More converting out of Islam than to Islam (split)

Society Religion & Philosophy
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http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=513

and there u go…

2 million ethnic Muslims adopted baptism in Russia while only 2,5 thousand Russians converted to Islam - expert

real rat-race is on between islam and christianty the two aggressively proselytizing faith

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Re: French Coach Troussier Reverts to Islam

There was a dialogue in some movie. naya naya musalmaan panchon waqt ke namaaz parhta hai.. it’s pretty normal

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Re: French Coach Troussier Reverts to Islam

cynic, while you're at Islam bashing, could you please tell us if non-Hindus can convert to Hinduism? The last time I read in religions class, I learned there's no such option of conversion. You're only born into it.

Also, there are many of us who pray 5 times and day and have been doing it for quite a while. Therefore, refrain from making statements that don't necessarily have any basis.

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Re: French Coach Troussier Reverts to Islam

I am not into bashing I am just putting the news piece here........ we do not badger people with calls of our way is the only right way and hence u must convert otherwise u will end in hell.... we belive there can be more than oen ways to attain salvation so the aggressive proselytizing doesn;t make sense....... people do become hindus just visit any religious place in india it's filled with white people in search of salvation busy in meditation so u can certainly convert now convert is not the right word given there is recogintiont of every path in hindu philosphy but yes one can certainly choose to use the mainstrema hindu path for salvation irrespective of the fact in which home he/she was born..............all the enlightened souls in the world thought there cud be many path but all lead to same god whether it's Bulle Shah or it's Ram krishan Parmahans .. talk to any real sufi saint they will vouch for it....anyway

btw alzajeera Tv had this islamic scholar from africa his cliams were everyday close to 16000 people are leaving islam there.. read this lengthy interview of that gentleman.......
[FONT=Verdana Ref]Maher Abdallah:
Dear viewers, peace of Allah be upon you, greetings and welcome to a new episode of the program Islamic Law and Life.

Our topic this evening will be Christianization in the Dark Continent ... Africa. For after Islam was the religion of the majority, the great majority of that continent, the number of Muslims now is no greater than a third of the population. This is taking into consideration, of course, that a large portion of this group are Arab Muslims. No doubt that the missions of evangelization and Christianization played a great role in this demographic shift of Muslims in the continent.

To discuss this topic, it is my pleasure to introduce today a man who is an expert on the issue of evangelization and Christianization in Africa, even though he will concentrate on the issue of Christianization first and foremost…. Sheikh Ahmad Al Qataani; the president of The Companions Lighthouse for the Science of Islamic Law in Libya, which is an institution specializing in graduating imams and Islamic preachers.

Sheikh Ahmad, welcome to you on the program.

Ahmad Al Qataani:
Greeting to you.

Maher Abdallah:
If we start by inquiring about your strict stance against the Christian missions in Africa, don’t the followers of every religion have the right to seek new converts, exactly as you train and graduate young Muslims to propagate Islam?

Ahmad Al Qataani:
I seek refuge in Allah the Seer, the Knower, from the stoned devil. In the name of Allah the Merciful the Beneficent. Thanks to Allah the One, the Only, the Permanent One, who did not give birth nor was born, to whom no one was equal. I bear witness that there is no God but Allah who has no partners, and I bear witness that our master Muhammed – Allah’s prayers and peace be upon him - is his messenger and seal of prophets; Allah prayers be upon him and his brothers the prophets and messengers and their families.

The question that you pose is a result of not comprehending the difference between the concept of Christianization and the concept of evangelism.

The concept of evangelism: is inviting the non-Christians to the Christian or Nazarene religion, and this is the right of every Christian and the right of every believer to call others to his faith. However, we are talking about a different matter; which is Christianization. Christianization means the following: preparing plans, and executing these plans and evolving these plans to change Muslims into Christians by taking advantage of the ignorance and poverty (of the people) and whatever necessitates from similar circumstances.

So, we are faced with the issue of taking advantage of circumstances, taking advantage of humanitarian needs, taking advantage of the lack of education for example, that these people (missionaries) use to take Muslims out of their religion.

Maher Abdallah:
Fine. This is a big and dangerous phrase. Taking advantage of poverty, of ignorance, of lack of education, of some need is something that a Muslim can also be accused of. So if you don’t back up what you say with examples, with references, your words remain in the air without much weight to them.

Ahmad Al Qataani:
The reality is that these words say a lot less than they should. As we said in the beginning, everyone has the right to invite others to his religion; this is what is known as evangelism (or proselytizing). As for Christianization, no one has the right to take Muslims out of their religion, and you asked for references and the references are too numerous.

Islam used to represent, as you previously mentioned, Africa’s main religion and there were 30 African languages that used to be written in Arabic script. The number of Muslims in Africa has diminished to 316 million, half of whom are Arabs in North Africa. So in the section of Africa that we are talking about, the non Arab section, the number of Muslims does not exceed 150 million people. When we realize that the entire population of Africa is one billion people, we see that the number of Muslims has diminished greatly from what it was in the beginning of the last century. On the other hand, the number of Catholics has increased from one million in 1902 to 329 million 882 thousand (329,882,000). Let us round off that number to 330 million in the year 2000.

As to how that happened, well
.there are now 1.5 million churches whose congregations account for 46 million people. In every hour, 667 Muslims convert to Christianity. Everyday, 16,000 Muslims convert to Christianity. Ever year, 6 million Muslims convert to Christianity
These numbers are very large indeed …..

Maher Abdallah (interrupting):
Hold on! Let me clarify. Do we have 6 million converting from Islam to Christianity or converting from Islam and other religions?

Ahmad Al Qataani:
Great (question)! The other religions are not placed on the list of Christianization; rather they are placed on the list of evangelization. The other religion in Africa is paganism; so it’s Islam, Christianity or paganism. There isn’t something similar to Asia for example where you have Buddhism or Zoroastrianism. In Africa it is just these three, so if you talk about Christianization then it targets the only other heavenly religion which is Islam. As for paganism, those people worship animals and planets and the like.

Maher Abdallah:
So 6 million Muslims a year convert?

Ahmad Al Qataani:
Every year ….. In the African nations this century a tragedy happened. Take for example what happened in Ethiopia. Ethiopia is an Arab nation and I am not saying a muslim nation. If any student looks up the word Habasha (Ethiopia) in the book Ocean Dictionary written by Al-Fairuz Abady, he will find that the word Habashat means “people of different tribes” and this is what happened. Ethiopia was a place where Arabs from different tribes would go to live for a while. We all know that Islam entered Ethiopia before Islam entered the city of Medina. We all know that AL-Najashy (the ruler of Ethiopia) was a Muslim. It is mentioned by Al-Darkatny in his biography of the prophet – Allah’s prayer and peace be upon him – that during the month of Rajab in the 9th year of the Hijra (Muslim calendar) that the prophet said to his companions: “Rise up and pray on your brother Al-Najashy.” From that year on the practice of praying on the absent was established. Therefore from the time of the prophet – Allah’s prayer and peace be upon him – Islam entered Ethiopia. So what has happened to Ethiopia?

What happened is that in the days of Emperor Hela Silasi who used to force Muslims to bow to the Christian, and if he refused then he was whipped 45 lashes and jailed between 2 and 5 years. In the year 1948, a massacre occurred at the hands of the Amharic tribes; the Amharic being Christians and collaborators, who continued to slaughter Muslims for 7 months and perform the most horrific acts imaginable. For example they deprived them from the most basic human rights, to the point that they mutilated the male Muslim’s reproductive organs so that no more Muslim children would be born. Ethiopia was rewarded after all these horrific acts; rewarded by being made the head quarters of the African Unity League.

Let us move to another location in Africa, let it be Nigeria. Nigeria is known by Muslims by the name of the Land of Takror. Nigeria was founded at the beginning of the last century by the British, and many Islamic sources mention it’s name as the Land of Tekror. There is even a letter by the reciter Suyuti, who died in the year 911 Hijri, where the title is: Opening the blessed request and relating the hidden openly to the questions of the people of Takror. So there was an established relationship, and they used to send questions to the scholars of Islam, so this letter (of questions) was sent from one of the sheikh scholars of Nigeria that was called Takror to the Muslim scholar AL Suyuti in Egypt and he in turn responded and the contents of this letter are published and printed and is found in the book “The collection Islamic decrees”.

Nigeria’s population is 120 million people, 70% of whom are Muslim. In the 1960’s a British missionary came and declared that he will Christianize North Nigeria, the majority of whom are Muslim. As a result, Ahmad Banulo (from the leaders of the Msulims) was forced at the time to move him to Lagos the capital. As a result the butcher Arorese, that was present at the time, eliminated all the Muslim rulers and killed Ahmad Banulo, why? Because he merely dared to move this missionary who declared that he wishes to Christianize North Nigeria.

In another country, Zanzibar, is an Arabic African nation and I am not saying Muslim. Zanzibar was always connected to the Sultanate of Oman (in the Persian Gulf). Concerning Zanzibar, there was a priest by the name Julius Niriry, president of Tanzania, who annihilated 20,000 Muslims (male and female) with a military force lead by a chicken thief. This thief was imprisoned for being accused of stealing chickens; he was released and asked to command the military brigade that annihilated 20,000 Muslims.

Maher Abdallah:
My dear viewers welcome back to this episode where we are speaking about the topic of Christianization in the African continent and we are speaking with the Sheikh who is observing and following this issue, as each hour Islam loses just under 700 Muslims who join the Christian religion which leads us to the number of 6 million Muslims every year.

Our sir, you mentioned that there are advantages being taken of necessities: poverty, ignorance; what you mentioned then are waves of elimination, waves of religious eradication, and there is no need to call is racial eradication….. However, let us go back to the topic necessity and exploitation. This may have all been in the past; the military expeditions that you spoke of were all in the beginning or middle of the last century, but what is happening today in regards to exploiting necessities?

Ahmad Al Qataani:
What I wanted to say is that these military expeditions and wars paved the way for what we are seeing today; converting 6 million Muslims every year did not happen from nothing, but was a result of what I mentioned earlier.

As for the topic of necessity exploitation, then a nation like Somalia, whose population is 9.5 million people, are all Muslim without exception. There are no Christians or pagans. And if you did find any then they are an insignificant number that are not even on official statistics. A Belgian missionary by the name of Sabeh came to Somalia and purchased 30,000 Muslim youth, he took advantage of their parents poverty, and we all know the terrible situation that Somalia is going through now and what it went through a few years ago. This is taking advantage of a humanitarian need that any human can go through.

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Re: French Coach Troussier Reverts to Islam

BTW noone said old muslim don't pray 5 times they obviously do .. I was just makign the point that new entrants of any religiois are invariably more steadfast in adhereing to the tenets

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Re: French Coach Troussier Reverts to Islam

cynic, I'd agree with you that perhaps one can convert into Hinduism based on your word, otherwise what I've learned in religions class was quite different, and the Hindus in our class attested to it.

Also, it isn't entirely true that those who newly enter Islam are the most steadfast. There are equally just as many 'old' Muslims who are just as steadfast.

While at it, how knowledgeable (about Islam) are the Muslims in Africa who are converting out of Islam every second? I'd really like to know. Do they even know the basics? Have they ever even practiced Islam?

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Re: French Coach Troussier Reverts to Islam

What u learn in west about hinduism is the leftist version eas we speak people are fighting to get things corrected in curriculum in california..... U don't get the real picture.........

Religion is basically a way of reaching to the god and anyone can choose any path so to say this and that religioins doesn't allow conversion is nonsense...

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Re: French Coach Troussier Reverts to Islam

cynic, thank you for sharing. I'd appreciate it if you could start a thread clarifying it for the remainder of us. Perhaps some evidence from your holy books to back up your claim would also prove to be helpful.

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Re: French Coach Troussier Reverts to Islam

Hmmm…perhaps 2 million Muslims disappeared in Russia, and they assumed they converted.

What was the population of Chechnya?

In any case, I find these numbers (either way) always dubious…but I don’t mind…at least Russians won’t start that whole demographic crap…

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Re: French Coach Troussier Reverts to Islam

will do it some time in fursat

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Re: French Coach Troussier Reverts to Islam

it's beslan region story not chechnya.......... see when someone had posted exactly similar story here people had converted to islam u have been by now cheering with high-fives and suddenly when the table is turned doubts creep in.........I for one don't find it surprising after Beslan it must have been easy to convince people to move out of islam there.....

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Re: French Coach Troussier Reverts to Islam

I for one frown upon this business of organized proselytization from one faith to another.. world has bigger issue of roti kapara makan and money should be diverted in that direction instead of wasting into this change of faith business..

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Re: French Coach Troussier Reverts to Islam

Maybe, maybe not. When news came out that most died due to Russian security forces botched attempt at a 'rescue', some in the Russian media even hinting that the operation was conducted in such a manner that loss of civlian life was not something the officers worried about, then...well, I'd suggest you have a region full of...cynics.

Now, levelling an entire city of Muslims should make Russians feel good...but when a handful of Russians take a few hundread hostage, stop the presses...no, I don't think it's that easy dude.

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Re: French Coach Troussier Reverts to Islam

this is how world works.. didn't we see whole denmark being boycotted.......

btw in beslan security personnel ventured into botched up operation because there was seie in first place so blame forst and foremost lies with those jihdai group.......... secuirty prsonnle were not efficient but noone in russia woudl doubt their intention........

conversion industry is ON so trust me these are th things which work like charm......... U don't really expect a general gentry to be scholar and hence be able to counter the points ..... if not for gullibility of masses conversion industry has been long gone in oblivion

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Re: French Coach Troussier Reverts to Islam

The guy posted this because a celebrity converted, not some random person.
my buddy converted a gujrati hindu girl and married her :hehe:, u like?
As for your article above about muslims converting LOL. A news story with some guy being quoted is’nt a fact, its a statement. Show me a statistical unbiased study and I will agree. Also the interview you posted about 6 million people converting in Africa is laughable. That would mean within 10 years there would be a virtually no muslims in africa (I would assume they mean non-arab africa)

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Re: French Coach Troussier Reverts to Islam

well islamic scholar are saying this I am not.. and hell when u parade those unsunstantiated hype of this and that fastest growing religion do u provide the stats verified by UN:-)......... why do u guys get so prickly when information doesn't toe ur line.. just deal wiht it be a man..
they say there are around 150 million so it will take more than 10 years for sure

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Re: More converting out of Islam than to Islam (split)

I thought it'd be best if I split the thread, so that members can discuss it better here than in another thread.

Also, I've cleaned up the thread and I hope we can all discuss this without resorting to attacking anyone else's faith or resorting to personal attacks.

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Re: French Coach Troussier Reverts to Islam

For some roti and kapra is likely be all and end all. However, for many others such is not the case. To many of us our faith is our priority and means quite a lot to us. Yes, roti and kapra are important, but so is our faith to us.

Although I don't wish for this thread to get derailed, but given that you mentioned Denmark, I thought I'd add that Denmark as a nation was boycotted because it's government failed to take a stance against the paper. Please don't tell me that the government does not have in its powers to stop a newspaper from churning out trash about a revered religious personality. Had the Danish government taken a stance against the paper, none of this would've happened. While at it, I'd also like to state that the way many Muslims resorted to violent protests was totally unacceptable.

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Re: French Coach Troussier Reverts to Islam

why would a nation take stance against its independetn paper whihc is legally allowed to bash reigion be it christianity or islam or hinduism.... tell me how many shariah state is taking stance against impending beheading of a person who converted to christianity in afghanistan.......anway in europe I have seen them sponsoring drama by a muslim which shows virgin mary topless in matters of religions they are liberal so why would they change that law for somebody......

and yes try giving any of those pios ones option between roti and god and see the result for urself.........

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Re: French Coach Troussier Reverts to Islam

Because it is a direct insult to Islam's greatest human figure, the prophet PBUH. Freedom of speech or not, insulting Islam's greatest human figure, knowing the sensitivity of muslims to this Issue, is something we muslims wont take lying down. All we asked for was to stop it and not let it happen again, if the government cant even do that than we have to do something in order to be heard (and I dont mean blowing up embassies).

The stance has been taken pal and the correct decision in my opinion has been made. Abdul Rehman, the christian convert is dropped of all charges. It is extremely foolish to excute someone for converting to Islam. For one, that would mean in Afghanistan, people are ONLY remain muslim because they fear death, how can you call them true muslims? For two, what if christian states like US beheaded christian to muslim reverts? Thats just absolutely stupid. Releigous tolerance and considertaion would be the barometer of a moderate society, and Denmark isn't one at the moment.

If at all there is ill will and a desire to insult releigous figures, we will oppose it. Cynic how would you like it if somebody drew your father in they way prophet Muhammed was drawn and depicted your mother topless? It'd be enough to make you as angry as we are for muslims hold these releigous figures just as dear as their parents if not more.

What do yo mean by pios? Only PIO I know are the Persons of Indian Origin. Anyway if you are debating between roti and god, let me tell you, its been discussed millions of times.

Roti symbolizes worldly good. God Symbolizes Releigon. Dont take it litrellaly to mean food.