MMA against teaching pre-islamic history

[mAd_ScIeNtIsT]

Re: MMA against teaching pre-islamic history

@Spock

MS, how about both of them, the history of previous civilizations as well as the present one? More knowledge, is always good dont u agree? Ure good with history, im sure u’ll agree with that.

More knowledge is always good, but can be acquired through either breadth (studying more historical periods) or through depth (studying few periods but going into more detail on each)

I favour depth - there should be mandatory in-depth study of the most relevant history; rather than focusing on studying a civilisation that preceded your own but contributed very little to it.

The primary purpose of history is to better understand your own civilisation. Just as in my own history classes at school, we didn’t really cover pre-modern civilisation in Britain, I don’t see the need to mandate study of pre-modern civilisation in Pakistan.

It’s not that I’m embarassed on Pakistan’s pre-Islamic past or anything - I love reading about all history, particularly the Greek kingdom that succeeded Alexander the Great’s conquest and ruled over most of northern India including Pakistan.

But those past civilisations are so irrelevant that they should not be mandatory study. Instead they should be left for advanced academics such as at university.

[ravage]

Re: MMA against teaching pre-islamic history

completely agree MS.

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: MMA against teaching pre-islamic history

@Spock

MS, how about both of them, the history of previous civilizations as well as the present one? More knowledge, is always good dont u agree? Ure good with history, im sure u’ll agree with that.

I agree with that.

[ravage]

Re: MMA against teaching pre-islamic history

this is one of the few times where the mullas make a useful contribution to the political arena. good going :k:

[Iconoclast]

Re: MMA against teaching pre-islamic history

@mAd_ScIeNtIsT

More knowledge is always good, but can be acquired through either breadth (studying more historical periods) or through depth (studying few periods but going into more detail on each)

I favour depth - there should be mandatory in-depth study of the most relevant history; rather than focusing on studying a civilisation that preceded your own but contributed very little to it.

The primary purpose of history is to better understand your own civilisation. Just as in my own history classes at school, we didn't really cover pre-modern civilisation in Britain, I don't see the need to mandate study of pre-modern civilisation in Pakistan.

It's not that I'm embarassed on Pakistan's pre-Islamic past or anything - I love reading about all history, particularly the Greek kingdom that succeeded Alexander the Great's conquest and ruled over most of northern India including Pakistan.

But those past civilisations are so irrelevant that they should not be mandatory study. Instead they should be left for advanced academics such as at university.

Maddy tum itni aqal ki batain bhi ker saktey ho mujhey pata nahiN tha.

[Iconoclast]

Re: MMA against teaching pre-islamic history

By the way, i am all for teaching Pre-Islamic history of India, bcoz it will help people appreciate Islam more.

[ravage]

Re: MMA against teaching pre-islamic history

especially if people like me, you or maddie write it. i'd say lajawab too but it would become all about the 6 million Iraqies then.

[Das_Reich]

Re: MMA against teaching pre-islamic history

I agree that ALL history should be studied if we want a better understanding of our present
but what MMA is against probably the idea psuedo-intellectuals like aitizaz ahsan are projecting that origin of pakistan are not in religion but differeces in culture and civilization. As he takes a lot of pride in ancient civilizations of indus valley.
I think MMA is right in this respect if we base creation of paksitan on this then it completely negates the basis of partition

[Seminole]

Re: MMA against teaching pre-islamic history

To only study one's own history - be it Pakistani, Indian, American or British breeds ignorance. Because of the global reach of culture today, no society has developed in a cocoon. They are all interelated. To n

[PyariCgudia]

Re: MMA against teaching pre-islamic history

Lajawab, that is inaccurate. I know that I was schooled in grade school about the entire history of the American continent, starting from when humans first migrated into the North American continent (current American Indians, and other indigenous populations) until present day history.

Stop defending people just because they have a beard and they say things about Islam. Doesn't make everything they say correct.

Where in Islam does it say that you cannot teach your children about historical matters, even if they be from time periods before Islam?

[UrbanPK]

Re: MMA against teaching pre-islamic history

All these people want to do is keep the Pakistani public ignorant so people keep voting for them. Let them walk out for all the National Assembly sessions, but do not let them stunt the growth of Pakistan for even one day.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: MMA against teaching pre-islamic history

@mAd_ScIeNtIsT

More knowledge is always good, but can be acquired through either breadth (studying more historical periods) or through depth (studying few periods but going into more detail on each)

I favour depth - there should be mandatory in-depth study of the most relevant history; rather than focusing on studying a civilisation that preceded your own but contributed very little to it.

The primary purpose of history is to better understand your own civilisation. Just as in my own history classes at school, we didn't really cover pre-modern civilisation in Britain, I don't see the need to mandate study of pre-modern civilisation in Pakistan.

It's not that I'm embarassed on Pakistan's pre-Islamic past or anything - I love reading about all history, particularly the Greek kingdom that succeeded Alexander the Great's conquest and ruled over most of northern India including Pakistan.

But those past civilisations are so irrelevant that they should not be mandatory study. Instead they should be left for advanced academics such as at university.

Just because Indus civilations, etc that existed in present-day Pakistan were not Islamic in nature, doesn't mean there is little utility in studying them. In fact, if anything, studying how those people irrigated their lands, travelled through the terrain, traded, grew crops, dealt with weathering patterns, etc are all of relevance. A history of Saudia Arabia will not give you that same insight, because their land terrain is totally different.

And oh lets not forget the very minor point of how our ancestors became muslims, and what they were doing before Islam and maybe how that can give us some insight into why some of our cultural practices being passed off as Islamic have no basis in Islam. Like sexism, mehndi ceremonies, theories on fertility, the procedures of chailum, niyaaz, etc.

[mAd_ScIeNtIsT]

Re: MMA against teaching pre-islamic history

@PyariCgudia

Just because Indus civilations, etc that existed in present-day Pakistan were not Islamic in nature, doesn’t mean there is little utility in studying them. In fact, if anything, studying how those people irrigated their lands, travelled through the terrain, traded, grew crops, dealt with weathering patterns, etc are all of relevance. A history of Saudia Arabia will not give you that same insight, because their land terrain is totally different.

And oh lets not forget the very minor point of how our ancestors became muslims, and what they were doing before Islam and maybe how that can give us some insight into why some of our cultural practices being passed off as Islamic have no basis in Islam. Like sexism, mehndi ceremonies, theories on fertility, the procedures of chailum, niyaaz, etc.

It’s not relevant, because modern technology provides different ways of irrigation, travel, trade, farming etc.

At the end of the day, the study of history by schoolchildren is realistically there to encourage nationalistic feeling, a sense of pride in your nation. Your nation began not with independence or union or whatever, but with the civilisation that spawned it. Previous civilisations that lived there are coincidental and not relevant.

Whilst they should not be ignored, they should be relegated to optional advanced study, such as universities.

[roadrunner]

Re: MMA against teaching pre-islamic history

^^ Every Paki in Pakistan should know the Vedic Civilization was a Paki civilization - use of genetics, Vedic scriptures etc. Every Paki should know that the Indus Valley civilization was a Paki civilization mainly, achievements etc. So it should be on the curriculum at middle school at least. This is what identifies what a Paki is to some. Some Pakis claim to be only Muslim and not Pakistani, fine, they can be that, and some Pakis might wish to know who they really are and what their ancestors were up to. They will get their information from this stuff being on middle school compulsory curricula. They can go advanced in universities if they want to know more, but they should have a basic understanding of where they come from. No point in letting hind steal it all, and feeling all great about someone elses history.

[Spock]

Re: MMA against teaching pre-islamic history

@PyariCgudia

Just because Indus civilations, etc that existed in present-day Pakistan were not Islamic in nature, doesn't mean there is little utility in studying them. In fact, if anything, studying how those people irrigated their lands, travelled through the terrain, traded, grew crops, dealt with weathering patterns, etc are all of relevance. A history of Saudia Arabia will not give you that same insight, because their land terrain is totally different.

And oh lets not forget the very minor point of how our ancestors became muslims, and what they were doing before Islam and maybe how that can give us some insight into why some of our cultural practices being passed off as Islamic have no basis in Islam. Like sexism, mehndi ceremonies, theories on fertility, the procedures of chailum, niyaaz, etc.

I agree, one of the most enjoyable things about going to school was learning about the Indus civilization, perhaps the oldest civilization in the world, gandhara, and then when you can go and relive all of it through Taxila, Harappa etc, that is education at its best. It would be a shame to take that away.

[Pakora]

Re: MMA against teaching pre-islamic history

Damn!!! MMA They are all Homo-Sexuals.

whether its " Ghulam ali (Nazim Peshawar)......................................... ,(Keep of maulana fazul-ur-rehman).............But 99% and I would say again 99 % of * Maulana's * are HOMOSEXUALS....................

[system]

Re: MMA against teaching pre-islamic history

@PyariCgudia

Just because Indus civilations, etc that existed in present-day Pakistan were not Islamic in nature, doesn’t mean there is little utility in studying them. In fact, if anything, studying how those people irrigated their lands, travelled through the terrain, traded, grew crops, dealt with weathering patterns, etc are all of relevance. A history of Saudia Arabia will not give you that same insight, because their land terrain is totally different.

And oh lets not forget the very minor point of how our ancestors became muslims, and what they were doing before Islam and maybe how that can give us some insight into why some of our cultural practices being passed off as Islamic have no basis in Islam. Like sexism, mehndi ceremonies, theories on fertility, the procedures of chailum, niyaaz, etc.

Why should history in general be studied? If they see no point in studying about the Indus civilization or any other for that matter, then what is to be gained from studying Islamic history?!?!? These people dont understand the premise on which study of History is based, so is it any surprise what they say?!

[system]

Re: MMA against teaching pre-islamic history

@Spock

I agree, one of the most enjoyable things about going to school was learning about the Indus civilization, perhaps the oldest civilization in the world, gandhara, and then when you can go and relive all of it through Taxila, Harappa etc, that is education at its best. It would be a shame to take that away.

Im shocked how little Pakistani students are taught about history! Stuff that is common knowledge in the West is compleltely unknown in Pakistan… Ofcourse the better schools are different but in general, history in Pak is really negelected and what is taught isnt taught very well… Any move in the right direction is a good one.

[Spock]

Re: MMA against teaching pre-islamic history

@PaKpatriot1

Im shocked how little Pakistani students are taught about history! Stuff that is common knowledge in the West is compleltely unknown in Pakistan... Ofcourse the better schools are different but in general, history in Pak is really negelected and what is taught isnt taught very well... Any move in the right direction is a good one.

I think the well known private schools are doing a wonderful job in Pakistan. I remember studying about the history of the various religions in grade 7, and our principal, who was a Canadian Christian missionary came to lecture us about Christianity, and then he made sure we got to study about Islamic history through a very well known Islamic scholar, and he even tried for a Buddhist monk through the embassy who came for a single lecture only. Having studied the history of these religions through them is something I will never forget.

The MMA should really open up their mindsets. I am pretty sure they will be routed in this elections so this is hardly an issue, the ANP, a much more sensible party will make a strong comeback this time in NWFP.

[roadrunner]

Re: MMA against teaching pre-islamic history

^ ^ My guess is PPP will do well in NWFP this time. But at least they'll cast aside those idiots.