I don’t know how many people will be interested in these issues, so I am trying to fuse in two different discussions to get greater participation.
Here is an article for your reference Muslim offers ideas on avoiding sexual abuse
The argument is that decency or modesty in a woman’s choice of clothes may act as a deterrent from sexual abuse / rape. I believe in it but the counter argument is that in countries where women’s choice of attire, comparatively to the Western or far eastern countries, is far more modest (i.e. most Muslims countries) the problem of sexual abuse isn’t very different. Those societies might have a ‘hush hush – put it under the carpet’ culture but its quiet apparent that they are not immune to these social problems/crimes. I usually answer this objection by saying that modesty is ‘a’ deterrent to sexual abuse, not the deterrent.
A side issue is that of equality among sexes. In our Desi culture, most men have far more freedom than women. A simple example is that you will usually see a Desi guy wearing shorts but the women even in jeans sometimes is not considered modest enough. The argument there is that a male can ‘protect’ himself while a female cannot. For some reason I am very uneasy with this concept which totally undermines the concept of modesty. These double standards are not only part of our culture; many studies by American focus groups show that American parents tend to tell their sons to be ‘careful’ about premarital sex while they tend to advise their daughters to ‘abstain’ all together.
So, the question here is how many of you agree that modesty is a deterrent and if equality in terms of modesty among sexes is a reasonable expectation?
Sounds like blame the victim.... You discussion on the double standard for girls and boys is a topic in itself so lets focus on prevention of rape/sexual abuse/assult through modesty....
Saying islam/modesty prevents sexual abuse does not explain the rampant sexual abuse and molestation of young girls and boys that goes on in Pakistan....they are dressed modestly but still are victims.
Further, most US arguments are that sexual abuse/rape are not crimes of passion OR sex rather a crime of violance where the one raping the victim is attempting to gain control over the victim...and rape/violance is a means to do so...which is why 92 year old grand mothers get raped...
So, keeping those items in mind, religion has nothing to do with it and modesty doesn't help.
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*Originally posted by amelie: *
Sounds like blame the victim.... You discussion on the double standard for girls and boys is a topic in itself so lets focus on prevention of rape/sexual abuse/assult through modesty....
Saying islam/modesty prevents sexual abuse does not explain the rampant sexual abuse and molestation of young girls and boys that goes on in Pakistan....they are dressed modestly but still are victims.
Further, most US arguments are that sexual abuse/rape are not crimes of passion OR sex rather a crime of violance where the one raping the victim is attempting to gain control over the victim...and rape/violance is a means to do so...which is why 92 year old grand mothers get raped...
So, keeping those items in mind, religion has nothing to do with it and modesty doesn't help.
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I so agree with you on this one.
It is really pathetic when people blame the female for not being modest and sending the wrong signals in cases such as rape or sexual abuse. This just shows how baised the society is. Men can sometimes get away even with rape, but a woman will be stripped off her dignity if she wears them hip huggers.
Re: Modesty as deterrent and the issue of equality
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*Originally posted by ahmadjee: *
A side issue is that of equality among sexes. In our Desi culture, most men have far more freedom than women. A simple example is that you will usually see a Desi guy wearing shorts but the women even in jeans sometimes is not considered modest enough. The argument there is that a male can ‘protect’ himself while a female cannot. For some reason I am very uneasy with this concept which totally undermines the concept of modesty. These double standards are not only part of our culture; many studies by American focus groups show that American parents tend to tell their sons to be ‘careful’ about premarital sex while they tend to advise their daughters to ‘abstain’ all together.
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I had a similar discussion with a certain guppy just yesterday. And him being a male he was of the view that he would want his daughter/wife to wear a hijab(all the freakin time) but it's okay for him to move around topless in his backyard on hot summer afternoons.
Yes, I do believe modesty plays a role as a deterrent in a persons actions. As you stated, its not the only role, and it doesnt mean ppl who dress modest dont get raped, etc, but it definately plays a role in my opinion.
but what is modesty in a mans eye?? even a female draped in a black cloth from head to toe will lure him into fantasing about her... maybe men should sit down and decide exactly what a female should do to not deter them..... even then i dont think it'd work..