Misconceptions about Wahabies spread by fellow guppos

[prince_x]

My dear brother Azam and AhmadG,

My reply to you is the same as both of yor posts regarding wahabis were the same.

I understand your feelings very well as I have encountered a lot of people who think like you.

Before I proceed further lets make one thing clear:

I AM NOT A WAHABI, OR MEMBER OF ANY ** SECT **!!

I believe that the great scholars of the schools of thought, tried to interpret Islam the best way they could. All great scholars accepted and agreed to the fact that they are not 100% right.

This basically means that you do NOT have to stick to a sect and start criticising other sects. Abdul Wahab may be right on one point and Imam Hanafi on another. One should follow them according to what he thinks is right. They will not take responsibility for what you do!

Islamic knowledge is vital for a healthy and peaceful life, Islam is a way of life, and the one who understands it the best lives the best life. So anyone who has a good knowledge of the Holy Book can, by doing a good study of the scholars teachings, find the right deen.

Sectarian practices are the main reason why we have so many sects flourishing, no one understands that Islam is a single religion. Only One way of life.

Azam posted:
**
1- To them it’s Haram to say (Ya Muhammad)
-And there’s Hadith called the Hadith of the blind man, Prophet Muhammad taught a blind man to say Du^a’ and in it “..
Ya Muhammad..”
**

If the Haidth is right it basically is telling us to

Believe that Allah is the only God, meaning that he is the Only Protector, the Only Helper and the Only one who has power to fulfill a dua…YET,ask Muhammad instead of Allah, by saying " ** O Muhammed ** help me in …" during dua!

Firstly, You cannot talk to someone who has died.

Secondly, Muhammad (may ALLAH’s bellesing be upon him) is a mere servant of Allah as is testified by everyone in the shahadah, how can he help us, except by Allah’s will?

Azam posted:
**
2- They say, it’s shirk (Kufur, Blasphemy) to visit the grave of the Prophet in Al Madinah.
-The Prophet said that whomever visits me, I will intercede for him on the day of Judgment.
**

I live in Saudi Arabia, I very well know what they say. You have slightly misinterpreted them.

They say that visiting the grave of the Prophet is not wrong, but you should not do so, for the purpose of asking him to plead to Allah for you.

The hadith might be right, but there is also another hadith which states that the Prophet said that all the graves should be leveled and there should not be identification on a grave.

If the two are combined the real meaning of the Hadith would be: Visit me as long as I am alive, and I will intercede for you on the day of Judgment.

The simple thing is that once someone is dead he cannot listen to you.

Azam posted:
**
3- They say it’s shirk to make tabarruk and tawassul to the Prophet.
-Tabarruk and tawassul, seeking blessings from Allah by the virtue of the Prophet is permissible. Sahabah taught us to do so in different ways. Not worshiping graves and rocks as they claim.
**

Could you please explain me how you proposed the fact that Sahaba told us to do so, i would really appreciate refrences to authetic hadiths.

Frankly, I really do not understand how you can seek Allah’s blessing by the virtue of the prophets, please explain me.

Allah can listens to all his prophets, all angels, and all of His others creations Himself. He doesnot need someone to plead for the other.

Azam posted:
**
4- They say whhabies are the only true Muslims, in the book of their leader Muhammad bin ^abdilwahhab, he says
"humanity blasphemed..)
-Prophet Muhammad said that there will always be people of Haq on the face of earth and they are the majority.
**

No one ever said that Abdul Wahab was totally right!, and how do you know what he meant by that, he was probably talking about Najd, where probably, the majorty blasphemed.

Azam posted:
**
5- They say that doing Mawlid or Milad-un-Nabiyy is haram.
-Muslims worldwide make Mawlids consisting: Recitation of Qur’an, Islamic Chants, Speech about the biography of the
Prophet. I don’t see anything haram in that. The first man who initiated Mawlid, was Al Mudhaffar Hakim Irbil, He was a
great leader and scholar thousands of Muslims including scholars came to Mawlid and approved it.
**

Milad-un-Nabiyy is basically celebrating the birthday of the prophet Muhammed(saw), it doesnot matter what is done on the day, it is wrong. Celebrating a birthday was not known to the Muslims community or the Sahaba until later when the christians introduced it. The prophet Muhammed(saw) never told us to do so and thus it is Bidat.

Besides picking out a special day for Ibadah is also wrong, and it is Bidat. Ibadah should not be confined to a special ocassion but should be done whenever it is suitable.

Azam posted:
**
6- They celebrate the birth of their foundation. That’s when their Madhab was made up.
Subhanallah, To them Prophet Muhammad is not worthy.
**

How come I never saw or heard anyone here in Saudi Arabia doing so?

Even if the few ‘Wahabies’ you know do such a thing, it is wrong as we all know. Please do not generalize, let me assure you that I have never come about such a practice in SA.

Azam posted:
**
7- One of Their leader came to destroy the tomb of Prophet Muhammad, and that’s when he got blinded.
-Some of the wahhabies that negate the fact that they are wahhabies:
Ibn Taymiah, was before them.
Bin baz, Died Alhamdulillah.
Al Albaniyy, claims he is a scholar.
Al Qaradawi, trying to be poplular
Abdur-Rahman Dimashqiah, trying to be poplular…
**

You are basically saying that he got blinded because of his intentions to destroy the tomb?, I don’t really think that you have the “Ilm al Ghaib” to conclude on such a matter

If you do not personally approve of the scholars teachings, because you have a better understanding of Islam, I still do not think that such sarcasm is right.

If you think that they are conveying a wrong message, please prove them wrong, I will be very interested in your teachings.

Azam posted:
**
8- They say it’s haram to recite Al Fatiha to the dead Muslims!!!
-Subhanallah, maybe that’s why they said all humanity blasphemed. Al Hamdulillah that Prophet Muhammad taught us
to recite Al Fatiha and Yasseen to the dead..
**

When you mean recite, you are basically saying pray for them by reciting fatiha for them, if so then let me remind you that all wahabies pray Namaze-jinazah.

However, they do say that when you visit the graveyard you should pray for all dead people as a whole rather than you particular relative.

Azam posted:
**
7- Prophet Muhammad said “May Allah bless Sham (Jordan, Syria, Lebanon…) and Yemen”
Sahabah asked, and our Najd ya rassullallah?
Prophet said “May Allah bless Sham (Jordan, Syria, Lebanon…) and Yemen”
Sahabah asked, and our Najd ya rassullallah?
Prophet said “May Allah bless Sham (Jordan, Syria, Lebanon…) and Yemen” three times and said the from Najd, lots of
calamities and fitan will occur. Muhammad son of ^abdilwahhab was a major fitnah.
**

You got confused with your numbering, this was supposed to be number nine.

Anyway, I really do not know anything about the son of abdul wahab and I would really like you to educate me.

Azam posted:
**
8- They say Allah is in the sky as the jews believe.

• Allah does not need anything, angels are in the skies. Allah exists without a place.

9- Ibn Taymiah says that Helfire and Paradise are not real all sensual feelings.
That’s is brought from nowhere.
**

Like I said earlier, no one is totally right, and the phrase that Allah is on the sky is not to be taken literally. You are right that Allah is everywhere.

[prince_x]

AhmadG and Azam, I am still waiting for your reply...

[CoolDude]

I'd be very interested in reading the replies too.

Jazakallah

[Degas]

I think I agree with prince_x in this regard. Bidah is going to graves and asking favors or putting pictures of tombs or attributing other signs for the purpose of worship or relating them to holy figures. This bidah is practices by a fraction of both shia and sunni sects.

[Kajoor]

[quote]
Originally posted by prince_x:
**

I believe that the great scholars of the schools of thought, tried to interpret Islam the best way they could. All great scholars accepted and agreed to the fact that they are not 100% right.

This basically means that you do NOT have to stick to a sect and start criticising other sects. Abdul Wahab may be right on one point and Imam Hanafi on another. One should follow them according to what he thinks is right. They will not take responsibility for what you do!

**
[/quote]

I also like to add that when we stand before Allah(swt) on the day of judgement, we will be judged on the path we choose for ourselves, the decision we made for ourselves and not which sect or scholar we followed. We alone will be standing before Allah (swt) and no one else will be in our corner defending us.

Ws

Willing to listen and learn.

[prince_x]

Well I am eagerly waiting for AhmadG’s reply..

Azam probably just comes here to mess about..did you know that he owns three or more nicks and whenever he posts a topic he comes up with another nick and replys with a "Good post

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif

" message.

I really dont know what these guys get by promoting sectarian fitna.

[CoolDude]

I don't know what they get out of it either.

At work, we have a prayer room, in which Sunni's and Shia's pray together. Sure, we understand each others differences, but we stand next to each other and pray to the same Allah. We make sajood to the same Allah, and we make dua to the same Allah. Allah knows best and inshallah we will find out on the day of judgement any errors of our ways.

There are people on this forum who try to create this hatred between Sunni's and Shia's. They won't reply to this thread as it would mean replying to a very rational post. I'm sure they are quite content posting their cut and pastes and not having to think about them.

[CoolDude]

still no response?

come on guys.

[Ahmad_G]

[quote]
Originally posted by prince_x:
I really dont know what these guys get by promoting sectarian fitna.
[/quote]

Allahu Akbar for your Iftira' (Allegation)!! I will not tolerate that a bit because whoever has nothing to say, starts to speak like that..

To those who are opposing, Read this hadith that prooves the first issue opposed, and see how the lovers of the Prophet do what they do from deeds that comply with the religion entirely. Read if you will, In Al-Mu^jam Al-Kabir and Al-Mu^jam As­Saghir, Imam at-Tabaraniyy related the hadith about the Prophet from the route of ^Uthman Ibn Hunayf who was in a circle with the Prophet when a blind man came to address Prophet Muhammad, sallallahu alayhi wa sallam:

The blind man addressed the Prophet by saying, "O Prophet of Allah, ask Allah for me to cure my blindness." The Prophet replied by saying, "If you wish, you would be patient with your calamity, and if you wish, I will ask Allah to cure your blindness."

However, the blind man told the Prophet: "The loss of my sight is a great hardship for me, and there is no one near to guide me around."

At this moment, the Prophet ordered the man to go to the place where al-wudu' would be performed, perform al­wudu', pray two rak^ah, end his salat by saying as-salamu ^alaykum, and then say the following words:

which mean: <> The blind man went and did as the Prophet ordered. Shortly thereafter, he returned to the Prophet's session with his blindness cured.

It's not haram to say I don't know when you don't know, but it is haram to say I know when you don't know. So there is the proof, don't come to us saying "I think", "If the hadith is true", "if you are right".. If you think I have mistaken somewhere, proove it through the Islamic prooves not through your thoughts.. (I'm taling to whoever is negating)

Also, after the death of the Prophet, and during the time of the caliphate of ^Uthman Ibn ^Affan, a man came to ^Uthman Ibn Hunayf. This man complained to ^Uthman Ibn Hunayf about a matter which he needed to be fulfilled through the caliph, but which was not being fulfilled. ^Uthman Ibn Hunayf ordered the man to go to the place where al-wudu' would be performed, perform al-wudu', perform two rak^ah, and after saying as­salam to say the following words: 'O Allah, I ask You and I direct myself to You in supplication by our Prophet Muhammad, the Prophet of Mercy. O Muhammad, I direct myself to Allah by you, so my need [specify need] would be fulfilled.

^Uthman Ibn Hunayf told him to return after doing this, and they would go together to the caliph. This man went and performed what ^Uthman Ibn Hunayf ordered him to do. However, instead of returning to ^Uthman Ibn Hunayf, he elected to go on his own to the caliph--which he did. When he reached the door of the caliph, the gateman took him by the hand to the caliph. ^Uthman Ibn ^Affansat him on a carpet next to him and asked him, "What is your need that you wanted fulfilled? I forgot all about it until just now." The man informed the caliph about his need, which he fulfilled. The caliph told him, "Whenever you have a need, come to me and I will satisfy it for you."

It is because of the prayer this man performed, and the du^a' that he made--asking Allah for his need by the Prophet--that Allah made the heart of the caliph move towards fulfilling the need of that man. This prayer and the du^a' afterwards in which one is asking Allah to fulfill a need is called 'Salat al-Hajah'. Let the one who has a need: perform al-wudu', pray two rak^ah, and then say that du^a' as mentioned, and in sha' Allah, his need will be fulfilled.

This hadith was narrated by many scholars of hadith. Some of them related the part of the hadith which occurred during the lifetime of the Prophet, and some narrated both parts of the hadith, i.e., the part which took place during the lifetime of the Prophet and the part which took place after his death and during the caliphate of Sayyidina ^Uthman Ibn ^Affan. Imam at­Tabaraniyy is among those scholars who narrated the entire hadith, in both parts--the part that took place during the life of the Prophet, as well as the part that took place after the death of the Prophet. After narrating that hadith, he said, "The classification of this hadith is sahih."

This hadith carries the proof that it is permissible in Islam for one to ask Allah for things by the Prophet during the lifetime of the Prophet and after the death of the Prophet. Hence, there is no difference in the permissibility of asking Allah for things by the Prophet, whether done during the lifetime of the Prophet or after his death. The scholars of Ahl as-Sunnah wal Jama^ah said that it is permissible to make that tawassul during the lifetime of the Prophet and after his death. Knowing that, one concludes that the claim of some people that it is not permissible to ask Allah for things except by he who is alive and present, is something which is rejected.

The first person to make this false claim was a man who lived some 600 years ago, by the name of Ahmad Ibn Taymiyah. This man falsely stated that it is not permissible to ask Allah for things except by he who is alive and present. This is wrong! It is contrary to what is stated in the rules of the Religion of Islam. During the time of Ahmad Ibn Taymiyah, scholars of Ahl as-Sunnah refuted his argument, and as a result his false claim did not spread at that time. However, some 200 years ago, a man named Muhammad Ibn Abdul-Wahhab emerged in a place in the Arabian Peninsula called Najd which the Prophet dispraised. Al-Bukhariyy related a hadith about the Prophet in which he said:

This means: <> The Prophet conveyed the truth. Many tribulations and sedition have occurred from that region. Among the most recent was this man by the name ofMuhammad Ibn ^Abdul-Wahhab. Muhammad Ibn ^Abdul-Wahhab followed Ahmad Ibn Taymiyah in the aforementioned case and in other cases as well. He started repeating the false statement of Ibn Taymiyah that it is not permissible for one to ask Allah for things except by he who is alive and present. This rule has no foundation whatsoever in the Religion of Allah. Rather, this rule and this statement were innovated by Ahmad Ibn Taymiyah­­an innovation of misguidance.

As a result of their stubbornness and arrogance, the leaders of the Wahhabiyyah movement rejected the part of the hadith which signifies the man asking Allah for things by the Prophet, after the Prophet's death. The great scholars of Ahl as-Sunnah told these people that the scholars classified that entire hadith as sahih, i.e., the part that took place during the lifetime of the Prophet and the part that took place after his death. Hence, one must reject the false claim of Ibn Taymiyah and Muhammad Ibn ^Abdul-Wahhab,because it stands against the sayings of those reliable and dependable scholars of hadith. Al­Hafidhat­Tabaraniyy narrated that hadith, among others, including al-Hafidh al-Bayhaqiyy and al-Hafidhas­Subkiyy and al­Hafidhal-^Ala'iyy; they all classified it as sahih. The status of those huffadh, i.e., their high knowledge and high level in the Science of Hadith,is a case of unanimous agreement among the scholars of Islam.

However, those Wahhabis, in an attempt to back their stubbornness and their false claim, rejected the sahihhadith of the Prophet; may Allah protect us from such misguidance. They refuted and rejected that which was proved to be mentioned by the Companions. It is obvious they are not following a correct methodology on their part. What is correct is for one to follow the path of the Prophet and the path of his Companions. One must adhere to that which the Prophet prescribed, and that which was put forth by the Companions, and one does not adhere to the example of someone deluded about things.

There are other ahadith that stand as a proof to the validity and the correctness of the statements of Ahl as­Sunnah...

So, that's the clarification for that taken from where? from the Ahadith that are approved by the scholars. So, we are following the Prophet, Sahabah and true scholars of Ahlus-Sunnah, for those who oppose, who are they following?!!

Are you going to admit to the facts, and say yes I have just learned, and will justify my wrongness, or what?!!

[CoolDude]

[quote]
Orignally posted by Ahmed G:
..What is correct is for one to follow the path of the Prophet and the path of his Companions. One must adhere to that which the Prophet prescribed, and that which was put forth by the Companions, and one does not adhere to the example of someone deluded about things...
[/quote]

Where does it state in Islam that we should follow the prophets companions? Could you give me the Surah, and ayat number.

Jazakallah

[Ahmad_G]

Ya Lateef! I could give you the proof and the ayat, but if you are saying that we don't have to follow the companions, than don't waste my time and have a nice day somewhere else!!

[CoolDude]

The companions were very important

Hazrat Ali, Hazrat Umar, Hazrat Aisha, Hazrat Bilal, Hazrat Abu Bakr, and the all the rest of the Prophets companions (may Allah be pleased with them)

I respect all of them, and I follow Quran and the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammed (PBUH).

I didn't realise speaking about Islam was wasting your time. Patience is important brother.

Do Carry on.

Jazakallah

[Musalman]

[quote]
Originally posted by prince_x:
Islamic knowledge is vital for a healthy and peaceful life, Islam is a way of life, and the one who understands it the best lives the best life. So anyone who has a good knowledge of the Holy Book can, by doing a good study of the scholars teachings, find the right deen.
[/quote]

Find the right deen, brother prince_x actually meant "find the right Mazhab" there is only one Deen "Al Islam"

[This message has been edited by Musalman (edited December 06, 2000).]

[Ahmad_G]

[quote]
Originally posted by CoolDude:
Do Carry on.

Jazakallah**
[/quote]

I'm not wasting time talking about Islam, but don't like those who argue.

Masha'llah. I'm happy that you do respect the companions. But if you are indicating that you don't need them, don't think that without them you would have known anything about the relgion! they are the ones that passed that to you! May Allah be pleased with all of them.

And know that I will not carry on untill the first point is clarified to you and that you give your response to it whether you accept it or not!.

O, intnersting interests: "Fast Cars and Thez Women!" as I checked under your interests "who"..

[CoolDude]

Thanks, they are my part time hobby, esp cars!! and I sincerely hope you have a sense of humour. In case you haven’t, my real name isn’t CoolDude

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

Ok, your first point, you wrote a lot there. Why don’t you summarise in a few clear concise points and I will let you know if I agree or disagree with them? I’ll also give you any points I have about them. If you provide ayats or hadith, please post them with references so I may check them out.

Jazkallah

[prince_x]

Brother Ahmad G,

First of all, please don't get agitated, I dont mean to argue with you or 'fight' with you on this topic. I just want to resolve it in a peaceful manner, like the way our Prophet (saw) has taught us.

I understand your point of view also, but I would not be so hasty to risk going to hell just for ONE hadith, which is no where to be found in Sahih al Bukhari or Sahih-al-Muslim; well atleast I couldn't find them, and so I would really appreciate a hadith number which is in compliance with the normal numbering followed by most of us.

Well, lets study this hadith clearly:

• O Muhammad, I direct myself to Allah by you, so my need [here the specific need is mentioned] would be fulfilled *

Direct myself to Allah ** * by you * ** ?

How could you direct yourself to Allah(sw) * through * Muhammed (may Allah(sw)'s blessings be upon him)?

Please explain...

Let me also remind you that in the above mentioned part of the dua, you are addressing your need to Prophet Muhammed(saw) instead of Allah(sw).

*
O Allah, I ask You, and I direct myself to You in supplication by our Prophet Muhammad, the Prophet of Mercy *

I'm sure that you must have read the phrase 'Arham-ur-Raahimin' in the Quran several times, it is is an attribute of Allah(sw) and means:

• The MOST Merciful of those who show mercy -

Why would Allah(sw) need the Prophet(saw) to plead for us, inorder for him to be merciful?

Isn't Allah's unlimited mercy enough?, Isn't He enough as a disposer of affairs, why would he need a pleader??

Wouldn't He answer us if we asked Him directly?

I hope you answer my questions soon...for the sake of us both. I pray to the Most Merciful to guide both of us to the straight path. (Aameen)

Assalmo Alaikhum,

Prince X

[Ahmad_G]

[quote]
Originally posted by prince_x:
**Brother Ahmad G,
.....

Why would Allah(sw) need the Prophet(saw) to plead for us, inorder for him to be merciful?

Isn't Allah's unlimited mercy enough?, Isn't He enough as a disposer of affairs, why would he need a pleader??

Wouldn't He answer us if we asked Him directly?

Prince X**
[/quote]

I'm not disturbed if you are seeking an explanation. Nor will I be hurt if you don't accept the facts.

First of all, you are wrong when you twisted the Du^a that the Prophet taught to that man. Prophet Muhammad taught him to say: O Allah, I ask you by the virtue of Prophet Muhammad, because Muhammad is our Prophet and for being the best of Allah's creations and for being the one who intercedes on the day of judgment. The second part is O Muhammad I ask Allah by your virtue. In this it Prophet Muhammad taught the blind man to say O Muhammad (But not in his face, because they used to say O Rassulallah..) Also the Prophet taught the man to make tawassul by the Prophet Sallallahu ^layhi wassallam which is to ask Allah, Allah will endow his mercy not Prophet Muhammad.

And secondly, no doubt to any Muslim that Allah does not need any of his creations, he doesn't need us, he doesn't need any of the Prophets either nor Angels, he exists without needing a place as well.

When Allah sent the Angels to teach the Propehts and sent the Prophets to teach the humans, doesn't mean Allah needed them, Allah is able to make every one on the same path, but he sent the Prophets. So, he doesn't need them, and he is still the mercy.

Also, who will intercede for the sinners on the day of judgment? Prophet Muhammad will intercede for the sinners to Allah. He will ask Allah to decrease their punishment and to save them from helfire, Allah does not need the Prophet, and Allah will not change his will because of the intercession of the Prophet, but Allah willed eternally every single thing, and Allah knew eternally who will commit Kufur, who will embrace Islam, and who the Prophets will intercede to and all of the Knowledge.

Just because Propeht Muhammad intercedes, and Allah forgives, doens't mean that Allah needed the intercession...

and the reference to what I have mentioned is posted as clear as could be, if you have not learned enough doesn't make what you didn't know non-existent!! read in Al-Mu^jam Al-Kabir (A book)and Al-Mu^jam As­Saghir (A book), Imam at-Tabaraniyy (A Scholar) related the hadith (A saying of the Prophet)about the Prophet from the route of ^Uthman Ibn Hunayf...

So it's your duty to acquire knowledge before passign judgments, other wise you will fall into the saying of the Propeht which means: "Whomever passes an Islamic issue without knowledge, the angels of the heavens will damn him"..

I ask Allah to grant us the sincere intention to accept the truth and to make us knowledgable about the relgion.