Re: MNA wants alcohol ban lifted - WAY TO GO GUYS!!!!!
Whether musharraf is an alcoholic or not shouldnt be the issue. Is there any merit in the idea that alcohol is an acceptable alternative for youngsters than drugs. I think there is. Why they take drugs is the same reason as why they take alcohol so it can subsitutute for it, the real "advantage" is that alcohol is a lot less dangerous than drugs, despite what everyone here seems to believe. You cannot equate the dangers of alcohol to the dangers of drugs there's simply no comparison.
Re: MNA wants alcohol ban lifted - WAY TO GO GUYS!!!!!
You assume that they will stop taking drugs and take alcohol instead.
People who I knew at university who did drugs ALSO did alcohol. They are not substitutes for each other.
If legalising alcohol would stop people getting addicted to drugs, then the USA, UK, Canada, Europe would not have drug problems at all! Alcohol is legal there and all you get are alcohol-drinking drug addicts!
Re: MNA wants alcohol ban lifted - WAY TO GO GUYS!!!
People you knew at university are a socially confined irrelevant sampling. There are theories from academics that you can treat alcohol addiction with types of drugs, so why not the other way round. It is possible it’s already been tested, will have to look. Drug substitution theory is described here,
Over recent decades the drink problem in the British Isles has grown to become arguably the worst in the Western World; combining the high average alcohol intake of southern Europe with binge-drinking typical of extreme latitudes. Since the problem continues to worsen, and traditional strategies regulating price and access are probably untenable, radical new alcohol policies are required. The drug-substitution strategy is based on an assumption that most people use lifestyle drugs rationally for self-medication purposes, to achieve specific desired psychological effects - especially enhanced well-being. When there is access to an equally-effective but safer alternative drug, then people would tend to switch to it (especially when the substitute is legal and socially-acceptable). There are several safer lifestyle drug-substitutes for alcohol; including benzodiazepines, SSRIs and marijuana. Southern Europeans use alcohol mainly as an anxiolytic social lubricant, taken in low but frequent doses with high annual per capita consumption; and for this pattern benzodiazepines might be a medically safer lifestyle drug-substitute. Northern Europeans traditionally use alcohol in high doses as a euphoric intoxicant; and for this pattern marijuana might be a safer and less-antisocial substitute. Since this risk-benefit calculus implies that there are better alternatives to alcohol, government policy should promote safer lifestyle drug-substitutes by removing legal barriers and altering the balance of economic and social incentives. http://www.hedweb.com/bgcharlton/drugsub.html
Re: MNA wants alcohol ban lifted - WAY TO GO GUYS!!!!!
and the award goes to.......drug mafia, supported and organized by the so-called jihadi outfits. As we wud say in good old Karachi, left ka dekhakay right ko murgia. Its a shimee dudes, keep the general public thinking, talking and debating irrelevant issues while their business continues unabated and unchecked.
Re: MNA wants alcohol ban lifted - WAY TO GO GUYS!!!
blah,blah, blah, you previously have made many accusations, such as previous govts made BILLIONS in corruption.
Provide a link to show the billions, and acct details as proof, not just a couple case’s totalling a few million. You can’t, but that doesn’t mean it’s not true.
There are things people in Pakistan know, whether Western papers cover them is another matter.
Amreeka kee puttar, stick to your own country, you don’t have a clue about what goes on in Pakistan:nono:
Re: MNA wants alcohol ban lifted - WAY TO GO GUYS!!!!!
Those who suggest alcohol as an alternative are most likely acting on their own desires, and do not have the interests of the demographic that is hardest hit by the drug problem (namely the poor).
Heroin is attractive exactly because of it's specific physiological effects...alcohol does not provide the same state of mind.
I'm afraid those who are looking to legalize alcohol are those who perhaps belong to a certain strata of Pakistani society who are quite well off...perhaps they're simply sick of the inconvenience of having to consume within private areas...
Re: MNA wants alcohol ban lifted - WAY TO GO GUYS!!!!!
This is absurd. Drugs are not legal either, yet they have access to them. From what I understand, it's a heck of a lot easier producing something like vodka than having your own grow-op...this isn't about access.
For all intents and purposes, alcohol already is an alternative...and it's a rejected one.
Perhaps this argument would have merit if drugs were legal...
Re: MNA wants alcohol ban lifted - WAY TO GO GUYS!!!!!
I think it makes a lot of sense to remove the ban on alcohol but that wouldn't have that much effect on cutting down drug addiction. Other measures are required to cut down drug addiction.
Banning alcohol altogether is meaningless - anyone who has any contact (not even high or medium level) with military knows that a MAJORITY of the armed forces drink regularly as well as provide a somewhat 'cheaper' source for civilians to acquired the 'bottles' than other black market avenues.
The shots at Musharaf and his womanizing or lack thereof is entirely misplaced in this otherwise useful thread.
Re: MNA wants alcohol ban lifted - WAY TO GO GUYS!!!!!
Heroin is attractive exactly because of it's specific physiological effects...alcohol does not provide the same state of mind.
I'm afraid those who are looking to legalize alcohol are those who perhaps belong to a certain strata of Pakistani society who are quite well off...perhaps they're simply sick of the inconvenience of having to consume within private areas...
If you knew anything about psychology or the effects of drugs, you'd know that different drugs exert different effects, and alcohol addiction and drug addiction have one thing in common, they both provide an "escape" for the person. So, whichever one is less harmful for these addicts would be the better choice for them.
Re: MNA wants alcohol ban lifted - WAY TO GO GUYS!!!!!
Alcohol is already available from similar sources to those who provide drugs; the ban is not biased towards one or the other. Therefore, the ban of alcohol as a reason for people moving to harder drugs simply does not make sense, regardless of one's invocation of highly theoretical (and irrelevant) arguments.
This is a matter of choice, and in this case the choice has been made. Suggesting that promoting one over the other will help the situation is equally absurd, and seems to be a good idea only to those who stand to make a profit from the legalization of alcohol.
In either case, you never placate addicts or drug seeking behavior...that simply does not work.
In any case, hard drug users rarely, if ever, look for "safer" alternatives...
Re: MNA wants alcohol ban lifted - WAY TO GO GUYS!!!
Hard to swallow, since the only ones who seemed to be able to halt the growth of the substance were the Taliban.
In any case, if the Jihadis have no problem dealing drugs, they would have no problems introducing another product to market…namely booze. This angle makes no sense…is this really a common view, that allowing alcohol will stem the drug trade? :halo:
Re: MNA wants alcohol ban lifted - WAY TO GO GUYS!!!!!
This isn't true. Drugs are easily available in Pakistan. Pakistan's Western neighbour is one of the biggest drug producers in the world with a third of its GDP coming from drug production and selling. It's all about supply & demand. A bottle of spirit is more expensive than getting their hands on some drugs from Karzai land.
[QUOTE]
This is a matter of choice, and in this case the choice has been made. Suggesting that promoting one over the other will help the situation is equally absurd, and seems to be a good idea only to those who stand to make a profit from the legalization of alcohol.
[/QUOTE]
The point is that alcohol is not the same as drugs. Drugs, whatever people might say, are more dangerous than alcohol,or can be. Isn't it better to accept the lesser of the two ills in this case?
[QUOTE]
In either case, you never placate addicts or drug seeking behavior...that simply does not work.
In any case, hard drug users rarely, if ever, look for "safer" alternatives...
[/quote]
They might not look for safer alternatives in poor countries, though they would if they had any sense. They would seek the cheapest alternative in those poorer countries though definitely.
Re: MNA wants alcohol ban lifted - WAY TO GO GUYS!!!!!
i am unable to understand and grasp how anyone else apart from the MNA who made the statement could even agree with him on the 'supposed point' and say the same thing...
how exactly is one of them minor and the other a major evil!!
if the alcohol wasnt banned, we would have both the evils in abundance..
lifting the ban on alcohol would not decrease the number of drug users, rather would increase alcoholics and the present & future generation would be worse off..it wouldnt improve things for Pakistan..it would create more problems..
how can one even put that forward as a 'point'...give people alcohol to stop them from taking drugs?!?!?
would poor people who take drugs even be able to afford to replace drugs with alcohol?!
the countries where alcohol is legal, do people there not take drugs!?!
i tell you they do..and no the alcohol doesnt stop them
Re: MNA wants alcohol ban lifted - WAY TO GO GUYS!!!!!
how exactly is one of them minor and the other a major evil!!
if the alcohol wasnt banned, we would have both the evils in abundance..
lifting the ban on alcohol would not decrease the number of drug users, rather would increase alcoholics and the present & future generation would be worse off..it wouldnt improve things for Pakistan..it would create more problems..
how can one even put that forward as a 'point'...give people alcohol to stop them from taking drugs?!?!?
would poor people who take drugs even be able to afford to replace drugs with alcohol?!
the countries where alcohol is legal, do people there not take drugs!?!
i tell you they do..and no the alcohol doesnt stop them
he's not talking about legalizing it for everyone. duhhhh
