Misconceptions.

I was following some interesting articles posted by “The Watcher”, and reading them I would have to agree that none of those articles were in no way offensive (as precluded by Rani and Banta Singh). In addition, I am a Sikh person, and I’ve seen very common similarities between Sikhism and Islam.

In summary.

Sikhism

  1. Montheistic. Belief in One God, he is the truth, the all-powerful etc.

  2. No idol-worship, although these days some Sikhs put pictures of the Guru’s, although the Guru’s are not divine entity of God, but as the first Guru Nanak Dev Ji had said, that noone is to be worshipped but God himself. Therefore, Sikh’s who do have paintings and such of the Guru’s are in fact disobeying the first rule!

  3. Sikh’s are actually allowed to eat meat, regardless of what any orthodox Sikh says. Sikhism doesn’t specifically say whether meat should be eaten or not. All that is said is not to eat “Halal” meat, as Sikh’s find it a cruel butchery to an animal who has lost his life for your hunger. Instead to make it peaceful for the animal, a quick kill is sufficient , hence the term “Jhatka”, and that is what Sikh’s eat, “Jhatka” meat, and it can be of any animal, usually Goat. In addition, the Nihang Sikh’s encourage the eating of meat. In addition, Guru Nanak was also a meat-eater.

  4. No-Alcohol. This is specifically mentioned, due to the fact being intoxicated doesn’t let you have a true relationship with God, you’re not really praying/meditating if you’re drunk, in addition it also would make you clumsy in Battle. Although, not being a very religious Sikh. I drink alcohol.

  5. No Pork. This usually comes as a personal preference. Due to the fact, Pork is simply meat of an animal that frolics in it’s own feces and consumes it’s own fesces. Hence the term “you are what you eat”, if a pig eats feces, he thus is feces, if you eat pig (which is feces), you are
    fecus, clever but true.

Differences from Islam.

Concept of Reincarnation.
Cremation instead of Burial.

Sikhism is a religion that has inherited varioius traits from Islam and Hinduism, it in no way has tried to ‘pick’ out the best aspects out of both, but it was a reform from both into one, thus the concept of Reincarnation was inherited from Hinduism. Although, I don’t understand why, this is left to my other Sikh brothers who have studied the Granth Sahib more than me.

Cremation is simply done on the basis that the Guru’s said that your body is simply the vehicle of your soul. It really has no importance, however it should be respected as God has given you your body for a reason. That is why cremation is done, since Sikhism doesn’t see any reason to keep a dead body of a person, when it’s the soul that is more important.

Sikhism does fortell any sort of future. It is designed for people to live an honest, hard working life today. To set goals, and achieve them and to help the growing of society. There is no “judgement” day, life simply goes on as a cycle of death and re-birth.

Arai

Thanks for the "level-headed" opinion. It's refreshing.

arai,

Since you mentioned my name i feel compelled to answer your post. The fundamental principal of Sikhism are (a) all human beings are born equal therefore there is no believer or non-believer and (b) God can be reached by many paths, in other words humans beings can worship God in any way they want or follow any religion they want as long as they are a good human being(make living by honest way, share with less fortunate, remember God and be a family man or women). Sikhism doesn't believe in one set way of worshipping the supreme power. (C) there is no need to actively convert people to Sikhism since all paths lead to one God

The above are the most important principals.
Can you please tell us where Islam stands on these fundamental principals.

P.S. It seems you have very limited knowledge of Sikhism. Sikhism is not a revealed religion it's founded by a great sages who tried to find God and meaning of life and best way to live live. That is why we call them Gurus instead of Prophets. It is very interesting to note that you are mixing your own personal preferences as part of the religion.

[This message has been edited by Rani (edited October 16, 2000).]

Rani, thankyou for your response and input.

[quote]
Originally posted by Rani:
**
The fundamental principal of Sikhism are (a) all human beings are born equal therefore there is no believer or non-believer and (b) God can be reached by many paths, in other words humans beings can worship God in any way they want or follow any religion they want as long as they are a good human being(make living by honest way, share with less fortunate, remember God and be a family man or women). Sikhism doesn't believe in one set way of worshipping the supreme power. (C) there is no need to actively convert people to Sikhism since all paths lead to one God

The above are the most important principals.
**
[/quote]

When I read this I became interested because this was something that I did not know before about Sikhism. But I was somewhat confused when I reached this point, because I had expected some proof of this at least. Especially with your last statement which said these are the most important principles in Sikhism. According to my study (which is nothing much to be sure) of Sikhism's core creed these points were not mentioned explicitly. However I have an idea that I think that will help me to clear these points up in my own mind.

I will tell you what I think the most important principles of Sikhism are and you can tell me whether I'm correct or not. This also applies to arai as well.


Sikhism is a non-Semitic, Aryan, non-Vedic religion. It is a religion that has the sixth largest following in the world. Some consider it as an offshoot of Hinduism. It was founded by Guru Nanak at the end of the 15th century. It originated in the area of Pakistan and North West India called Punjab, meaning the land of the five rivers. Guru Nanak was born in a Kshatriya (warrior caste) Hindu family but was very strongly influenced by Islam and Muslims.

DEFINITION OF SIKH AND SIKHISM

The word 'Sikh' is derived from the word sisya meaning disciple or follower. Sikhism is a religion of ten Gurus, the first Guru being Guru Nanak and the tenth and the last being Guru Gobind Singh. The sacred book of Sikhism is Sri Guru Granth also called Adi Granth Sahib.

THE FIVE - 'K's

Every Sikh is supposed to keep the following five 'K's, which also serve to identify him as a Sikh:
i. Kesh - uncut hair.
ii. Kanga - comb; used to keep the hair clean.
iii. Kada - metal or steel bangle; for strength and self-restraint.
iv. Kirpan - dagger; for self-defence.
v. Kaccha - special knee length underwear or under-drawer for agility.

CONCEPT OF GOD IN SIKHISM:

MULMANTRA: THE FUNDAMENTAL CREED OF SIKHISM

The best definition that any Sikh can give regarding the concept of God in Sikhism is to quote the Mulmantra - the fundamental creed of Sikhism, which occurs at the beginning of Sri Guru Granth Sahib.
It is mentioned in Sri Guru Granth Sahib, volume 1 Japuji, the first verse:

"There exists but one God, who is called The True, The Creator, Free from fear and hate, Immortal, Not begotten, Self-Existent, Great and Compassionate."

Sikhism enjoins its followers to practise strict monotheism. It believes in only One Supreme God who is, in the unmanifest form, called Ek Omkara.
In the manifest form He is called Omkara and has several attributes such as:
Kartar - The Creator
Akal - The Eternal
Sattanama - The Holy Name
Sahib - The Lord
Parvardigar - The Cherisher
Rahim - The Merciful
Karim - The Benevolent

He is also called Wahe Guru - the One true God.
Besides Sikhism being strictly monotheistic, it also does not believe in Avataravada - the doctrine of incarnation. Almighty God does not incarnate Himself in what is known as Avatara. Sikhism is also strongly against idol worship.

Guru Nanak was influenced by Sant Kabir
Guru Nanak was influenced by the sayings of Sant Kabir so much that several chapters of Sri Guru Granth Sahib contain couplets of Sant Kabir.
One of the famous couplets of Sant Kabir is:

"Dukh mein sumirana sabh karein
Sukh mein karein na koya
Jo sukh mein sumirana karein
To dukh kaye hoye?"

"In times of trouble, God is remembered by all
But none remembers Him during peace and happiness.
If God is remembered in good times of happiness
Why should trouble occur?"

Compare this with the following verse of the Qur'an:
"When some trouble toucheth man,
He crieth unto his Lord,
Turning to Him in repentance:
But when He bestoweth
A favour upon him
As from Himself,
(Man) doth forget what he cried
And prayed for before,
And he doth set up
Rivals unto Allah."

[Al-Qur'an 39:8]

The Sikh scriptures therefore emphasise monotheism and God-consciousness.


They shoot partypoopers, don't they?

[This message has been edited by Mr Partypooper (edited October 16, 2000).]

Rani,

If only you were so compelled every time your name is mentioned…

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

[quote]
Originally posted by Rani:
**arai,

Since you mentioned my name i feel compelled to answer your post. The fundamental principal of Sikhism are (a) all human beings are born equal therefore there is no believer or non-believer and (b) God can be reached by many paths, in other words humans beings can worship God in any way they want or follow any religion they want as long as they are a good human being(make living by honest way, share with less fortunate, remember God and be a family man or women). Sikhism doesn't believe in one set way of worshipping the supreme power. (C) there is no need to actively convert people to Sikhism since all paths lead to one God

The above are the most important principals.
Can you please tell us where Islam stands on these fundamental principals.

P.S. It seems you have very limited knowledge of Sikhism. Sikhism is not a revealed religion it's founded by a great sages who tried to find God and meaning of life and best way to live live. That is why we call them Gurus instead of Prophets. It is very interesting to note that you are mixing your own personal preferences as part of the religion.

[This message has been edited by Rani (edited October 16, 2000).]**
[/quote]

You say what? Your own religion does not teach you to be equal Rani. Your own religion does not see hindus are equals. It has divided your own people into pathetic castes and groups. You hinduism doesn't even come close to Islam, it does not give humans rights that Islam does. It does not give women their rights that Islam does. Islam is only way to reach God, there is no other way. Its not your house you are going to, its God we are talking about here. I would try to explain to you but only broad minded and open minded person can understand. Abviously, you are not for apparent reasons.

Sikhism is not revealed religion? Hinduism is? No, it is not.

Take it easy.


*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*

[quote]
Originally posted by The Watcher:
**
I would try to explain to you but only broad minded and open minded person can understand.
**
[/quote]

One can only laugh at the irony in this statement.

Watcher

You say what? Your own religion does not teach you to be equal Rani. Your own religion does not see hindus are equals.

Please stay with Islam, you have no idea what you are talking about. Keep repeating Islam gives power to women and you will start believing it...don't bother to explain anything you and your broadminded brother can explain to each other, i can read Quran...

P.s. i wrote the post for arai's benefit, since i am not broad minded enough you stay out of any future discussions.

[This message has been edited by Rani (edited October 17, 2000).]

Munza,

Sorry, i cannot jump everytime my name is called...i simply don't have time and inclination to repeat myself hundred times and be dragged into questions which have been discussed many times, regardless of the topic on hand. Most of the Indians have grown fed up with constant repeation, they have quit answering, are not coming on the forum.

I have other life beside this forum and i don't relish the abuses and name calling that come along with each and every discussion. I don't want any sermonizing or advice from you...you can participate in whatever you want....stop telling me what to do.

[This message has been edited by Rani (edited October 17, 2000).]

Is no alcohol a matter of policy in Sikhism? I think no-tobacco is specifically mentioned. There is no mention about alcohol. That is what Sikhs told me. So u dont find Sikhs smoking thogh a non-drinking Sikh is hard to find.

No-pork!!! Not true at all. I dont think there is any such restriction in Sikhism.

Any type of Nasha is prohibited in Sikhism including tobacoo and sharab. Ullo, it is interesting how muslims interpret Qoran to mean that Sharab is prohibited but tobacoo is allowed while Sikhs do the other way around:) It is perfect example of how people can interpret/modify their faith to suit their lifestyle.

You are right about pork. There is no distinction between meats...they are all the same. Pork is not specifically prohibited in Sikhism as anyother type of meat is not specifically prescribed either.

There are lot of Sikhs who don't drink at all. Ullo sahib I am one:)

Rani,

tsk, tsk, tsk.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

I haven’t called you any names.

Rani’s statement to one person..

*P.s. i wrote the post for arai’s benefit, since i am not broad minded enough you stay out of any future discussions. *

Rani’s statement to someone else

you can participate in whatever you want…stop telling me what to do.

do unto others as you would have others do unto you

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

But rani did have one point, the indian participation on this website has decreased.
Did they realize it was pak.org and not india.org

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

khi khi khi

sigh what a day

Welcome to gupshup arai!

I hope Rani helps you better understand Sikhism.

I like your attitude it is strikingly different from most other ignorant sikhs here.

As you learn more about your religion, try to learn more about Islam too. Judge both of them by yourself! You will soon understand.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

I hope that the true God brings you closer to him.

AOA,
Yahya


Allah knows best…

[This message has been edited by prince_x (edited October 17, 2000).]

Thankyou Partypooper for enlightening us all on Sikhism.

[quote]
Originally posted by ChannMahi:
**Any type of Nasha is prohibited in Sikhism including tobacoo and sharab. Ullo, it is interesting how muslims interpret Qoran to mean that Sharab is prohibited but tobacoo is allowed while Sikhs do the other way around:) It is perfect example of how people can interpret/modify their faith to suit their lifestyle.

You are right about pork. There is no distinction between meats...they are all the same. Pork is not specifically prohibited in Sikhism as anyother type of meat is not specifically prescribed either.

There are lot of Sikhs who don't drink at all. Ullo sahib I am one:)**
[/quote]

Yes ChannMahi, you are very right!

Islam has prohibited everything that is intoxicating and that is of harm to one's self. Therefore tobacco and smoking is HARAM.

A lot of Scholars here in Saudi Arabia have emphasized that alot, it is a pity to see that Muslims don't care. I personally think that it is very obvious that Smoking is Haram.

AOA,

Yahya


Allah knows best...

Fraudia

Did they realize it was pak.org and not india.org *khi khi khi*

I think you should preach your pakistani brothers "do onto......" charity should start at home. In my opinion they need your preaching more than I need it. Anyways I don't believe in Pirs etc....therefore don't waste your time. Read the posts i was replying to you will get the answer...your brother watcher has been calling all indians close minded (generalizing as you love to call it)and abusing hinduism constantly. Next time read all the posts before you start preaching.

As for your Khi Khi Khi....i am very happy for you, enjoy your Pakistani forum.......i am glad that indians have decided to minimize their participation...Khi Khi Khi...

[This message has been edited by Rani (edited October 17, 2000).]

Rani,

Why do your posts always smell of resentment? You want the right to your opinion...doesn't everyone else deserve the same right?

doesn't everyone else deserve the same right?

I never said they don't....what is your point.

Rani dear, you seem to have only one mission when you come here; that is to misrepresent and misintrepret Islam and give rise to your fallen religion. Well, I have a message for you: You are failing pretty badly. You think you are right, doesn’t matter if other person is talking on basis of facts. I don’t think its worth it to debate with you about your own religion, Islam is far off.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Take it easy.

Astro sir jii, I am glad you got a laugh. It gives me great feeling, when I see someone smiling.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

PS: You are entitle to your opinion, but on the basis of truth, not to shed falseness on something that is proven truth. I hope you may understand and take this as a lesson and not a personal attack. Thank you.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Take it easy miss.


V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

[This message has been edited by The Watcher (edited October 17, 2000).]