Moderate Muslims?

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Moderate Muslims?

Peace Dear hareem01

No ... if the intention is as a nufl then we are trying to be 'mohsinun' or excellent.

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Re: Moderate Muslims?

No, Hareem01. There are all sort of extremists in Israel and they are highly religious too. Orthodox Jews versus Zionists is another topic.

Who do you think, Armughal is sympathic with? Think deeply and you know the answer. How come you pop up, when I quoted Armughal all of sudden? Just curious.
Im sure, Al-Qaida and salafis believe they are doing the right thing.
All in all, extremists are plain and simple intolerant people.
They are very busy at JUDGING and POINTING fingers at others, they believe are lesser than themselves. I call it double standards and being arrogant.
They cant have it under the sun,.... what others believe is the balanced way of practicing Islam, they regard it as MUNAFIQAT. Thats a very harsh term.

Darmiyaana rawih means (casual interpretation), doing things religiously in a balanced way. To avoid to be totally modern or totally extreme in practicing Islam. The golden MIDDLE way.....
(now feel free to correct me, thats my own personal interpretation of the word)

Psyah:
No ... if the intention is as a nufl then we are trying to be 'mohsinun' or excellent.

^SubhanAllah! Thumbs up for the way you expressed it so elegantly.
Like cutting The **Gordian Knot. **And keep it going, you are bold for a first timer @GS.

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Re: Moderate Muslims?

There is big difference between Moderate Muslims and extremists that are so-called Muslims (actually, they are not Muslims). For instance, as an example:

Allah says to pray salaat 5 times a day:

Moderate Muslims do salaat 5 times a day. They read small surah or few ayahs of surah in each rakaat where they need to read Quranic ayahs during Salaat. Each time they do salaat, it lasts few minutes. They also invite others they believe would listen, to do salaat, but not force anyone.

Extremists also do salaat 5 times a day. Difference is that, they like to finish whole Quran in rakaat they need to read Quranic ayahs. If it is up to them, each time their salaat could last 4 hours and they believe that this is the right thing to do. They do not end there, but would do takfeer on all others that do not agree with them (calling them Kafir) on pretext that others are not doing salaat properly (judging them according to their wrong beliefs). These extremist do not invite others to do salaat but force others, and are willing to do suicide to kill others that do not listen to them.

Same goes with all the things a moderate Muslim does and extremist (so-called Muslim) does.

Nothing wrong, the only thing wrong is that, extremists do not believe on Allah, Quran, Prophet (SAW), hadith, or Islam, neither they would like to listen or argue logically. They would get physical during discussion and would start abusing person they are discussing, calling names, and doing takfeer.

They are following what they believe to be right. That’s OK, no one is so much concerned about these misguided, as they follow 'egoism and shaitanism', though they can follow Hinduism, Christianity, paganism or whatever, no one cares. Problem is that, they not only follow their misguided Kafir beliefs, they try to force their beliefs on others.

They are needed to get shot down as mad dogs not because they are extremists (many amongst them that do takfeer are Kafir), but because they force others to follow their kufur beliefs of ‘egoism and shatanism’, call others ‘Kafir’ that do not believe on their misguided Kufur beliefs, and are willing to take laws in their hands and also do suicide to kill others who do not follow their misguided Kufur beliefs.

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Re: Moderate Muslims?

So true! Mashallah, excellent written.

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Re: Moderate Muslims?

great post psyah.

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Re: Moderate Muslims?

I am not a moderate muslim
but
a muslim moderate.

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Re: Moderate Muslims?

I am sorry but this definition is not for a moderate muslim. Its a definition of a Muslim..period:)

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Re: Moderate Muslims?

No, I get your point but isn't the lack of Muslim representation in the media one of the reasons for such bias believes...

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Re: Moderate Muslims?

EXACTLY right ....a good muslim does not pick and choose when it comes to islamic injunctions ....
problem is the defination and perception of "moderate" and "extremist"
and those who identify with these concepts ...the whole image of a extremist muslim who is in reality is the true muslim is greatly maligned by takferis and the hypocrites.

as far as I know Quran does not mention any "moderate muslims"

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Re: Moderate Muslims?

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Re: Moderate Muslims?

pathani

and who will define this "darmiyana rawi" ?
does this not translate into " I will follow religion as long it does not force me to give up any worldly gain and suits my lifestyle, but if it does than I will disregard that rule and call it a extremist interpretation of islam" ...how convenient !!

but the other point raised by sa1eem is also very valid ...those who are the takferis .....they also a slave to their ego .....in reality they are not extremists but deviants ....
a truely extremist muslim will be as careful about not harming another muslim by his tongue and hand as much as he will be about avoiding music and mixed gatherings.
Problem with the takferis is that they remember the later and forget the former ......

if anyone is interested in the islamic way of how to deal with takferis ...read about the kharijites and their conflict with Ali b abutalib[as] but plz consult primary sources if avalible a lot of misinformation on websites

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Re: Moderate Muslims?

Pathani thanks.

Anyhow, it seems that some people still want more proof, on Muslim being moderate. What proof could be better then Quran?

Actually, one only calls oneself Muslims. But when black sheep (wolves wearing sheep skin) have taken over Islam, misguided and ignorant are all over claiming to be Muslims. To differentiate ‘Muslims’ from ‘so-called Muslims who are actually arrogant, ignorant, misguided, still claim to be Muslims’ true definition for Muslims has to come up, definition that Allah has endorsed in Quran, that is ‘Moderate Muslims’ or ‘Muslims that are following moderate path’.

Allah loves moderate and for Allah, a Muslim is one that follow moderate course. Rest are evil, arrogant and bray like Ass. Read Quran:

Surah Al-Maeda (5), ayah 66:

YUSUFALI: If only they had stood fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side. There is from among them a party on the right course: but many of them follow a course that is evil.
**
PICKTHAL:** If they had observed the Torah and the Gospel and that which was revealed unto them from their Lord, they would surely have been nourished from above them and from beneath their feet. Among them there are people who are moderate, but many of them are of evil conduct.
**
SHAKIR:** And if they had kept up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which was revealed to them from their Lord, they would certainly have eaten from above them and from beneath their feet there is a party of them keeping to the moderate course, and (as for) most of them, evil is that which they do.

Whom Allah is calling moderate in above Ayah?

Well, Muslims. For Allah, those who follow moderate course (moderate path) follow right course and are thus Muslims.

What Allah is calling to those that are not on moderate course?

They are evil, following an evil path.

Again in surah Luqman (31), ayah 18-19 (here Allah has clearly defined the difference between being moderate in life and being ignorant and evil):

Surah Luqman (31), Ayahs 18-19:

YUSUFALI (31:18): "And swell not thy cheek (for pride) at men, nor walk in insolence through the earth; for Allah loveth not any arrogant boaster.

YUSUFALI (31:19): "And be moderate in thy pace, and lower thy voice; for the harshest of sounds without doubt is the braying of the ass."
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According to above ayahs (5:66 and 31:18-19), Allah tells that Allah loves those that are moderate (actually they are in reality Muslims). As for rest, who are not moderate, Allah calls them ‘arrogant’ and people that bray like Ass (gadha).

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Re: Moderate Muslims?

the ayahs talk about those who are arrogant and as I already said such people are amongst the takferis as well ....infact the kharijites were very much like the ayats you quoted ,

the ayats before refer to people of the book here moderate means those who did not make the prophets divine and godlike ...nowhere does it say that moderate means those who follow religion selectively
in commom lexicon the term "moderate muslims" refers to such people that is why I said that it is inaccurate
how do you define moderate muslims?

Pimp GS Passport - A Game
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Re: Moderate Muslims?

Peace Lusi

The problem is not lack of Muslim representation in the media. It is the lack of Muslims being effective humans. We can talk all we want in the media about how good we are, if we don't meet those claims with actions to back them up there is no amount of words in the whole media that could deny the outright nature of Muslims being far less than what they believe in.

But if by 'media' you mean any form of communication ... well we all start by sending a charitable smile out to person we walk by everyday, let people get infront of us in queues and not get vexed over it, etc.

The modern media I hope you realise is in the hands of deceivers on the whole. I'm not much a believer in 'if you can't beat 'em join 'em' ... Yes, one method is to create our own media channels and avenues but we would be playing catch up. It is far more effective if we just do things to be excellent Muslims and then even if the world hates us for being nice, at least our Lord will love us.

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Re: Moderate Muslims?

Peace Fraudz

Thumbs up to that bro ...

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Re: Moderate Muslims?

Muslims are people of the book. Allah has sent Quran for Muslims. When Allah tells about past people of the book, in actuality, Allah gives message to people of Quran (Muslims). If message tells of something, that applies to Muslims as much as that applied to past people of the books.

Read ayah 5:66 carefully. It is about following Islam (true religion, religion what Allah has sent), nothing else. Those who follow Islam (religion that is of Allah) actually follow the moderate path. Those who do not follow moderate path, are not Muslims but ignorant.

SHAKIR (5:66): And if they had kept up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which was revealed to them from their Lord, they would certainly have eaten from above them and from beneath their feet there is a party of them keeping to the moderate course, and (as for) most of them, evil is that which they do.

Do not try to misguide by writing that moderate here refers to something other than what Allah clearly says in the ayah. That is, there is a party that follow a moderate course and that is Islam in front of Allah. Rest are not following moderate course and thus are not following Islam but are evil.

Ayah is clear, that it is about those that follow religion moderately (a party of them keeping to the moderate course).

It is clear from ayah that there is a party amongst Muslims that follow religion moderately, and there is another party amongst Muslims that do not follow religion moderately. Allah has called party that does not follow religion moderately, as party of evil. Though they are following religion, they are not following Islam moderately, hence are misguided, ignorant and evil.

Allah mentioned Moderate as a course that Muslims follow. It is clear that Allah is talking about following a course, a particular course that Allah calls moderate course (here moderate is adjective), Allah is not talking about not following a course (that means, not following Islam).

Obviously, if there is moderate course (as Allah mentions), it automatically means that there is another course that is not moderate, that is according to Allah is course of evil. That course cannot be anything but extreme course, as below moderate course is, not following any course, in other words, not following Islam.

Thus, if there is any course that is there and is followed, but that is not moderate course, than that has to be extreme course. Any one can understand that if there is two party, one is called moderate, then what other party would be? Any idiot would tell that this other party would be party of extremists. Same is true about course. If there is moderate course, other course would be extreme course.

** These misguided so-called Muslims of today (who are in reality worse then Jews and Christians of past, worse than Kafirs) belongs to the party of extremists. They misinterpret Islam and follow kufr in the name of Islam. They do follow a course, that course is course of extremism. It cannot be said that they are not following any course. Thus they are considered as extremists, following extreme course.

** They interpret Islam in way that is not what Allah has revealed, but they take everything there in Quran and use all excuses to misinterpret it into extremism. That is why Allah has said in Quran, that they bray like Ass (they talk like idiots, using interpretations out of context, and do not interpret what is there in Quran the way Allah meant it to be, in moderate way).

Just imagine, even to say that there is no such thing as moderate, means extremism. Anyone that says that there is no such thing as moderates cannot be called anything but extremists. People who are extremists belong to party of extremists and they have conflicts with party of moderates. In Quran 5:66, Allah is clear about them who are in party of extremists (opposite to those who are in party of moderates).** Allah calls people who are in party of extremists as evil (5:66), arrogant and bray like Ass (31:18-19). I hope that all Muslims should know that and should keep away from 'party of extremists'.

** When you die, do not say that Allah did not warn about extremists in Quran. Allah is clear about them (extremists) in Quran, and there would be no excuse after death. Allah message is clear. If anyone would be in party of extremists and because of that would end up in hell, it is only they to blame, no one else. Many from party of extremists have already gone to hell using fast lane (suicide). Many, including many so-called scholars, have already registered themselves amongst Kafir in front of Allah (Because of takfeer). Believe me, I am serious.

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Re: Moderate Muslims?

before deciding who goes to hell or heaven which makes u sound like one of the extremists which u detest so much] plz first define what is " the reference point" to quote USResident for a moderate and extremist ...i have my definations in post#31

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Re: Moderate Muslims?

If you read my post, you would find clearly whom I mean extremists. I believe, most who read my post know who I mean.

No extremist would say that they are extremists.** I can give a guideline and you can give another guideline. It could not solve anything. It would be all opinions. **Nevertheless, I am sure that my posts are clear, though it does not matter, as all knows who the extremists are.

One thing is clear. Masses (Muslims and non-Muslims, all human creations of Allah) know who are extremists and they call them extremists too. Even those that are extremists know in their heart about the identity of extremists, even though they, as any extremists, consider that they are labelled wrongly and are not extremists; nevertheless, they know that they are known as extremists. It is natural that none considers that they are extremists because in their heart all know that to be extremists is wrong (many also know that extremists are jahannumi, even though not necessary in that obvious way).

**So, the best way is to leave that question on individuals and I believe that most know the answer. I trust people intelligence and I believe that Allah has given enough intelligence to all to know between right and wrong. **Only requirement is about using that intelligence sincerely, that most do not. Iblis make sure that they do not use intelligence but follow instructions and beliefs blindly (are brainwashed). Many are slave to their own self ego and would not like to accept reality at any cost, even when they know and understand.

Actually, those that do not have enough intelligence to know and distinguish between right and wrong are not going through test of this world (they are majnun). People who are responsible of them would be questioned of their wrongs*.*** Anyhow, I can only explain a bit about why extremists are jahannumi.

Some reasons: Because most sins (and actions) of extremists relates to other people and affects other people. All people that Allah has created are equal to Allah. They are his creations, be they belonging to any race, colour, religion, or creed. None of Allah’s creation on their own right are better then others of his creations. All are going through test of their life, not anyone else life.

Allah is forgiving and may forgive sins related to him, but other people are humans and they will never forgive sins related to them (especially when they are not asked for forgiveness in this world and have died). Allah being just would never forgive sins related to other people (his other creations), unless they forgive.

Hence, sins of extremists are unpardonable sins. Most of extremist sins are severe and causes pain and suffering to many. Thus it is certain that their sins would lead them to hell.

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Re: Moderate Muslims?

psyah,

extremes are not moderate. and moderate may become suspect of innovation due to mis leading appearance that is reflected on it, on purpose.

kinaat pasandi
modesty
piety
is nothing but moderation.
balance is taught in many examples in Quran, only if we see it and learn to seek that balance in our deeds.
ur arguments from submission as believers of Islamic faith, obligated to the will of Almighty as human beings is not free of the conjunction error that lies in mixing up religion with self knowledge. religion is indeed more important than
the self, but in order for the self to follow religion, the self must fully up hold religion as best as it can, in its entirety.

i hope that you agree with this:
wherever there is room for not doing so, there we have to let go of the God-fearing and enter in with reasoning why God's fear is necessary.

perhaps, that will help people familiarize themselves with the ethics of doing what they did and do, and also make them see what they did not do, and failed at either due to absence of self awareness or due to non committed-ness with the injunctions of religious norms, and teachings.
but, if the religious teachings are being tainted by select few to maintain a certain type of control on the rest of the people and their faithfulness, then it is better to be moderates than to devote themselves to extreme shapes and forms of religious righteousness.

dushwari

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Re: Moderate Muslims?

All sort of extremists........you mean religious and non religious......yeah, religious ones are orthodox jews and non religious are zionists.

may be another conspiracy theory.

I dont think armughal is a member of Al qaeda or salafis. He is just a muslim.

Islam is the golden middle way............