Modi in Congress

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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41

Re: Modi in Congress

Yes but add the fact that that the Army undermines the power and stature of the PM. NS has been burned in the past, and he is playing it safe. especially considering how popular the COAS is currently. Modi appears successful because he has the confidence that comes from massive popularity. He has the full backing of his govt and his people. NS not so much.

Pakistan also has a far more complex balancing act to perform as compared to India. Look out for its own interests, while maintaining the support of the US. Not an easy task. India doesnt have to contend with Afghanistan. It doesnt have to do anything and it still reaps the reward. Pakistans situation is such that no one could do any better.

granted NS is not as outspoken and vocal as some other leaders. But verbosity doesnt necessarily a great leader make.

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Re: Modi in Congress

It only took change of leadership in India and Iran to quickly change the dynamics of the region. A huge lesson for some Pakistanis who promote lethargy and policies of stagnation and think in this day and age - while the world is moving so fast - Pakistan has the luxury of wasting another decade another young generation in a hope that time alone will magically fix everything after 20 years of no efforts.

The world ain't going to wait for Pakistan. You are already at least 20 years behind Iran and India.

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Re: Modi in Congress

Yes. You have right to highlight ethnic influence in punjab. Who stops you? At least acknowledge what you are doing.
Btw, doi get it correctly that by ethnic clout you mean ethnic influence?

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Re: Modi in Congress

I don't know what you are talking about. Just take whatever sounds less offensive to you. I am not going to offer you any more explanation.

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Re: Modi in Congress

just went through the thread. thx for bringing it back to track.

and I expect other members to mediate sometimes as well instead of standing on the side......... yae hum sab ka forum hai!

Akela PD kahan kahan bhagha karay :(

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Re: Modi in Congress

All I want to know after this thread…what the hell is the meaning of ** xenophobic

**:halo::hoonh:

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Re: Modi in Congress

I'm fairly certain that Pakistan isn't 20 years behind India or Iran... basic infrastructure in India is mediocre at best. Recall the massive blackout last summer. recall how that I'll constructed overpass, built inches from people homes collapsed killing some 40 people... I mean India is doing well, but let's not exaggerate. Iran has oil money, they are ahead of both India and Pakistan. Tehran I believe had a under ground metro long before India... And Iran is way ahead in many social indicators.

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Re: Modi in Congress

I have cleaned the thread. lets move on, it is ramazan, so pls be nice to each other :snooty:

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Re: Modi in Congress

Agar ek doosray ka sar phorna hai tou wait till Shawwal

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Re: Modi in Congress

Sorry, that was a typo. Autocorrect changed stout to clout. My bad.

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Re: Modi in Congress

Please visit the Literature subforum. The Mods are standing by.

Some of them I hear are nice. Others are, well, blegh.

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Re: Modi in Congress

India has 29 states with every major Indian City having at least some kind of mass transit system. The great infrastructure we in Pakistan love to boast about doesn't go beyond the city of Lahore and Pindi. Anyway, recently a brand new bridge also collapsed in Punjab.

Indian infrastructure with population of 1.2 billion people is always under a great strain. Public spending on across the board development is quite a recent phenomenon there. But India is definitely ahead of Pakistan by 20 years in terms of their Reforms, structural improvements in their democracy, governance and economy, institutions, literacy rate, employment rate, technical advancement, public spending, trade, rapid urbanisation, growing middle class, foreign standing etc

At this point, all India really needs to do is go for the kill like China, have some kind of population control and push for a cohesive policy to defeat poverty. I don't know how successful Modi is with his war against poverty initiative, but last time I was interested in this topic, I read he has stepped up the efforts.

Last but the not the least, unlike Pakistan, they have more than enough quality hospitals that Modi would not think twice before using.

Iran with crippling economic sanction and international isolation of over 30 years have built a lot of internal capacity for science and technology. With adult literacy rate of 97% with no gender disparity and 70% of their science and engineering students being women is testament of the fact how time alone and wasting of a generation doesn't fix anything (it only makes things worse if you ask the Arabs!!). You need to invest a lot of efforts to make changes.

Iranian govermnent once they managed to have a complete break from the shadows of Shah's corruption and traditions of extreme extravagance were able to work on a lot social issues, despite the sanctions.

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Re: Modi in Congress

As they say, sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind.

So you know what, let GHQ get frustrated and bang their head against the wall. This is very much their own doing.

For far too long, Army preferred to work with compromised leaders with criminal records thinking they don't need strong political leadership at the front as long as they are managing things from behind the scenes and have a way of controlling and blackmailing power hungry corrupt politicians.

End result? Pakistan misses out of having credible political representation at the world stage making GHQs policies look ineffective and illegitimate in absence of any political backing.

Now let GHQ see that growing stature of neighbouring countries is directly proportionate to the efforts their political leadership is putting. Army will have to realise that a General - however popular or respected he may be - is just a general in front of 'President' Rouhani or 'Prime Minister' Modi. A General cannot represent and fight for his country's interests like a head of state can.

The growing isolation on world stage and the sense of confusion and misunderstanding that surrounds their policies will hopefully make them realise how important it is to have a strong, dynamic leader who is popularly backed by his people and has the confidence, legitimacy, charisma, substance and willingness to represent policies and effectively lobby for Pakistan's interests. A popular COAS alone cannot achieve this.

I mean 70 foreign trips by Nawaz Sharif in two years, and what exactly are the diplomatic achievements of such 'expensive' trips? What investment did he bring to the country?

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Re: Modi in Congress

Please no one come up with rhetoric let civilian have 'total control' of the foreign policy. There is no country in the world where PM or President decides the foreign policy.

Most of the time, the blue print of the foreign policy to be taken under their tenure is ready before they join the office.

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Re: Modi in Congress

They are marginally ahead in certain areas. Governance yes, infrastructure definently not. Pakistan roads are better then Indias. Pakistan railways have been neglected but are improving. Pakistan is building transit systems in its own cities, and it certainly won't take 20 years to catch up to India in that regard. A country 20 years ahead of us shouldn't have newly built flyover collapsing is the point. Also a country 20 years ahead wouldn't be seeing a massive blackout effecting countless Millions of people. nor would such a country find them selves in a situation where a quarter of their capital city is without access to water because of some protestors...

Indian govt hospitals are notoriously innefficient and I'll ewuiped. most Indian graduates are unemployable. Their railways kill more people then any other on the planet. nearly half the population is malnourished. More people in India lack access to toilets then in Pakistan.
there isn't a significant difference in social indicators either. It won't require Pakistan 20 years to catch up in education or health. just yesterday I read that Pakistani life expectancy has improved. Pakistan has seen the fewest cases of Polio this year, so will likely eradicate it soon.

Iran invested in education as far back as the days of the Shah... So they have been reaping the rewards of oil for a long time. the Shah invested a great deal in education... Google it.

finally, Modi can say he will do everything, but only after its done that you can credit him for it. Ambition aside.
so India is ahead in certain areas... but by no stretch of the imagination can one say the are 20 years ahead.

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Re: Modi in Congress

Absoluetly crap!!!

India is heaven and you dare not doubt that.
If indian cities have mass transit system then that states its greatness and investment in infrastructure...and on the sane token, if Pakistan builds one, then it is wastage of resources as claimed by many in Pakistan.

Indian hospitals are state-of-art for those who have not visited them...some Idiots in India believes if India triple its investment in health sector then it provide basic health facilities to 30-40% of its population...

It is perfectlt fine, as a matter of fact it is a Nazar-Watto thing that India is compared to drought hit sub-sahara countries when it comes to malnutritions...

But India's investment on Shinning India in BBC sure have it dividends...

To those who are praising India just visit it...and if you are female then dont go there without body guards...

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Re: Modi in Congress

Okay, I clearly wasn't thinking of roads and concrete when I thought of progress. I actually had a Pakistani uncle telling me how UK's infrastructure is so poorly developed than Pakistan because our roads are so narrow with so many traffic rules as "Pakistan me driving karta pata chalta he ke banda driving kar raha he" (whatever that means) So I'm not gonna fall for this the whole road glorification debate. I bet Mexico has better roads than India and Pakistan combined. Syria also had out of the world infrastructure.

Anway India was ahead of you that's why all their major cities had mass transit system well before Pakistan. If their system is old and needs an upgrade, and Pakistan has couple of years old shiny red buses, then that's a different issue.

But yes in terms of their economic reforms and structural improvement in their democracy and governance, India is massively ahead of Pakistan by decades. Their economic reforms alone took over 10 years to come in shape and have only started producing results not many years ago. Where are Pakistan's reforms, and how much time has already been wasted?

You can feel good by saying how third world country of 1.2 billion has all sorts of issues that Pakistan itself is so plagued by. But India is ahead, if you think in 20 years Pakistan can totally eliminate every single problem India is currently facing then more power to your imagination.

Pakistanis can feel good about thinking how India has no toilets, but apparently it is a country with no toilets that's doing a proper economic encirclement around you, and enjoying far better relations with your friends and foes.

Pakistan cannot manage economic and political equality between mere four provinces and India's Federation of 29 States with an incredibly diverse population.

Let's see how many years it takes Pakistan to catch up with Indian literacy rate and economic growth and democratic reforms, then we can determine whether India was 20 years ahead or just 10.

Let's see how many years it also takes Pakistan to declare itself a secular state and have a constitution as strong as India's....I still bet on 20.

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Re: Modi in Congress

Roads are the backbone of an economy. Quality roads that allow efficient movement if goods and people. that's common sense.

it's common knowledge that one of the things that holds India back is a LACK of infrastructure, along with the lack of structural reforms.

The Delhi metro was partially complete by 2012... the rest if the country have built BRTS and metro recently. And it only took Pakistan the past 4 years to build transit systems in 2 major cities, and others to follow in multi and Karachi.

India's economic has grown, but like I said, it's not 20 years ahead... that's exagerating.

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Re: Modi in Congress

India has far greater rate of internal migration, much better interstate connectivity, significantly more geographically mobile population than Pakistan. Of course they have roads, how are these people migrating otherwise? So much for lack of infrastructure, India has the second largest road network in the world, but if the crux of your debate is how some urban areas in Pakistan has prettier and newer roads, then fine have the last word. Indian road network is older than Pakistan, and definitely lot more strained due to their population size.

India is being held by its massive population size which is huge pressure on its infrastructure and resources. They need to control their population to let their cities breathe a little.

Considering India's growing economy is the result of reformed passed in 90s, it is technically 20 years ahead. We can have a proper debate on the difference when Pakistan even bothers passing any sort of reforms, let alone the time it takes to fully effect the economy.

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Re: Modi in Congress

they migrate on bad roads on which thousands die every year.
I'm talking about motorways and highways. Their roads are older and unable cope becsuse they haven't invested in them. so another example of why they are NOT 20 years ahead.

The logic that they are 20 years ahead because they had reforms 20 years ago, doesn't make much sense to me. facts on the ground speak otherwise. An economy 20 years ahead of Pakistan would be significantly better on all accohnts. that's clearly not the case.

although I agree that owing to discriminatory laws Pakistan is way behind on citizens rights. the way Pakistan treats minorities is appalling and shameful. don't even get me started. but interprovincial harmony, distribution of resources is improving.