP will let anyone investigate MQM?

As for videos, did you manage to see any of the live videos shot by Aaj TV, Geo Tv and others? Remember when Talat Hussain was fired upon at his Aaj TV offices by shooters who were captured wearing MQM flags around their heads? Dont tell me they were ANP guys pretending to be MQM.
[/quote]

What you mean? MQM is partner in government but it is not up to MQM to start investigation. Such investigation is in the hands of federal government, and it is PPP who rule there. Sindh Chief Ministry and home ministry is also with PPP, so only they can start investigation. Even then MQM is demanding investigation blaming that culprits of 12[SUP]th[/SUP] May were PPP and ANP, still PPP is not starting the investigation. So ... why?

As for TV footage of AJJ, I saw that too. What I saw is that, AJJ TV only showed MQM firing, but did not show whom they were firing at and who were returning the fire. If AJJ TV was so unbiased then they should have shown both sides of the picture, but they did not. So, how can I just rely on bias footage? Now you want me to ignore all evidences against ANP and PPP, and concentrate on MQM, than my friend that is not going to happen.

[quote]
Karachi folks are as much a part of Pakistan as anyone else in this country. But you did not answer my question. If MQM issues a call for strike, and you wish to defy that strike, and go out to work, can you? Can you open up your shop in an area that has been marked by MQM?
[/quote]

You did not earlier asked the question you posted here neither the question is relevant. When a party gives call for strike, they rely on their supporters and when minority tries to disobey strike calls, things do become nasty, unless party is weak at the place. MQM do not give strike call in Lahore, do they? Anyhow, it did happened several times that ANP or PPP gave call for strike in Karachi and it was partly observed (especially when they had no backing from MQM), because they are weak, that is all.

Anyhow, our earlier talk was regarding boycotting the election that MQM did when military was controlling Karachi and MQM was getting persecuted. So, no one can say that people did not vote because they were scared of MQM. On the other hand, whenever MQM boycotted election, they never made call not to vote ... and even if MQM had made such call (for not voting), I do not think people of Karachi would not have voted if they wanted to vote.

[In Pakistani election, whenever MQM boycotted the election, they never asked people not to vote ... that is different attitude what other parties show, who when boycott election ask people not to vote. This only shows that while MQM do not intimidate voters, other parties do].

[quote]
You are repeatedly referring to the 'people of Karachi' as if they belong to some other country. I am not talking about the people of Karachi. Im simply stating first hand facts about MQM, which is a heavily armed criminal gang, calling itself a political party. This gang, along with waderas of PPP and goons of ANP have destroyed the peace and quiet of what was once a lovely city.
[/quote]

Now that is your impair thinking that when I say ‘people of Karachi’ I mean they belong to another country. Why you think that way?

You should understand that when I say people of Karachi, I mean people who are permanent resident of Karachi, especially those who consider Karachi as their home city wherever they are in the world and whatever happens to Karachi. They do not see Karachi as their Dubai or just think of taking something out of Karachi, but would like to give something to Karachi.

It does not mean, they consider Pakistan as another country but it means they consider themselves part of Pakistan because Karachi is part of Pakistan. It is just like people of Lahore, Hyderabad, Peshawar, Quetta, or Dhaka. People of all these cities are/were part of Pakistan because these cities were part of Pakistan. When Dhaka got separated from Pakistan, people of Dhaka who were part of Pakistan stop being part of Pakistan.

[quote]
If MQM is a 'peaceful' party, then so is ANP, and so is PPP. (and pigs fly)
[/quote]

Pakistan has many parties. These parties are PPP, MQM, PMLN, PMLQ, PMLF, ANP, TI, JI, JUI, JUP, JSQM, JWP, etc.

In my opinion, MQM is as peaceful a party as any Pakistani political party and is as much a terrorist party as any Pakistani political party.

Anyhow, things that make MQM different and unique from other parties are:

MQM chairman do not contest election or is greedy of any political post.
MQM leadership, all of them, are from middle class.
MQM has no inheritance in party hierarchy.
MQM voters and supports, rather every Pakistani, have access to party office holders all the time (be they in government or not)
MQM leadership are all educated (not with Jali degree but with real degrees).

MQM is not financially corrupt when in government.
MQM gives good governance when in power.
MQM do not believe on nepotism.
MQM is efficient in all their work
MQM is most organised party.

MQM fields candidates from workers and not because they are rich and can afford election
MQM do not sell their seats in Senate, NA or PA to highest bidder.
MQM as party bears all election costs of their candidates.
MQM members never become Lota.
MQM members show dedication in all their work
MQM helps poor and needy all over Pakistan without discrimination through their charity organisation KKF.

And so on.

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Re: MQM brings ahead common man in polls: CJ

okay wait a second.......is Sa1eem saying that MQM is not involved in Bhatta-khori?

really?

I must have mis-read something.......

really?

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Re: MQM brings ahead common man in polls: CJ

My judgement is from circumstantial evidence and not concrete evidence. Circumstantial evidence tells that if a party do not make money by corruption when they have all the chances due to being in office (power) then it is very unlikely that same party would be doing anything wrong to collect money outside office.

Anyhow, a party should be considered innocent until proven guilty (in court). What you think? :)

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Re: MQM brings ahead common man in polls: CJ

But Saleem there are reports in respect of misuse of CDGK funds in MK’s tenure and people like Naimatullah have been demanding audit for these funds.

Naimatullah demands audit of CDGK funds | The Nation

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Re: MQM brings ahead common man in polls: CJ

Lets dispense with the strawperson attacks. Just because CJ sahab said that MQM brings common man in polls does not mean

a) Hes saying MQM does not have a violent, racist nature
b) Hes saying that MQM doesnt take bhatta
c) Hes saying that elections contested in MQM strongholds are free and fair

Equally, it does not for a moment detract from MQM's ugly racism and terrorism that it is strongest in lower/middle class areas with a large participation from within those communities. Why must you lot be ostriches and have this moon-eyed view of people that the only reason racists are elected is because the votes are rigged. No. Based on my admittedly personal experience, MQM is popular in the areas it represents. Amongst my (mostly middle/lower-middle) urdu speaking friends and family, anti-MQM people are the outliers. The better people might find the violence distasteful and Altaf's lunacy embarassing, but they buy hook line and sinker the MQM story of ethnic victimization and exclusion.

The problem is not that Karachi is held hostage by MQM, but that MQM has successfully engineered and perpetuated a narrative about muhajirness that ensures that their ugly activities are given a pass by their target audience. These threads about ballots etc remind me of how in the first term of Bush people used to think that Americans really dont like war and all this violence is because Bush stole an election. Ten years on, we know that Americans really only like to feel like they're for peace, but can stand a lot of killing if they feel its for their protection, have a dim view of their enemy's humanity aided by racist stereotypes (with the exception of the ones they adopt for looking like them) and write off a culture of racist war crimes as the work of bad apples. All of those apply to MQM's support base too unfortunately.

And just so no MQM walla complains, most of the above is true for the people MQM is fighting with, Pashtun/Sindhi racists. The sad bit is, there is no good party, and if you live in the city you are expected to pick a side. Sort of like the War on Terror again.

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Re: MQM brings ahead common man in polls: CJ


ji, rich class mai dacoo paida ho hotay hayn, jo baad mai president ban jatay hayn.

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Re: MQM brings ahead common man in polls: CJ

chalayn ab ap un ke maan baap tak pohonch jayen, jiyala kara to kia karay

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Re: MQM brings ahead common man in polls: CJ

So you know about corrupt Man** Bap**
This was a reply to this post .

Aur corrupt middle class main jo **“Ganday” **peda hotay hain woh jism faroshi aur chandah khori kay baad Insaf kay chairman ban jatay hain .

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Re: MQM brings ahead common man in polls: CJ

Rich class main First Rate Ghanday paida hotay hain joh haram khori aur mulk faroshi key baad minister aur president ban jatay hain.

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Re: MQM brings ahead common man in polls: CJ

Don’t you think that such accusations are meaningless, especially when coming from political opponents? Naimatullah made accusation, but how about corruption of Naimatullah. Shouldn’t Naimatullah period be audited too? I agree with Naimatulalh that auditing should be done … but is it not right that to start with, Naimatullah should demand auditing of his period too?

I believe lot of works towards betterment of Karachi was done during MK period and most in Karachi appreciate that too. If such amount of work can be done along with corruption, it is great achievement.

Anyhow, nothing can justify corruption. Corruption is not only undesirable but this evil has to get eliminated from society, whoever does it, so auditing should be done of all periods and all government departments.

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Re: MQM brings ahead common man in polls: CJ

^ Why did u delete the paragraph with 'in my opinion'? ;-)

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Re: MQM brings ahead common man in polls: CJ

I deleted because I felt people do not like long post. :)

Anyhow, the paragraph was regarding issue that is irrelevant here, as it was my opinion on what should be done about corruption in Pakistan. What I wrote was more or less as follow:

In my opinion, Pakistan should have Zero tolerance towards corruption. For that, Pakistan should enact law with mandatory punishment. According to enacted law, all politicians holding public offices and all government employees from grade 15 to 22 should declare their assets and assets of their close family members every year to NAB, and that their assets along with their standard of living should get scrutinised by NAB. NAB should also monitor assets and living standard of all such persons for at least 10 years after retirement (or leaving public office).

If their assets and standard of living is found beyond their known means and they could not justify that than they should get prosecuted. Once found guilty, all their legally and illegally acquired assets along with assets of their close family members should get confiscated, and they should get sack from their posts. As for punishment other than confiscation of assets and losing job, if their assets and standard of living is found more than 100 percent of their known means than they should get hanged (or put in prison for indefinite period). Anyhow, if their assets are found less than 100 percent of their known means then they should be put in jail varying from 1 to 10 years depending on their level of corruption.

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Re: MQM brings ahead common man in polls: CJ

what do I think? it really doesn't matter what I think.......
it's what I know that is relevant.

I have concrete evidence of MQM's bhatta-khori and badmashi. First hand.
I don't need any investigations to convince me one way or another.

The fact that you are not willing to accept the downfalls of a party that once had good intentions just shows that you are willing to be party to the corruption that is inherent.

I don't have time to waste with folks that cannot call a spade a spade.

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Re: MQM brings ahead common man in polls: CJ

Observation:

If you have not lived in Karachi in late 80s and 90s, you most likely dont know what worst time mean.