MORALS AND VALUES

iqadeer - My purpose here is not to criticize you personally either... I just want to make a point that whether it's Islam or Hinduism or whatever else, religion itself is a subjective matter.... The essence of it varies from person to person.

The proof of Quran being true based on word of Allah may be enough for you, but the countless people who don't believe in Allah, won't take it as a truth. So when you look at it Objectively, you can't say one religion is right and other is wrong, you can only say both of them have their own subjective value and belief system. This is the Absolute Truth, anything less objective won't be an absolute truth. The validity of an absolute truth can only be judged by humanity as a whole, not by just a portion of it.

One thing that always bothers me is how people from religion/belief A tell people of religion/belief B on how they are "doomed" and "will be burnt in the fire of hell" etc because they (religion B people) don't believe in religion A's value system. I find it quite rude and offensive.

No one has the right to declare an "eternal infliction" upon those who don't agree with him/her on religious basis.

Lastly,

[quote]
to know the real faith (imaan), you need to experience it
[/quote]
Same goes for any other belief or school of thought... What I am experiencing or the way neurons in my brain are functioning is a result of my whole life-experience and learning, just the same as you have your experiences and learning processes... but they are just different, not right or wrong with respect to each other. That difference is what counts, either way. But if you to uphold an absolute truth, you have to look beyond the subjectivity of the differences that we have in the functioning of our neurons!

Roman,

But if you to uphold an absolute truth, you have to look beyond the subjectivity of the differences that we have in the functioning of our neurons!

I agree. But Quran tells me, and I mean figuritively, that what you referred to as the neurons, are actually the satan shaitaan and the soul or nafs, the self of a person. Let me quote some ayaats of the Quran to give you a clearer perspective of how Allah explains the causes of people becoming astray.

"Then did Satan make them slip from the (garden), and get them out of the state (of
felicity) in which they had been. We said: "Get ye down, all (ye people), with enmity
between yourselves. On earth will be your dwelling-place and your means of livelihood - for a time.(2:36)"

Here Satan is regarded as the cause of Adam alaihis salaam's cause of expulsion from the heaven.

"Those of you who turned back on the day the two hosts Met,-it was Satan who caused them to fail, because of some (evil) they had done. But Allah Has blotted out(their fault): For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Forbearing."

Once again it was the Satan who caused the Muslims to turn back from the battle ground on the day of some ghazwa, I believe it was Uhad, but Allah forgave them.

"Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan: feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan.(4:76)"

Self-explanatory.

" (The Pagans), leaving Him, call but upon female deities: They call but upon satan the persistent rebel!(4:117)"

"Allah did curse him, but he said: "I will take of Thy servants a portion Marked off;(4:118)"

"I will mislead them, and I will create in them false desires; I will order them to slit
the ears of cattle, and to deface the (fair) nature created by Allah." Whoever, forsaking
Allah, takes satan for a friend, hath of a surety suffered a loss that is manifest.(4:119)"

"Satan makes them promises, and creates in them false desires; but satan's promises are nothing but deception.(4:120)"

"O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan's handwork: eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper(5:90)"

" Satan's plan is (but) to excite enmity and hatred between you, with intoxicants and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of Allah, and from prayer: will ye not then abstain? (5:91)"

" When the suffering reached them from us, why then did they not learn humility? On
the contrary their hearts became hardened, and Satan made their (sinful) acts seem
alluring to them.(6:43)"

"When thou seest men engaged in vain discourse about Our signs, turn away from
them unless they turn to a different theme. If Satan ever makes thee forget, then after
recollection, sit not thou in the company of those who do wrong.(6:68)"

"O ye Children of Adam! Let not Satan seduce you, in the same manner as He got your parents out of the Garden, stripping them of their raiment, to expose their shame: for he and his tribe watch you from a position where ye cannot see them: We made the evil ones friends (only) to those without faith.(7:27)"

This also explains the argument that where is Satan. Allah has told us that he exists but is invisible to our eyes just like today there are so many things that exist but are not observable through eyes. To deny them will be ignorance on our part therefore, we must also believe in Satan.

Now here are some ayaats regarding the nafs.

"The (selfish) soul of the other led him to the murder of his brother: he murdered him,
and became (himself) one of the lost ones.(5:30)"

This is the story of the sons of Adam alaihis salaam's sons when one decides to kill the other. The entire story can be read in the tafseer of the Quran.

"Nor do I absolve my own self (of blame): the (human) soul is certainly prone to evil, unless my Lord do bestow His Mercy: but surely my Lord is Oft- forgiving, Most Merciful.(12:53)"

This are the words of Yousuf alaihis salaam after the whole incident of how the King's wife tries to seduce him.

"Nay,-whoever submits His whole self to Allah and is a doer of good,- He will get his reward with his Lord; on such shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.(2:112)"

"But the Unbelievers (are steeped) in self-glory and Separatism. (38:2)"

" And no one will be granted such goodness except those who exercise patience and self-restraint,- none but persons of the greatest good fortune.(41:35)"

"And they became divided only after Knowledge reached them,- through selfish envy as between themselves. Had it not been for a Word that went forth before from thy Lord, (tending) to a Term appointed, the matter would have been settled between them: But truly those who have inherited the Book after them are in suspicious (disquieting) doubt concerning it.(42:14)"

" And I do call to witness the self-reproaching spirit: (Eschew Evil).(75:2)"

" But he who is a greedy miser and thinks himself self-sufficient, And gives the lie to the best, We will indeed make smooth for him the path to Misery(92:8,9,10)"

"But those will prosper who purify themselves, And glorify the name of their Guardian-Lord, and (lift their hearts) in prayer.(87:14,15)"

Ok, you know what, I think we are talking on different tangents here... but nice dialogue though, see you around :)