More gender bias

[Theorist]

Re: More gender bias

@X2

There has been discussion around the cons of male circumcision but it does not get the press hoopla. Germany made some news as it tried to ban it, Sweden had similar debate at a government level.

Not having memory does not make it right. There are tons of things a child can be subjected to that it will not remember as a grown up.

The question is, whether there is no harm really done, and there is no harm of any sort to the individual. There is enough data to suggest that it does have harm. You can read it yourself.

Not to be personal, but I want to know whether you’d want your male children to be circumcised. In your answer lies the answer to your question. Perhaps I am not as informed about male circumcision as you are. If it does lead to complications, I would ask: do the complications outnumber the benefits of it? I haven’t done any research but it would be interesting to see.

[X2]

@TLK

^It’s a sunnat, not fard, and Quran does not talk about sunnats

So not required then. Right.

[X2]

@Zafra

No it is not the same. The main objective of FGM is to control women and limit their sexual enjoyment. Its purely patriarchal and sadistic. There are not one and the same.

And choice is irrelevant as FGM happens as late as the teen years. So definitely not the same.

Regardless of why it’s done
Is it necessary and is it mutilation?

It’s not a question of being ‘same’

It’s a question of mutilation of one gender being a human rights issue. And the attempted ban on mutilation of the other gender a religious/human right issue.

[X2]

[quote=““Chicken Biryani””]

Actually you can’t be more wrong. I am not talking about botched circumcisions, but every single circumsition is removing nerve endings.

[TLK]

@X2:9935908

[quote="“TLK, post:89, topic:299622"”]

^It’s a sunnat, not fard, and Quran does not talk about sunnats

So not required then. Right.
[/quote]

Not really, but I think it must be the most followed sunnat of all.

[X2]

@Theorist

Not to be personal, but I want to know whether you’d want your male children to be circumcised. In your answer lies the answer to your question.

I would not.

@Theorist

Perhaps I am not as informed about male circumcision as you are. If it does lead to complications, I would ask: do the complications outnumber the benefits of it? I haven’t done any research but it would be interesting to see.

It has benefits in certain STD prevention. With female circumsition that link I posted has classified them into a few different types of surgeries and claim that certain ones have benefits. Would you be okay with those too?

[X2]

@TLK

Not really, but I think it must be the most followed sunnat of all.

Is sunnat something that the prophet did out of his free will?

Was it performed in adulthood or childhood? And was it a general practice at that time anyways?

[Theorist]

Re: More gender bias

@X2

I would not.

It has benefits in certain STD prevention. With female circumsition that link I posted has classified them into a few different types of surgeries and claim that certain ones have benefits. Would you be okay with those too?

No, I would not. I have always heard and known that male circumcision was beneficial to men but I guess it’s not. Again, if the complications outweigh the benefits, then it should not be done. Ultimately, parents are responsible for making this decision for their children. They are the ones who should put a stop to it. Unfortunately, female genital mutilation occurs in places where it’s done due to cultural pressure. It is done by force. In most cases, even parents don’t get to decide.

[X2]

Man you guys suck, I was hoping for a gender based and religion based fight.

I am disappointed that everyone in this thread has an ability to make a rational argument in a civilized manner.

Hmmmm okay life1, here I come…

[TLK]

…and no dirty jokes either. Shame on you sheeda and queer, shame on you guys.

[X2]

I need better trolling capabilities
Totally wasting mod free month and it’s almost over… And not one controversial thread to my name.

[TLK]

Re: More gender bias

@X2

Is sunnat something that the prophet did out of his free will?

Was it performed in adulthood or childhood? And was it a general practice at that time anyways?

I think circumcision was already part of the culture. Islam just adopted it as is. like many other cultural practices of that time.

[Muzna]

Re: More gender bias

@X2

I need better trolling capabilities
Totally wasting mod free month and it’s almost over… And not one controversial thread to my name.

I fear that you have lost it.

[X2]

@Muzna

I fear that you have lost it.

..Or this is a misdirection so my other nicks that may be causing havoc or have been sleeper multi nicks and are soon to be unleashed are not even suspected to be me

^ or maybe the above was a misdirection.

To quote Gabriel and Verbal..

“Have you ever heard of Harry Houdini? Well he wasn’t like today’s magicians who are only interested in television ratings. He was an artist. He could make an elephant disappear in the middle of a theater filled with people, and do you know how he did that? Misdirection. Misdirection. What the eyes see and the ears hear, the mind believes”

Verbal “The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist”

[Mezhgan]

Re: More gender bias

Male circumcision and “female circumcision” are most definitely not the same and are certainly not analogous in terms of anatomy. Male circumcision only removes the prepuce (foreskin) from the male organ (I’m not sure whether I can use the anatomically correct term on here), while “female circumcision” removes the clitoris, and, in the more extreme forms, the labia minora, labia majora and much of the surrounding tissue.

The analogous (male) procedure to “female circumcision” is the removal of the entire male organ and testicles. Simply comparing male circumcision to FGM is inaccurate and rather like comparing apples to oranges.

[Niksik]

Re: More gender bias

@X2

I need better trolling capabilities
Totally wasting mod free month and it’s almost over… And not one controversial thread to my name.

I was going to troll last night when I saw this thread but I was too sleepy

[X2]

@Mezhgan

Male circumcision and “female circumcision” are most definitely not the same and are certainly not analogous in terms of anatomy.

Mezghan, party ended a while back. Obviously it’s not the same thing, one involves a penis the other does not…

@Mezhgan

Male circumcision and “female circumcision” are most definitely not the same and are certainly not analogous in terms of anatomy. Male circumcision only removes the prepuce (foreskin) from the male organ (I’m not sure whether I can use the anatomically correct term on here), while “female circumcision” removes the clitoris, and, in the more extreme forms, the labia minora, labia majora and much of the surrounding tissue.

Where do you get your knowledge from, commercial news? There are different versions of female circumcision and not all involve removal of all parts you noted. Not that I support any of those…just like I dont support circumcision.

SO now if i were to come back and say hey you know what, lets not remove everything, lets just remove the clitoris, then its all hunky dory? good to go…you are in full support of a procedure like that on a little baby girl? if not why are you in support of putting a little baby boy through a trauma?

@Mezhgan

The analogous (male) procedure to “female circumcision” is the removal of the entire male organ and testicles. Simply comparing male circumcision to FGM is inaccurate and rather like comparing apples to oranges.

No…entire removal of penis and testicles impacts reproductive function, that would be equivalent to removal or ovaries as well…speaking of apples and oranges…

The question is whether it is mutilation, and whether the individual facing it has a say. Its not the same obviously because the parts are not the same. But to discount it saying it is not the same and thus okay is really equal to saying lets remove baby girls clitoris without any anesthesia…you in support of that?
millions of baby boys go through this thing without any anesthesia..all the time..but hey kid won’t remember, why dont we just take off other stuff as well.. sheesh

[Krypton]

Re: More gender bias

so this WAS supposed to be satiricial. i knew it and that’s why i kept myself from posting

[X2]

@philosophy

so this WAS supposed to be satiricial. i knew it and that’s why i kept myself from posting

It was not satirical, it was somewhat inflammatory on the issue of religion and whether it is required in religion…which i do believe is not required…but I knew from the get go the people can not look beyond rampant misguided uninformed feminism, blind religion following etc.

of course there are maulvis who claim that the prophet was born circumcized, without umbilical cord and clean…so there is really no discussion with that gang or its fans.

The argument seems to be, since it is not the same, they will not oppose it. Fine. That is their thinking and I can respect that while completely disagreeing with their point of view. The lack of consistency in their thinking is not something I need to convince random people of.

[Muzna]

Re: More gender bias

@X2

of course there are maulvis who claim that the prophet was born circumcized, without umbilical cord and clean…so there is really no discussion with that gang or its fans.

really???
there are people who believe and propagate this sort of thinking???