ISlam came to change society not for society to change islam!
Well that experiment failed. Ak brother...now what?
what's funny is when people fight over religious issues which may in fact have been borrowed or influenced by the cultures in which the religion survived.
No religion remains pure.. Culture is all powerfull and has mass appeal.. true followers of any religion are few and far between and they get replaced by appeasers and shrewd power mongers who know the ways to pull people's strings is by adding more cultural appeal and portray it as religion.
then all are happy.. except the religion suffers.
**Originally posted by Madhanee: *
Changeez, because Jews are a race and trace their ancestry back to Judea, hence Hebrew. On the one hand you Molvi types say that Islam is a Universal religion, but Prayers can only be offered in Arabic? Isn’t that a bit of an oxymoron?*
Thats not any oxymoron. That would be Ummah-building :p
*What’s wrong with offering Prayers in Punjabi or Chinese? And by the way, Reformed Jews offer prayers in their native tongues. *
go ahead and gal kar taadi numaaz apni zuban wich
**Originally posted by Matsui: *
Well that experiment failed. Ak brother...now what? *
no, it didn't.... there was no experiment :p
changez
that is correct, it was a success and again it will be.
ISlam is not windows 98 it dont need no upgrade!
Yeah but the current infra cannot support the obsolete version of this religious software.
Religion is the 'culture' of the land in which it is/was founded.
Like Islam is the culture of saudi arabia....now you know why it is so difficult for you to follow, it was never meant for you. Gleeeez!
See it as an arab imperialism imposed on its colonies.
Otherwise why was arabic script imposed over the native language where ever it went....wot was so good about Arabic, that other indo-european script like sindhi lippi and farsi didn't have?...and why would some a paki or a bangladeshi woman wear the dresscode of Saudi arabia, and roost herself to death in hot humid climate? pray! Wots is the logic!! Dont say allah likes it...i ve never heard him saying that!
And why greet each other in the arab way? and offer the prayers the way they do in their language...and leave as per their customs?
and look at the slavish mentality, you also want to perfect it....HaHa you all are really funny!
^ Religion and culture are both different things ...
define religion without mixing culture in it?
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*Originally posted by soul: *
define religion without mixing culture in it?
[/QUOTE]
Religion is what is in Quran and sunnah and hidayats. i.e you follow the religion to make your creator happy.
Culture is how we actually live. i.e. to make our selves and other people around us happy.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by kewlsolara: *
**Religion is what is in Quran and sunnah and hidayats. i.e you follow the religion to make your creator happy.
Culture is how we actually live. i.e. to make our selves and other people around us happy.
[/QUOTE]
**
wow. That's a really accurate definition, i think.
i have a question for you. What does “gleeeez” mean ?
**
Funnier still for someone persisting in interacting in a Forum considering you have absolutely nothing positive to say about anything remotely related with Islam or Muslims.
[QUOTE]
Religion is what is in Quran and sunnah and hidayats. i.e you follow the religion to make your creator happy.
[/QUOTE]
koran talks about biblical characters and their stories, thats related to the region it was born in....
it talks about lot of other stuff like seven heaven and hell and prayers five times a day, which is cut and paste from zorastrian avesta......and everybody in that region anyway can relate to it....It was a custom than to follow all these....there is nothing new!!
Haddits are biography of yor prophet and his associates...and their lives..which is again as per the tradition and culture that prevailed at that time....
There were women in saudi arabia who wore hijab or burkha anyway, even before islam or koran gave it a new significance ....it was a custom and the dresscode of the region...jews, christians pagans all used to wear it...
besides they all used to consider kaaba holy and stoned the pillar and sacrifice goats in honour of abraham...
and the greeting too was the same for all...
And so were shariat laws,whichhave their link with bible...esp stonning or chipping off hands...
** It was not ISLAM that introduced all these!! It just improvised it... **
So big deal, islam in many way is the continuation of the culture that prevailed in S arabia....or Middle east on the whole....
If you are following all these as islamic religion...than its s arabian culture....imposed on its colonises.
Like hinduism is the culture of hind.
On the broader scale all religions are based on the culture and period of the dominant land it was formed in.
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i have a question for you. What does "gleeeez" mean ?
[/QUOTE]
Nadia, do you know the name of pagan moon god the one who had three daughters]? find it ....you will know teh meaning behind my gleeeeezzzz!!
^Islam was not the continuation of the culture that prevailed in Saudi Arabia. At that time of jahiliyya, Arabs weren't following any pure religion. There is no presence of a Prophet recorded after Jesus/Isa. Therefore, Isa's teachings were corrupted and as PakistaniAbroad mentioned earlier:
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No religion remains pure.
[/QUOTE]
There were additions made to the beliefs and the actual teachings of Isa were misconstrued. Upon the revelation of Quran, it was made clear thru the Prophet (pbuh) that Quran conveys the same teachings that was conveyed thru other books plus it also clears doubts people have about religious, political, or cultural standards. Infact, Surahs (Chapters) in Quran are also grouped in four categories; each holding a significant importance. They are classified as Al-Tiwal, Al-Mi'un, Al-Mathani, and Al-Mufassal. According to scholars, Al-Tiwal summarizes the book of Psalms, Al-Mi'un summarizes Torah, Al-Mathani replaces Gospel, and Al-Mufassal is the category that was revealed upon Muhammad (pbuh). [If anybody needs more info about these categories, I would certainly do that.]
Although, Quran was revealed on an Arab orphan, it comprises all the teachings that were revealed in other books and holding the status of The Holy Book for the Muslim Ummah. Whoever believes in Islam, believes in Quran and since Quran and Sunnah consists of detailed explanation of every issue regarding life, Islam is automatically elevated to the status of the universal religion.
[QUOTE]
Islam was not the continuation of the culture that prevailed in Saudi Arabia.
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no the contrary it is. I would suggest you to read lil' about pre-islamic culture in that region before commenting on this.
Cultures are not invented by god or any prophet.....its a countinious evolving process of human soceity... religions adopts cultures .. its not the other way round.
this is a good article on pre-islamic culture
The Sabaeans, however, lived on two major two trade routes: one was the ocean-trading route between Africa and India. The harbors of the southwest were centers of commerce with these two continents and the luxury items, such as spices, imported from these countries. But the Sabaean region also lay at the southern terminus of land-based trade routes up and down the coast of the Arabian peninsula. Goods would travel down this land-route to be exported to Africa or India and goods from Africa and India would travel north on this land-route.
This latter trade route had tremendous consequences for the Arabs in the north and the subsequent history of Islam. For all along this trade route grew major trading cities and the wealth of the south filtered north into these cities. It was in one such Arabian city, Mecca, that Islam would begin.
The most important of these Bedouin achievements, however, was the conquest of Mecca by the tribe of the Quraysh around 500 AD. Mecca had already become a religious center of Arabic culture as its name suggests—one possible derivation of the name, “Mecca,” is the word, “makorba,” or “temple.” The religion of the pre-Islamic Arabs was a mixture of Bedouin polytheism, Judaism, and a little bit of Christianity. The pre-Islamic Arabs worshipped three goddesses, al-Lat, al-Uzza, and Manat, who were all daughters of one god, Allah—this one god was probably derived from the monotheistic religions of Judaism and Christianity. Mecca was the center of this religion with its Ka’ba, or “Cube,” which served as the temple for the religion.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by soul: *
no the contrary it is.
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Most of the people in that region were idolators at that time and there was a bunch of Rabis and Priests but none of them followed the original and pure form of Christianity or Judaism.
Galaxy,
Plz note, there are other books in this world worth refering to, other than Koran.
I dont want to know, why Islam was invented...
I am trying to tell you that, Much of wot you practise today as ISLAMIC RELIGION, is derived in pristine or revised form, from the old pre-islamic ARAB CULTURE. Did you understand?
GOD and prophet doesnot invent cultures and traditions out of no where...Cultures/traditions are evolving process in the human soceity....When a religion is formed..it absorbs the culture of that land...that is how ppl of that land relate to it....
Than how can you say, islam is not the continuation of pre-islamic ARAB culture?
Rvik, that was a good search...
i asked Faizal and Nadia to search for the name of pagan moon god...And you made things easy for them by coping it here....
** Yes! the name of the Pagan moon god was- 'ALLAH'...
So even the name of your supreme being that you bow to 5 times a day is taken from pagan culture...leave alone worship at kaaba and wearing burkha. **
If Allah is the real name of GOD, than how were pagans wrong or jahilyaa?
And how is islam that is arabian in ideology, a universal religion...
*Originally posted by soul: *
koran talks about biblical characters and their stories, thats related to the region it was born in…
It is so hard for some people to digest that Judaism, Christianity, Islam originated from one same source, Allah. If there is anything common its because of that, and the differences are due to location and time.
it talks about lot of other stuff like seven heaven and hell and prayers five times a day, which is cut and paste from zorastrian avesta…and everybody in that region anyway can relate to it…It was a custom than to follow all these…there is nothing new!!
It is so easy for you to relate now, 1000 years later every jack will be claiming that Koran was a copy and paste from some website.
Haddits are biography of yor prophet and his associates…and their lives..which is again as per the tradition and culture that prevailed at that time…
Yes, but that does not tell us that we have to imitate them. Their are things which we take as our guidlines and basis for moral values… just like America and other countries took bible as their basis for moral values.
There were women in saudi arabia who wore hijab or burkha anyway, even before islam or koran gave it a new significance …it was a custom and the dresscode of the region…jews, christians pagans all used to wear it…
Yeah, and all those women wore the burqa/hijab the way people do in Pakistan, Iran and other parts.
besides they all used to consider kaaba holy and stoned the pillar and sacrifice goats in honour of abraham…
Yes, again, its because Islam is not a totally new religion, it has same roots as “Judaism”, “Christianity” and others.
and the greeting too was the same for all…
And so were shariat laws,whichhave their link with bible…esp stonning or chipping off hands…
Should I repeat what I said above? :halo:
** It was not ISLAM that introduced all these!! It just improvised it… **
-ditto-
So big deal, islam in many way is the continuation of the culture that prevailed in S arabia…or Middle east on the whole…
Yes, Islam is continuation of Judaism, Christianity (not for trinity or other inventions).
If you are following all these as islamic religion…than its s arabian culture…imposed on its colonises.
and if we start following “Christianity” it won’t be S Arabian culture imposed on colonies?
**Like hinduism is the culture of hind.
On the broader scale all religions are based on the culture and period of the dominant land it was formed in.**
No, all religions have “provision” of local culture, esp Islam does not demand to give up all of your culture (unless all of it is agains its principles).